Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[Datisi]

vote count 4.07

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-12-30 17:30:00).

yeet

Herta [3]:

skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer

Val89 [2]:

innocentvillager, MathBlade

Firebringer [1]:

Freedom

Ydrasse [1]:

Herta

not voting [3]:

Ydrasse,

Toto

, Val89

mod notes

~ skitter30 v/la fridays/saturdays
~ freedom v/la from 24.12. to 1.1.
~ this is a mod note

flavour

[Datisi]

nudging Freedom.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Freedom

[innocentvillager]

fuck it.

VOTE: herta
no jailkeep tonight.

IV dont u want to know if skitter scumread on herta is right.
I am dying to find out

Still don’t get ur herta read
Where is pooky associations with herta that is scum
It seems like this is forced read

Skitter’s post alone made you go from here to here…? If not then why are you on Herta now and why do are you dying to see this flip?

[Herta]

Herta can you tell me a bit more about your scumgame vs town game - and why from your point of view you are town this game, and should we be able to see it

I'm apparently scummy regardless of my alignment. I think I have more direct mannerisms than a lot of people are used to and that doesn't read as friendly as people are used to here. But I get run up fairly regularly no matter what. I think pooky is probably right in his analysis that I'm more wooden as scum, but I don't really see it. So I don't know what to tell you.

Looking at votes

Pooky's scoliosis push pretty quickly faded. He riled up everyone and unwnd votes sco in 458, Pooky at 459, Toto at 498, Herta at 508,. Then unwnd unvotes at 512 and Pooky unvotes at 555. At 557 Pooky says he's going to go back to scoliosis and he goes on to vote geraintm at 794 and just kind of drops the scoliosis push altogether while still talking smack about him.

Skitter votes me at 38 for reasons I still don't understand, unvotes at 462 because there's no wagon, and then revotes me at 607. She has pretty much sheeped Dann's case on me, which isn't a good one.

KittyTacky is doing what I would expect a town KittyTacky to do, tunnel on his initial read, which is scum!scoliosis who he voted at 11 and hasn't moved of of.

Ydra hasn't voted for anyone other than Pooky at 335 and then an unvote at 465. I don't remember Ydra being so uncommital but I don't remember a lot about their play in general.

Freedom has made one vote, geraintm at 722, and hasn't really committed to anything.

It took Val a long time to move off of his skitter vote at 106, when he voted scoliosis at 930, despite the obvious fact that there has been no will to wagon skitter all Day.

Geraintm has an RVS vote on me at 44, that he says is RVS but if you look at the post it doesn't look like RVS. No commitment to anything from him.

Dannflor's vote record looks okay: unwnd at 167 (could be RVS), Pooky at 419, Herta at 520, scoliosis at 749, geraintm at 866, and scoliosis again at 929, and the more I look at it the votes on unwnd, Pooky and Herta weren't really wagon votes so I think he looks better than what I had the impression of.

scoliosis doesn't look opportunistic, Val at 20, ydra at 41, skitter at 284, pooky at 468, unwnd at 551 and geraintm at 579. None of them were being wagoned except for the vote on ydra(church) was starting a wagon, and the vote on geraintm was the second vote.

Innocent Villager voted me at 79, pooky at 104 and geraintm at 107 with an unvote at 871. There's nothing scummy.

unwnd votes scoliosis at 458 after Pooky's case and unvotes at 512 when scoliosis says something to change their mind, geraintm at 753 sheeping IV with an unvote at 945.

I'd have KittyTacky and Innocentvillager as town. Maybe Val, Dann, unwnd as null town. geraintm as null scummish, freedom as null, Ydra as null, scoliosis as null scummish, Pooky as null scummish. Skitter as scum.

There's nothing really distinct btween Ydra and freedom. I could see being very wrong on Dann, unwnd and/or Pooky. My pool for today would be geraintm, scoliosis and skitter.

Also, this was your big notes post a while ago, after scum pooky prompted you to provide some thoughts. You said you were working on these notes. Did you stop taking notes/do you have other notes to share with us?

I was working on this, you're right. I was tracking all the votes from Day 1 or whatever Day that was in Excel and was working off of that. I forgot about it sometime during that Night so I haven't updated anything. For me to track the rest of the votes and work like I was might be a little ambitious.

[Toto]

Where did you get that definition?

~

this setup is publicly rated as complex. you can read about what that means here.

[MathBlade]

Oh…so Fire can be town.

Ewww. There’s still a ridiculous amount of hurdles and unlikely but it’s at least possible

UNVOTE:

[innocentvillager]

I’m kinda down to just kill Freedom today.

[Toto]

Ydra town then?

[innocentvillager]

I feel a little better about her I guess? Not 100% but she feels fine atm to me.

[innocentvillager]

I think some of the Freedom townread was really just liking his playstyle of poking around and seeming uninformed. In retrospect a lot of that feels fakeable and past that I don’t really think I have another amazing reason to TR him. And given the state of the PoE it’s where I feel the least anxiety about flipping I guess

[MathBlade]

I have a work fire to handle. May be ghostly invisible.

[innocentvillager]

I know it’s holidays but we are getting close to the point in time where we might not be able to switch wagons to someone else if we wait too long

Think we need to make some decisions soon

[Herta]

Is Freedom who you are landing on IV?

[Ydrasse]

mmmmm
freedom spent a game recently relying a lot on wolf team for assistance and them basically coaching his play a bit idk how that would impact this game

[Ydrasse]

dumb thought but i think while note taking and info gathering is p nai i want to think herta would feel a little more shame in saying @yeah i gave up”
also i’ve never seen anyone admit to like vote tracking in excel lol

[innocentvillager]

Is Freedom who you are landing on IV?

