Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Just one point of clarification. For those of you who think this, we think it's more important to flip Lunar or Solar today why?

I think there's a rather strong chance we're looking at a Lunar scumteam that has an Arsonist factional ability and therefore eliminating them before they ignite seems essential

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Right and his buddy Ydrasse knew absolutely nothing about that because?

Because, as evidenced by Ydrasse's entire ISO, Ydrasse was paying very little attention to this game.

Read Ydrasse's ISO and try to assess how much attention she was giving this game. Don't assume. Assess.

I'm waiting for a response to this.

[Past Present Future]

Right and his buddy Ydrasse knew absolutely nothing about that because?

Because, as evidenced by Ydrasse's entire ISO, Ydrasse was paying very little attention to this game.

Read Ydrasse's ISO and try to assess how much attention she was giving this game. Don't assume. Assess.

I'm waiting for a response to this.

When I’ve been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt and you’re argument is Ydrasse would somehow have missed it? I’m sorry but Ydra not knowing anything about it’s existence even if it does turn out to say exactly that they completely fabricated it, there should still be something about it in Lunar scum pt. So let’s say Ydrasse wasn’t paying attention to the game. She was to some extent because she did make reads but fypov, there would have to be something in the scum pt - either that a possible guilty existed or that it’s completely bogus but you’re going to seriously argue that Ydrasse knew nothing about any mention of either a true or fake claim even existing?

I think it’s beyond obvious from all of her posting that the MMR claim was as much of a surprise to her as anyone. How would Ydrasse not have seen word one about such a claim- real or fake - existing? You’d have to be seriously arguing that she never looked at the scum pt which I find extremely difficult to fathom. I know the claim is bogus but it’s clear Ydrasse hadn’t read anything about it even existing in Lunar scum pt.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

When I’ve been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt and you’re argument is Ydrasse would somehow have missed it?

You find it vital to clarify that 'When I've been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt' before using it to imply that this always happens. Because you

know

that's not something you can just blanket assume. If you thought that was so standard that it was a given in this game, you wouldn't have strengthened it as an argument before using it as an argument; you'd have just said something more like 'Your argument is Ydrasse would have somehow missed MMR's result in the scum PT?' But since you know individual scum role results being in a PT can't just be assumed, you're making the case for it before saying it's obvious.

I cannot, to my knowledge, remember a single time I've seen scum's individual role results be posted in a scum PT. I've just gone through all of Meg's complete modded games, and none of them have a situation where this would be relevant. All results being in the scum PT isn't the given that you want it to be.


But even then, this whole thing isn't hugely relevant. Even if the result was literally in the scum PT, that doesn't mean Ydrasse... responded to it, provided input on it, did anything outside the norm of what she did in this game thread.

I think it’s beyond obvious from all of her posting that the MMR claim was as much of a surprise to her as anyone. How would Ydrasse not have seen word one about such a claim- real or fake - existing? You’d have to be seriously arguing that she never looked at the scum pt which I find extremely difficult to fathom. I know the claim is bogus but it’s clear Ydrasse hadn’t read anything about it even existing in Lunar scum pt.

What specifically makes you think that from Ydrasse's posting?

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

This conversation is very difficult to have in earnest when you start from a conclusion and talk past my points to continuously push the conclusion

[Past Present Future]

When I’ve been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt and you’re argument is Ydrasse would somehow have missed it?

You find it vital to clarify that 'When I've been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt' before using it to imply that this always happens. Because you

know

that's not something you can just blanket assume. If you thought that was so standard that it was a given in this game, you wouldn't have strengthened it as an argument before using it as an argument; you'd have just said something more like 'Your argument is Ydrasse would have somehow missed MMR's result in the scum PT?' But since you know individual scum role results being in a PT can't just be assumed, you're making the case for it before saying it's obvious.

I cannot, to my knowledge, remember a single time I've seen scum's individual role results be posted in a scum PT. I've just gone through all of Meg's complete modded games, and none of them have a situation where this would be relevant. All results being in the scum PT isn't the given that you want it to be.


But even then, this whole thing isn't hugely relevant. Even if the result was literally in the scum PT, that doesn't mean Ydrasse... responded to it, provided input on it, did anything outside the norm of what she did in this game thread.

