Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[GnKoichi]

Kmd, you haven't let me off the hook for ANYTHING this game. Why are you so quick to forgive and defend Charter?

You're misusing the term Strawman. This isn't Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice. You're using a very narrow definition of misleading as well. But we've ended the semantics argument.

Even if being misleading and purposefully overstating are two different things, it doesn't change the part of that post where I caught Charter in a flat out contradiction. He says he isn't basing any of his current actions on his suspicions of anyone else, except that's the EXACT reason he gave for taking his vote off of Wall-E "I know who the scum team is, and Wall-E isn't on it".

[Wall-E]

I think the problem here is why would charter mention suspicions or knowledge without stating what they are? Why not just keep quiet?

I now want to hear what charter's reason for being so sure I'm town are.

[Kmd4390]

Forgive him for what? He never admitted to being scum or misleading. Both are your interpretation of what he said.

[GnKoichi]

Wall-E: He gave them. He said that you were town because he had figure out who has on the scum team. I'm not putting words in his mouth. He says it here:

And my reason for finding Wall-E town is that you and him are not scumbuddies, which leaves you. Go ahead and call me out for just stating it, I'm not going to tell how I know this right now, and don't even try and push the "charter must know cause he's scum" crap. I'm actually getting really fed up with this game and a lot of the people letting you off the hook despite the mountain of evidence pointing towards you being scum.

And then after three people asked him for it, finally posted that theory here:

Scum: GK, Kiro, animorph. SK: Kmd.

Yet, now with you there are a total of SIX people asking for an explanation of these suspicions. He has made two reasons not to give those:

I didn't want to because I don't have time.

I'm not trying to act on my other suspicions.

The first excuse is easily a lie. He's made EIGHT posts today. He could have just made ONE and have it be the one everyone's asking for. He refuses, because he doesn't want to have to defend himself (another thing that he himself said, not my words).

The second excuse is also a lie, as shown in my posts #398 and #400.

I know that I've had not so great reasons for being against Charter before, but please consider all of this!

[Wall-E]

you're right, but he might just be lazy

i'll wait for charter to post again

if he hasn't explained the things mentioned in post 403 after that point, he's earned my vote for the day

[charter]

I can post a whole slew of games where I overstate, so it's a null tell.

except that's the EXACT reason he gave for taking his vote off of Wall-E "I know who the scum team is, and Wall-E isn't on it".

Yet another overstatement by me.

I think the problem here is why would charter mention suspicions or knowledge without stating what they are? Why not just keep quiet?

I now want to hear what charter's reason for being so sure I'm town are.

Good question, I am now kicking myself for my 'want to post my suspicions' post. I'm really not that sure that you're town, it was another overstatement.

GK, can you tell me how those lies benefit scum more than town?

[Wall-E]

your lies certainly don't benefit the town

anything that doesn't benefit us is unhelpful and distracting

die scum die

vote: charter

[Kmd4390]

Wait, is that an admission to lying?

[charter]

Whatever, if you guys actually lynch me you're incredibly dumb. It doesn't benefit me if I'm scum either. I stand by my guesses on who's scum. Don't listen to anything GK says.

[Wall-E]

"whatever" is a scummy thing to say in the face of a lynch

[GnKoichi]

Yet another overstatement by me.

Except that doesn't excuse the fact that you used this overstatement as the justification for your actions, and then denied doing so later.

Whatever, if you guys actually lynch me you're incredibly dumb... Don't listen to anything GK says.

Another brilliant counterpoint.

Wait, is that an admission to lying?

Well, obviously Charter will say it wasn't, but you should judge for yourself. At the very least, it's yet another post without giving any of the information we asked for, and he does nothing to dispel the lie I claim to have caught him in, so perhaps you could call it an admission by omission.

[Plum]

It's been fun pointing out the holes in some of GnK's attacks of Charter, but at this point there are some things going on with him that clearly

aren't

just Gnk's interpretations. For the benefit of everyone, I'm going to post a list of my suspects. Nameless, was it you who said that we can't all be scum, despite appearances to the contrary? I know there's something wrong with either the town or the scumteam when I've got four players I find overtly suspicious plus two I find somewhat/minorly suspicious

plus

two chronic lurkers not in in either of those groups. If you're on my list, consider yourself as having a FOS from me of degree apropriate to your place and case on the list.

1. GnK: The weird behavior around Wall-E, e.g. going from him as protown and trying to help him get into the game by voting him, rediculous surety on an at-a-stretch-at-best interpretation of Charter's votes to imply a Charter/Wall-E scumteam. At the time, what a call for votes on Charter in caps lock for what appeared to be strongly-worded suspicions, not, as he claimed, a clear admission that he's scum (more on this below). In conjunction with this, suggesting a no-lynch looks less like a newbie/nulltell and more like the work of scum. Attacked Charter earlier for 'trying to mislead the town' by sharing his thoughts on how many NKs would go through, which I've personally refuted multiple times and so won't do so here. Ask if you've got questions.

2. Charter: Claimed Doc, our vanilla, I suppose, prematurely; followed this by saying he lies as town. Suggested we wrap up Day 1 when there's still valuble discussion going on. Expressing the fact that he has more suspicions than he's telling us about and not elaborating - anti-townish. Going back and forth on how strong his

multiple

'overtstated' suspicions or lack thereof are - he excuses many things as 'just another overstatement'.

GK, can you tell me how those lies benefit scum more than town?