I think for the most part yeah, unless something else happens or I change my mind

[innocentvillager]

mmmmm
freedom spent a game recently relying a lot on wolf team for assistance and them basically coaching his play a bit idk how that would impact this game

It could be that Pooky suggested Freedom just act uninformed and vibey/non agenday so he can keep townbinning him? Not that I gib lots of weight to this just a theory

[innocentvillager]

Note that Herta is not realistically scum with skitter, Fire, or Kitty, given that they’ve been parked on him and the game state has been fairly dead and scum bussing here at this stage with lots of townies and when we are all confused seems pretty dumb.

[innocentvillager]

dumb thought but i think while note taking and info gathering is p nai i want to think herta would feel a little more shame in saying @yeah i gave up”
also i’ve never seen anyone admit to like vote tracking in excel lol

Maybe for some ppl it’s NAI but I would be super shocked if on average it actually is NAI

Herta doesn’t exactly seem like a scum master strategist I guess based on his play? I could be wrong but that’s my impression.

But besides that I didn’t understand your point here

[Ydrasse]

mobile posting zzz

i think the excel vote tracking is a weird embellishment to think of as wolf is the point i’m not typing it out twice

[Ydrasse]

is freedom more of least towny vote than it is a wolfy vote because i struggle to like
idk i guess the worst thing i can pin to freedom is just seems curious and questioning but the stances don’t come often

[innocentvillager]

Least towny

[Herta]

dumb thought but i think while note taking and info gathering is p nai i want to think herta would feel a little more shame in saying @yeah i gave up”
also i’ve never seen anyone admit to like vote tracking in excel lol

I like finding excuses to use Excel.

[skitter30]

Freedom is kind of a hero shot. He has no interactions with anyone really at least none that mean anything I don't think. So his flip is wasted if green bc no associations. I don't it but I'd rather someone who gives us an idea of rest of team.

@skitter this is the sort of comment I don’t really see coming from scum. Idk I don’t feel like scum talk about slots in this way.

I'm okay with doing but this is one of the more interesting games I've been in.

Herta is town scum dont say shit like this lol

Bro idk why but when I read (and even now just on reread) these two posts of Herta I just can’t for the life of me figure out why scum would say something like this

It sounds so dumb but my gut is saying town for these posts alone, especially the second one

i don't think either of these are particularly townie, and i don't get any townie vibes when i read them

i feel like i've been trying to get herta for most of this game and instead we've taken a series of detours on a whole bunch of other people that i thought were town, which was annoyign and somewhat frustrating. i want herta. i think they're scummy, and i think they look aligned with pooky. none of that has changed at any point in the last eighty pages or whatever you cited, and i still want to flip them.

Pooky could’ve just had TMI on Herta and saw things in his town game than uninformed players wouldn’t?

i dont' know why pooky lol-defends herta but goes after scol and gera - from his pov if herta is town they should be in the same sort of bucket as scol and gera and the same sort of misflip. he repeatedly chose not to take that option. that makes a lot of sense to me if they're aligned, and idk why he played this way if they aren't

So in order for this to work out, Pooky needs to make the decision in a few minutes to rush Herta on his catch-up notes and give him an opportunity to towntell. Which like, fine, it could happen, but a) why didn’t Herta check in with the scum PT before just doing it? The other wagon was Scoliosis who is also town, so there was no rush to E1 gera and b) why does scum Herta have all those notes basically done if he’s not planning on theatering with Pooky?

i don't find this interaction particularly unlikely at all, and idk why it needs to have been part of the 'plan' or why you think pooky/herta would necessarily be checking in a scum PT for a plan here - we know at this point that both gera and scol were town and that it looks like one or the other would be the flip that day - this wasn't a particularly critical or sensitive juncture for scum, i'm not sure why you think they would need to coordinate this and predicating the rest of the analysis on that assumption

like i'm not sure why you think scum are 'rushing' or need to 'plan' here or why this interaction needs to have been prepared theater

The Occam’s razor of what’s going on there is Herta is an E1 happy person and

Pooky saw an opportunity to posture/pretend he was helping town by slowing down the leading wagon when all the wagons were on town anyway.

He didn’t expect Herta to actually come up with a townish looking wall so he felt like with his trajectory he had to called Herta town later, even if he had TMId him at the beginning

like i agree with the bolded but i dont' think it has townie-implications for herta in the way you're reading it

One thing that gives me pause is Pooky is 100% capable of hard defending a partner, I saw it once in Team Mafia 2021 where he literally defended his partner Kanna and yelled at the town about how bad they were during her twilight, lol. So Pooky could’ve felt that he was good enough to bullshit some vibe townread on his scum partner Herta.

yes, that's my point

~
assorted other thoughts:

i would flip freedom as well
i disagree with most of val's analysis but end of the day i don't think they're scum unless it's with exactly, like, fire and i think there's scummy enough slots elsewhere that this isn't where i'm willing to start

~

i'm finding the mechanics mess somewhat difficult to sort through, and there's enough missing information that i don't think it's really possible to understand scum's motivations or draw significant conclusions out of many of the night actions as we don't actually know where the kills went or where they were trying to target - we're living in a world where we're seriously considering possibilities of scum no-killing multiple nights

like yes a rolestopper could have been used on me, sure. there's no evidence of that existing but it's abt as good as a theory as anything else at this point