I think it’s beyond obvious from all of her posting that the MMR claim was as much of a surprise to her as anyone. How would Ydrasse not have seen word one about such a claim- real or fake - existing? You’d have to be seriously arguing that she never looked at the scum pt which I find extremely difficult to fathom. I know the claim is bogus but it’s clear Ydrasse hadn’t read anything about it even existing in Lunar scum pt.

What specifically makes you think that from Ydrasse's posting?

That’s generally been my experience as scum. The mod usually posts all results in the scum pt. You’ve had different experiences?

Ydrasse’s posting read to me like she had as much awareness of that claim than anyone. I suppose since she’s a buddy, it’s conceivable that MMR discussed the gambit and she’s pretending not to know but it just read to me like she had no awareness of it.

[Past Present Future]

This conversation is very difficult to have in earnest when you start from a conclusion and talk past my points to continuously push the conclusion

????

I really don’t understand, Why aren’t you engaging my points? I’m sorry but I’m really not understanding your argument.

Your argument is that Ydra being checked out of the game in the main thread would also apply to the scum pt or?

I’m telling you how I read her reaction. You’re free to disagree with it but I don’t understand your reasoning? So sorry if you think I’m somehow being obtuse here but it’s not making sense to me. I really don’t understand what your point is. I’m not trying to frustrate you but how can I engage with you more to your liking if I don’t understand why you think it makes sense?

[T-Bone]

I actually think Nancy is clearly explaining her thought process on Ydrasse? I'm not sure what isn't clear to you DDS

[T-Bone]

Which, we're certain that they aren't aligned because PPF can't be Lunar. So regardless of PPF's alignment its an earnest thought process imo. Unless you think they are trying to mask how the scum PT works, since scum!PPF would know.

[Firebringer]

who says cult games are hard

VOTE: professotic

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: Professiotic

I don’t think T-Bone is scum anymore and I think it was Meuh who said that Porkens wagon went through to try to save her.

Plus after RR flip, no reason for Prof trying to push CSF. Titus also thinks it’s Prof and if you read our early posts, she has been suspicious of Prof since the beginning. Still don’t understand what happened night 3 but Prof commute could be to make it look like they were the target.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Professotic

Eagerly awaiting that 1v1.

[Past Present Future]

There was a REASON i switched from Ydrass to Porkens and started the Porkens wagon cause Ydrass was Townie.

I don’t really see what point you’re making here.
If anything, the fact Porkens gained momentum and Ydrasse didn’t despite similar positioning in the game points to Ydrasse having scum buddies protecting her.

Explain?

So the way I see it:

Ydrasse and Porkens' wagons happened one after the other, they were in similar positions of influence (both not super present, though at least Ydrasse existed) and had a similar amount of towncred. So there must be a reason why Porkens went through, and Ydrasse didn't.
Either:
1. Ydrasse is lunar scum who had one or two influential (high thread presence/high towncred) partners that prevented the lim on her from going through. Someone like T-bone, CSF or DDS is lunar scum and had her back.
2. Ydrasse just happened to be townread by key players, which prevented her from being limmed. (NAI in nature)

Because of the aforementioned similar positions from Porkens and Ydrasse, I find the first option more likely and specifically the idea of lunar!Ydrasse quite likely. and even if it wasn't a or some partners responsible for her living, she can still very much be scum.

If you think Ydrasse is town, I'd like to know: Why do you think she wasn't limmed, but Porkens was?

[Past Present Future]

Except it was Prof who started that wagon to save Ydrasse.

[T-Bone]

I'd be remiss not to point out that I don't think Prof had much to do with the wagon beyond being the first to switch their vote. I really think Junko and I did the pleading to get the Porkens elimination through at the end of that day.

[Past Present Future]

VC 4.0.10


Ydrasse (3) Meuh, Cat Scratch Fever, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow [E-4]

Meuh (2) Ydrasse, Enchant
Professotic (2) Junkochan, T-Bone,

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Radical Rat,
Cat Scratch Fever (1) Firebringer
Porkens (1) Professotic,

Not Voting (3): Porkens, Mathblade, Past Present Future ,

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to eliminate
Deadline: 1 day*
*Deadline Frozen for Porkens Replacement

VC 4.0.11



Porkens (6) Professotic, Junkochan, T-Bone, Cat Scratch Fever, Enchant, Meuh [E-1!]