Seems to admit to lying in this instance. When under pressure after that, an unhelpful post:

Whatever, if you guys actually lynch me you're incredibly dumb. It doesn't benefit me if I'm scum either. I stand by my guesses on who's scum. Don't listen to anything GK says.

The 'Whatever, you're being stupid, etc.' post which doesn't defend himself or indeed help the town at all doesn't do anything to lower my suspicions.

3. Wall-E: I've made a case on him, being his attempt to make a case on Charter and then Nameless by extension, which were based on untruths and hypocrisy (taking some of Charter's actions as scumtells when he'd committed them himself; unhelpful to the town).

4. OP: Lack of posting overall, awful percentage of posts being useful or helpful, i.e. not many. Came in and quoted Nameless on Wall-E, added an emoticon, and voted him to L-2; implied GnK is doing a good job (useless, and, in my himble opinion, wrong) and supports the almost entirely baseless (it's based on at-a-stretch-at-best interpretations of Charter's votes, as above) Wall-E/Charter scumteam theory ithout warranting it.

5. Animorpherv: Lesser suspicions, but quickly votes Wall-E after replacing in with little explaination. Parroting. Parroting untruths.

Lesser suspicions here:

MK and TM: Just get posting, please lurkers.

Kiro: Old suggestion of no-protects. Really minor suspicions here, as otherwise I can't think of anything dubious he's done off the top of my head, and the above may well not have been the work of scum.

Everyone else is everyone else.

[Mirth]

"I'm starting to get cranky"

VOTE COUNT

GnKoihi - 5 - [Stef, Kmd, charter, Nameless, Plum]

Wall-E - 2 - [animorpherv, orangepenguin]
Charter - 2 - [GnKoichi, Wall-E]

Not Voting - 3 - [Mana_Ku, Tony Montana, Kiro]

Tentative Deadline Dec 6

[Stef]

Hahah.. funny vid

[Kmd4390]

Plum, you have GnK and Charter as your top 2 suspects. Do you think they are bussing each other?

[Stef]

Looking over your posts, kmd, i didn't see your extensive thoughts on Charter. Care to express them please? Thank you.

[animorpherv1]

unvote vote:charter

, I really think charter may be scum, looking at his posts, I get a scum vibe from him.

[Stef]

Animorph bring arguments to your vote. Something that would warrant a vote.

[GnKoichi]

Stef, I'd personally like to know how you felt about my posts #372-374, since your last analysis post of myself and charter didn't seem to take it into account, but rather focused on the failed arguments that those later posts attempted to rectify.

I'd also like to know what you think of my argument against Charter in posts 398 and 403.

[TonyMontana]

Whatever, if you guys actually lynch me you're incredibly dumb. It doesn't benefit me if I'm scum either. I stand by my guesses on who's scum. Don't listen to anything GK says.

First of all, the lashing out at the town when "pressured" is not helping. Secondly, I'm really relieved that you stand by your, seemingly, random guesses.

Dude, I posted last like a day ago, chill out. I have a life. Why compare me only to Tony?

You don't have to sound so insulted. I have a life too.. and feelings... which you hurt.

Pretty sure I've said GK and given reasons. I've said I think you are too, but I don't have time to

make

a giant case against you now.

Arguably semantics, but I think this is your problem in a nutshell.

Vote:Charter

[orangepenguin]

Eh, I think Wall and charter are partners, but considering I think GnK is town, and charter and wall-e scum, I might as well compensate my vote, and

unvote, vote: charter

.

[Wall-E]

FoS: OP

Don't say someone's someone's partner without stating a reason, ugly.

[Plum]

@Kmd: No, I don't think they're bussing one another. I'm, say, dunno, %80 sure GnK is scum with players other than Charter or is the SK, and perhaps %20 sure that Charter is scum with players other than GnK and maybe 15% chance on top of that that he's SK. Furthermore, the list I posted was the cases in order as I see them without gut feelings much factored, in, as I don't see sharing suspicions or lack thereof I can't quantify with the town as being very helpful. Having said that, I'll say that I have a town vibe on Charter. The actual case on him as I see it is perhaps slightly stronger than the case on Wall-E as I see it, though.

Wow, fast votes on Charter from three chronic lurkers with little explaination.

TM: Little scumhunting, followed by a short case, consisting partly of a random appeal to emotion or pointless sarcasm, then the point of Charter mentioning suspicions he can't won't back up now. Valid but no less important than much of what's been discussed - I'd prefer he give a more comprehensive somment. Still, could be a worse vote. See below.

Animorpherv: Parroting, parroting untruths, useless posts, not commenting on discussion, as stated above. Votes with only a vibe as the given reason.

HOS: Animorpherv

OP: Perhaps two of his twelve posts this game have been useful at all. He's signed onto the (stupid) Wall-E/Charter scumteam theory without warranting his position at all and votes

because of it

. Etc.

HOS: OP

[Nameless]

Heeeeey guys ... Just a quick FYI, a few minutes ago I received a delivery of one new, shiny laptop. So, apologies in advance if I'm distracted from saying much in the next few days.

(

Unvote

, just in case.)

[GnKoichi]

Plum, you say there is a stronger case against Charter than against Wall-E. You've left your vote on me. Why do you think there is a stronger case against me than against Charter? What do you believe I have done that is scummier than what Charter has in the last few pages? Do you have a defense for Charter, or do you agree with my analysis in Post #403?