New Year Dance Party [afterparty]

[Save The Dragons]

I guess I'd like to see receipts on how he got there

[fireisredsir]

Ty

That better not be a pocket attempt because I would cry

it could be but it isn't this time

you can cry if you want to for the hypothetical universe where i am scum in which i would probably also make that post

[Meuh]

I think option 2 is the most likely by a fair margin, because I can't really find a real incentive for Ari to be protecting her teammate at that point in time, especially Ausuka. and the alternative of Ari/Shirou needs to cross the hurdle of Shirou being scum in the first place which I doubt. Plus, this would also mean that Shirou is literally bussing his entire team, which like, bold, and also I'd expect him to be hard towncasing me right now if that was the case because I could always wind up getting scumread and ruining his entire plan. and on top of it all, Ari was scumreading Cakez to try to distance, right? So I'd find it odd for her to take the opposite approach to other teammates.

So I guess Ausuka's probably just town? Like their posting irks me in several ways but interactions with scum are much more meaningful than weird posts so I can't really see scum!Furtive fit into the picture
I honestly entered Ausuka's ISO wanting to end up scumreading them so I could confidently help out Shirou's push but uh, nope
I also wanted to check out every post from Ausuka/Furtive but I don't feel like it anymore, especially now seeing Ari's stance.
If anyone has a different perspective on Ari/Ausuka please do share because those posts speak volumes to me here

i don't think it would be at all unlikely for ari to defend partner ausuka there, and actually imo slightly tilts +scum to me

taking the opposite approach to two different scum partners seems totally reasonable and i don't know why you'd rule it out? i really doubt that just bc ari was bussing cakez that she would bus her whole team. i think scum literally always have incentive to defend their partners, ausuka was picking up a decent amount of suspicion around that point and ari successfully defused shirou's scumread there

in turing test in scum pt ari talked with scum partner roden about a distinct meta tell she thought he had and how he should respond in order to get townread, and then shared the meta tell in thread

she was attacking roden there more i think but then backed off. i think it's very believable that she would defend ausuka especially if they were in communication in the scum pt about what ari believed to be ausuka's meta

Hmm. Yeah I don't think it's impossible for Ari to treat her partners differently. To me the defence felt too soft and lacking enough incentive to really warrant existing as a defence of a partner yknow? But like it did help skew people towards townreading Ausuka (including myself tbh, it didn't erase my fears but seeing Ausuka's meta in relation to her gameplay here did ease me a bit). Plus it's not like scum have an active incentive to every single read they make, Ari could've just thought it was right for her to hop in and do so. But I also don't think scum just drop in to act a certain way towards their partner without a certain intent. and one major distinction between Ausuka and Cakez when it comes to bussing/not bussing is that Cakez was unpaired, Ausuka was paired. So like even if she's thinking of taking different stances, I don't see why she'd attribute those stances to those players when it just helped kill Cakez and now could point to Ausuka as scum.

When it comes to your comparison to Turing Test, a pretty major distinction here is that Shirou's the one who brought up Ausuka's scumminess in the first place, so I doubt Ari had a huge game plan coming into it (unless you think Shirou is also scum), but the aspect of Ari digging into a partner's meta to find a good defence is actually quite interesting and if it's a habit of hers could be meaningful. But aside from that point, your mention of Turing Test doesn't really click with me here

[fireisredsir]

i don't think shirou is also scum, no. but i think ari could have had the convo in advance with ausuka, and maybe prepped her with the point of like "i would expect you to omgus pretty hard on the first person who suspects you btw" and then when it happened she came in ready with the meta case

i don't think it's for sure that it happened that way but i think it's believable having seen how she interacts with her partners and plans around them

[Meuh]

Yeah it is true that scum are especially likely to be survival oriented considering the setup, but also a townread on your partner should make you extra survival focused. Kind of like 2 extremes, it's normal for some townies to be less survival oriented than in a regular game, but it's also normal for some to be more so.
Like I really want to live here because I think Shirou's just town, and having our fates tied together means that my death is extra bad
So it really comes down to justification and I also am interested in Furtive's read on Maria.