Ydrasse (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Professotic (1) Ydrasse,
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Radical Rat,
Cat Scratch Fever (1) Firebringer

Not Voting (3): Porkens, Mathblade, Past Present Future ,

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to eliminate
Deadline: 1 day*
*Deadline Frozen for Porkens Replacement

Dawn 2 Final VC

Porkens (7) Professotic, Junkochan, T-Bone, Cat Scratch Fever, Enchant, Meuh, Firebringer [Hammer!]

Ydrasse (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Professotic (1) Ydrasse,
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Radical Rat,

Not Voting (3): Porkens, Mathblade, Past Present Future ,

With 13 Alive it took 7 to eliminate
Deadline: 1 day*
*Deadline was Frozen for Porkens Replacement

[Cat Scratch Fever]

So a couple of things

I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my claim yesterday. Fullclaim for real this time:

1. I am still a Town Guardian. I can give a shield to someone every Night (not Noons). The shielded person is protected from

one

negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from

all

negative effects or kills). The shield is effective from that Night until the following Night (it can prevent a dayvig as well as a kill or negative effect during Noons) or until it is broken.

If my shield protects someone

, I get a message saying the shield was broken.

I omitted this part from my claim initially, because by suggesting my shield made my target impervious to multiple things, I thought I could discourage Scum from targeting my shielded person entirely. Whereas if I made it clear that my shield was limited in effect, it'd be a free for all every time I claimed that my shield broke.

2. In 7747 - where I originally "fullclaimed" - I said I had my shield in front of DDS starting with Night 3 -

this was a lie

. I had my shield in front of Meuh. Every single Night this game, I've placed my shield in front of Meuh. The only times Meuh has been targeted were Noon 1 and Noon 3 (aka last night).

As for why lie about my target, I thought DDS was very town by their dayplay & they were a strong Solar kill contender due to mod confirmation that they're not Solar. I thought I could divert the Solar kill away from them and onto either Meuh - who I had my active unprocced shield in front of - or divert the kill onto me (which is also fine imo because professotic had been yelling I was Lunar for the better part of yesterday).

Needless to say Meuh is dead, and my gambit failed spectacularly. I did get a message saying my shield broke last night while protecting her. Some things about this:

1. I wasn't roleblocked or vanillaized - because I did get the broken shield message
2. Meuh wasn't hit by a strongman - or at least not

only

a strongman - I know this because I only get the broken shield message when my shield

successfully

protects someone from a kill or negative effect (I also confirmed this with the mod)
3. Scum had to have hit Meuh with two different things last night

I've deliberated whether or not to fullclaim here, but I feel the gambit has not been useful (kind of the opposite in fact lol) and in case I die, I worry this info will be lost/be misleading later. Either the last Solar is some sort of Scum PR role & multitasked on Meuh last night

OR

Lunar & Solar can both act during a Noon and doubled up on Meuh. Also if Lunar are arsonists, Meuh was never targeted by Lunar, so she was never doused.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Anyway I think the game's evidence points to PPF as Solar and Prof to Lunar. I'm gonna step away for now to not flood the thread with a back and forth with PPF. I've laid out what I think. I know that there's a fight brewing with Prof on the horizon.

Just one point of clarification. For those of you who think this, we think it's more important to flip Lunar or Solar today why?

Just one point of clarification. For those of you who think this, we think it's more important to flip Lunar or Solar today why?

I think there's a rather strong chance we're looking at a Lunar scumteam that has an Arsonist factional ability and therefore eliminating them before they ignite seems essential

I think this reason makes sense & agree that we should try to hit Lunar today.

But we know there is for sure another Solar bc of the kill last night. And while it is probably best to assume there is another Lunar, I'm not 100% sure on that. So if we aim for Lunar but don't hit it today, I think we should pursue Solar tomorrow

[Past Present Future]

So a couple of things

I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my claim yesterday. Fullclaim for real this time:

1. I am still a Town Guardian. I can give a shield to someone every Night (not Noons). The shielded person is protected from

one

negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from

all

negative effects or kills). The shield is effective from that Night until the following Night (it can prevent a dayvig as well as a kill or negative effect during Noons) or until it is broken.

If my shield protects someone

, I get a message saying the shield was broken.

I omitted this part from my claim initially, because by suggesting my shield made my target impervious to multiple things, I thought I could discourage Scum from targeting my shielded person entirely. Whereas if I made it clear that my shield was limited in effect, it'd be a free for all every time I claimed that my shield broke.

2. In 7747 - where I originally "fullclaimed" - I said I had my shield in front of DDS starting with Night 3 -

this was a lie

. I had my shield in front of Meuh. Every single Night this game, I've placed my shield in front of Meuh. The only times Meuh has been targeted were Noon 1 and Noon 3 (aka last night).

As for why lie about my target, I thought DDS was very town by their dayplay & they were a strong Solar kill contender due to mod confirmation that they're not Solar. I thought I could divert the Solar kill away from them and onto either Meuh - who I had my active unprocced shield in front of - or divert the kill onto me (which is also fine imo because professotic had been yelling I was Lunar for the better part of yesterday).

Needless to say Meuh is dead, and my gambit failed spectacularly. I did get a message saying my shield broke last night while protecting her. Some things about this:

1. I wasn't roleblocked or vanillaized - because I did get the broken shield message
2. Meuh wasn't hit by a strongman - or at least not

only

a strongman - I know this because I only get the broken shield message when my shield

successfully

protects someone from a kill or negative effect (I also confirmed this with the mod)
3. Scum had to have hit Meuh with two different things last night

I've deliberated whether or not to fullclaim here, but I feel the gambit has not been useful (kind of the opposite in fact lol) and in case I die, I worry this info will be lost/be misleading later. Either the last Solar is some sort of Scum PR role & multitasked on Meuh last night

OR

Lunar & Solar can both act during a Noon and doubled up on Meuh. Also if Lunar are arsonists, Meuh was never targeted by Lunar, so she was never doused.

I don’t think I understand CSF. You’re saying you successfully protected Meuh but they’re dead. If what you’re saying is true, than how would it not point to a strongman? I could see the possibility of both factions teaming up I guess, would explain the lack of anything happening at nights.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

The shielded person is protected from one negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from all negative effects or kills).

Let's say that

1. Lunar tried to kill Meuh
2. Solar also tries to kill Meuh

I can only stop one of these kills but not the other.

I didn't successfully protect Meuh, but my shield successfully prevented one thing targeting her last night. But it was unable to prevent the second thing

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm fine with putting Professotic in the pressure cooker, but I also want to see where Magician's head is at today

[T-Bone]

I'll be honest the full claim doesn't look great to me. I'm gonna sit with my thoughts for a bit though.

[Past Present Future]

The shielded person is protected from one negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from all negative effects or kills).

Let's say that

1. Lunar tried to kill Meuh
2. Solar also tries to kill Meuh

I can only stop one of these kills but not the other.

I didn't successfully protect Meuh, but my shield successfully prevented one thing targeting her last night. But it was unable to prevent the second thing

So you think double kill then? That actually happened to me in Masochist mafia. I was nk’d twice but in that game probably both vigged and nk’d but I suppose I could have just been double nk’d. You’d have to ask Fire, he modded that game.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

No sorry that was just a hypothetical example to explain how my role works. I find it unlikely that Lunar can kill in the traditional sense given we haven't seen them kill.

I'm not sure what the second thing that Meuh was targeted was.

[Past Present Future]

No sorry that was just a hypothetical example to explain how my role works. I find it unlikely that Lunar can kill in the traditional sense given we haven't seen them kill.

I'm not sure what the second thing that Meuh was targeted was.

Well if you’re telling the truth, then that’s the only thing that could possibly make sense because you say strongman isn’t possible, right?

Because Lunar hasn’t done anything and Dangle’s role as potential lunar vanillaizer has to exist for a reason.