[fireisredsir]

part of why i thought ari was scummy d1 was that she was mostly focused on the dance/romance aspect and said she didn't want to take things seriously at all but then there were a couple little moments where it felt like she stepped outside of that role and made a point to push someone away or towards a certain read and the way she did it felt motivated

that was one of those times imo, ill look and remind myself what the others were one sec

[Meuh]

i don't think shirou is also scum, no. but i think ari could have had the convo in advance with ausuka, and maybe prepped her with the point of like "i would expect you to omgus pretty hard on the first person who suspects you btw" and then when it happened she came in ready with the meta case

i don't think it's for sure that it happened that way but i think it's believable having seen how she interacts with her partners and plans around them

Gotcha, that could make sense actually
Though I wonder, do you think it'd make sense for Ari to "equate" Ausuka and Shirou as I put it? If she's scum with one of them I think that's what she tried to do, like make the interaction look T/T to group her partner with a townie in people's minds.

[Save The Dragons]

I guess it's possible furitives survival instincts come from a strong read on mariar

In which case I'm making a grave mistake

[Meuh]

Grave like what you'll be in after we lim you amirite???

[Save The Dragons]

That's gravy

[Save The Dragons]

I will become gravy

[Meuh]

That's a good goal actually, I also wanna be gravy after I die

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler:

Maybe its slightly +town to be so open about all this. his mindset feels very open.

"romance is dead and I'm here to hit on everyone"

Maybe its slightly +town to be so open about all this. his mindset feels very open.

"romance is dead and I'm here to hit on everyone"

who are you talking about here?

tsq

I dont think Shirou's scumread of Ausuka is really scum-motivated because shading in the paired ladies doesnt really help shirou get paired?

If he was scum trying to push a scumread atp I'd expect him to be shading in the unpaired ladies.

I don't think there's a real gain for scum!ausuka to push shirou!town here because if it works, shirou gets left out, and that just signal boosts the scumread on Ausuka?

the comparison you're making shea is different because scum!ausuka in pictures needs to elim you to win the game.

she does bristle as town when she gets pushed

Oh really? That's actually a bummer, it makes it a bit more unlikely that she's scum perhaps. Not yet convinced she isn't though.

this is the last time i pushed ausuka town in d1;

viewtopic.php?p=13463519#p13463519

she is pretty quick on the omgus button

When Shirou and Ausuka were going at it I found Aristeia’s defense of Ausuka towny

I think??? this is a good take: TSQ as scum would not be so present in the thread on New Years Eve?? This might be dumb but if anyone as I was skimming, he kinda seemed the most like an old guy seated out on his front porch to oversee everything and comment on it all… and that sounds fun to do as town and sounds like hard work to do as scum. And idk my gut says scum doesn’t take on hard work on New Years Eve.

Shirou/Ausuka did very little to help me read either of them, but I thought Shirou saying “I made up the scumread so Meuh would pair with me” was lightly scummy

I think the towniest thing tsq did was like signal amplifying on Ausuka immediately after Shirou pushed her because I don't see why mafia would ever do that to their own dance partner because like ??

why does it even matter what Unowen's alignment is to Baltar at that point in time?

Baltar's a lady. Getting a match is more important than checking to make sure the player he's matching with is town.

If Unowen is mafia, he's getting paired with someone regardless of whether Baltar reads him correctly.

Hypothetically speaking if Baltar is town and Unowen is mafia, how does Baltar scumreading Unowen correctly before the pairing really do anything?

Like let's say Baltar reads Unowen and decides Unowen's mafia.

What's he supposed to do then? If he says no I don't want to dance with you, Unowen!Scum just goes and picks another lady and baltar gets flipped and then ???

If Baltar pairs with Unowen and then decides later in the PT that Unowen is mafia, he can just press leave and Unowen gets flipped.

Like I don't really see a scenario where it's better to be picky instead of just grabbing the first proposal that comes your way unless you want to like endgame and everyone thinks you're town.

ok yeah mostly these + the push on cakez were where i felt the vibes

so that's
- defending shea (ausuka and shea are paired at this point)
- pushing that ausuka and shirou are tvt
- again defending shea
- defending baltar

all of these felt off to me at the time and were a part of why i was scumreading ari. the points were correct but the way she was making them felt like it was motivated

i think it's pretty likely that a standard scum approach to this would be to defend the town that is paired with a scum partner. it's easy to do because you can use your tmi powers to push something that is correct, it doesn't actually implicate you for defending scum, and it helps prevent your scum partners from getting eliminated

im slightly talking myself into a furtive scum world here. i think especially that ari's argument with shea, while probably unaligned with shea, is interesting for the fact that she never really pressured shea at all for it or had any sense of a threat of scumreading him due to the argument. some people have said that the argument felt off, and i think it's possible that this is why. not that she's paired with shea, but that she isn't interested in limming him bc his partner was scum

i also think that similarly the defense of baltar could be motivated to protect owen

thoughts?

[furtiveglance]

furtive was very survival focused in datisis cafe but i think he can be that way as town too was kinda what i was thinking when i referenced house of the dragon

it is true here tho that there is less incentive for town to be strictly survival oriented bc its possible your partner can be scum

ig whats hard is sorting through whether furtive's strong townread on maria is out of necessity or if it's a genuine read. if it's a genuine read then it's understandable that he would be survival focused, and i also think it's understandable that he would have that read

Yes I know we're not Masons, but I townread Maria. You guys aren't in our PT, so you don't know.

[Meuh]

Actually you never said you wanted to become gravy, just that you will
Are you happy with that fate?

[furtiveglance]

I guess I'd like to see receipts on how he got there

Is this about me on Maria?

Tone: Solving in thread, and has a consistent and compelling gameview in the PT

Logic/VCA: Was a counter to scum yesterday

[Save The Dragons]

UNVOTE: I guesss I dunno man I need some time to think

[Save The Dragons]

UNVOTE:

[Save The Dragons]

Actually you never said you wanted to become gravy, just that you will
Are you happy with that fate?

Not really sounds messy

[furtiveglance]

Summon GuiltyLion to the main thread

[fireisredsir]

agreed

[Meuh]

i don’t think shea ever does what he did this game as scum
sorry not sorry but that would be so gross to start up and then whine about toxicity you took part it knowing how it didn’t even matter because it came from someone prodding at you

i don’t think anyone’s made a really compelling case for furtive being scum and i’m still waiting
i feel like i’m waiting for reasons on a ton of things that i’m not getting

Who's shea and when did that thing you're talking about happened?

I just realized no one answered this, Shea = The Status Quo (TSQ), the player that MariaR replaced.

[fireisredsir]

ari's scumgame is good but i think she isn't at all afraid to be straightforward and just push for what she wants

last time i played against her i saw the points at which it looked like she could be making these same types of pushes of scum agenda but i wasn't willing to pull the trigger on it partly bc it seemed like it was almost too blatant (specifically thinking of turing test where she pushed for the kitty towncase right when she needed a dann elim, for those who played/read that)

[furtiveglance]

ari's scumgame is good but i think she isn't at all afraid to be straightforward and just push for what she wants

last time i played against her i saw the points at which it looked like she could be making these same types of pushes of scum agenda but i wasn't willing to pull the trigger on it partly bc it seemed like it was almost too blatant (specifically thinking of turing test where she pushed for the kitty towncase right when she needed a dann elim, for those who played/read that)

What is this in reference to this game?

[Shirou]

Now that I am back to my casual self, before I go off to do house chores I need to say:

Meuh, my white knight in shining armor, forgive me for not giving much attention to our relationship.

Before I knew it, I started to lose myself. Day and night, I attempted to slay and slay amidst the greenish forrest...all in the hopes of achieving the thrill of being bathed in the filthy red of the enemy.

My conscience questioned me, "Oh foolish youngster, toxicity in the name of justice is still toxicity!" But I was blind, and kept screaming "Nay! Toxicity in the name of justice

is Justice!

".

And then I AtE'd, and slayed, and AtE'd, and slayed...but eventually, so bathed in bloodlust, I became unrecognizable to those I was trying to save and protect.

Perhaps, I had became something worse than what I set out to destroy.

Then I took out my battered armor, and sheated my bloodied sword. While pondering if I had done a good enough job and could already rest, I painfully realized:

As much as I try, I can be no hero of justice at all. After all, I am just a clueless lady helplessly enamored to her prince.

Now that the dust has settled...I realize that may biggest mistake goes further than the mere question of whether the enemies I fought are even real. My biggest regret, truly must be trading love for bloodlust...