i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I also did some research on Ythan's meta and I could post the cliff notes of that I guess if I just have oodles of time. My main takeaway from Ythan past games is that they are a very capable player as both alignments and are grossly underperforming this game, not only how they have previously played as Town but also how they have previously played as scum, which makes me suspect Ythan might be 3rd party who wants to fly under the radar.

What do you mean by 'underperforming'? My 1 game experience with Ythan was that he was perceived as kind of scummy as town

[Ythan]

I literally just coast by on this cute avatar.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Yui is the cutest, no contest there

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a question:

where is Vaxkiller?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oversimplification. Erinys is more so saying the means of presentation are not enticing.
I back Erinys’ comment here since I have experienced other players doing the sort of thing it accused Froggy off doing.

Just to make sure I understood this post right - are you saying when people self meta to prove themselves as town, they tend to lie more often than not? If so, I disagree with that conclusion

I said I was gonna avoid meta but this is just comical
I don’t think Elements has ever voted scum!me, but he frequently scumreads town!me

Elements admitted to not having read the game yet, why did you feel the need to say this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I think it’s a rather stark trend
I’ll admit the scumgame sample size is somewhat low but one of those games was massive and Elements and I did clash at one point, but they never voted me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oversimplification. Erinys is more so saying the means of presentation are not enticing.
I back Erinys’ comment here since I have experienced other players doing the sort of thing it accused Froggy off doing.

Just to make sure I understood this post right - are you saying when people self meta to prove themselves as town, they tend to lie more often than not? If so, I disagree with that conclusion

I said I was gonna avoid meta but this is just comical
I don’t think Elements has ever voted scum!me, but he frequently scumreads town!me

Elements admitted to not having read the game yet, why did you feel the need to say this?

It depends on the player
I tend to be more honest with self-meta than I believe most would be, in part because as I see it, the gap between my scumgame and towngame is at times negligible: I have enough skill to play with some of my cards face up and still come out ahead sometimes.
Ftr the player I speak of as fitting the stated bill is Flavor Leaf. Without fail, whenever I start to catch scum!him, he starts on the same song and dance of “I wouldn’t have played this way as scum, I swear”

[Frogsterking]

In case anyone is getting burned out trying to read the thread just skip Gamma's posts, they're all intentionally full of shit to waste your time.

What do you mean by 'underperforming'?

Scum hunting, engaging, making posts with more than like five words, having actual reads on the game that they can explain without pretending like they can't understand the question (190, 204)

Gamma became more townie after page 7.

VOTE: Frogsterking

I threw up in my mouth. KT my read here is that you're tired but wanted to play so you skimmed the thread, jumped to this conclusion about Gamma, voted me and then went to bed.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@Gamma, yea players can lie about their own meta. But on balance, I think there tends to be veins of truth in self meta.

What Frogs said can be a lie, but I feel like the same can be said for almost anything in forum mafia. So when High Princess said he could've been manipulating his meta, like sure he could've been - that almost goes without saying - but is he actually?

What would have been a response to Morning Tweet's question in 187 that wouldn't involve a realistic chance of meta manipulation?

If your purpose isn't to shade or scumread (228), then why torpedo this response? Can you clarify your read on Frogs?

Fixed the quote link

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: HighPrincess quote

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

Interested in this little out(?). Want to say it feels towny to go "hey investigatives don't waste an action" but that's easily something scum could do too as a bluff, especially when this entire setup is one giant question mark in terms of mechanics. This one will be keeping an eye on you.

Which one do you think it is?

It's fairly meta for town to claim miller immediately, and I think there's a high probability of negative town utility in a big setup like this. I'm erring on the side of trusting at this stage

Hard to say for certain, especially when there's almost certainly neg util like you said. It's more something to keep in mind rn than anything.

idk about Frogster, backing out on tris so fast might be scum theatre but I can't say I scumread him otherwise.

Oh come off it, assuming tris is town, then as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them.

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

fwiw I did skim frog's scum chat in that game, causing thread bloat was a significant theme he discussed, and he heavily posted in scumchat in general. I get the impression that scum frog has many posts that don't have a real purpose to them.

[Morning Tweet]

i do NOT like the look of cat scratch fever. post 85 reminds me of me when i'm playing scum, false bravado to try and look towny.

Can you bold the words in 85 that were false bravado?

I like the way quiet owl words this read, it reads genuine, although i dont exactly see false bravado myself

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

And is this a take that you actually have or are you just shading my slot because I put you in my solve? You were in that game I linked to and you recognized my scum play there immediately. What exactly do you think I am not being truthful about considering you have first hand experience?

Because you can just. Lie? Like, it's really as simple as that. This isn't shade or a scumread just "hm, something to think about..." because anyone can just literally lie and do the opposite. If you're acknowledging that this one caught on to your scum play within the one day it was alive that game, then it's not impossible for you to try and adjust your play in this game as you're obviously self-aware of your own scum behaviors.

that goes for everything! doesn't it?

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

wh-
what

frog: "here's some evidence to back up my claims"
erinys: "HMM. PROVIDING EVIDENCE IS SUSPICIOUS."

???

Right? I asked frog a meta-centered question and received a meta-centered and meta-backed answer.

[Ythan]

In case anyone is getting burned out trying to read the thread just skip Gamma's posts, they're all intentionally full of shit to waste your time.

I think you might be projecting here.

[Morning Tweet]

Like you are claiming that my response to MT is scummy because of abstract reasoning, but the claims that I made to her about my scum play are easily verifiable and consistent with how I actually approach the game as scum.

I asked Frog about his scum play and received his take on his scum play.

I can verify the bit about the thread bloating and heavy scum-chat usage

Doesn't mean frog can't play against that meta but it's something that interests me to know anyway

I don't think Erinys is scummy for finding a meta post scummy, someone always does this when meta is brought up, it's controversial ppl have a lot of different opinions on meta

but the fact that I asked frog to provide the meta defense negates erinys' point that "he could lie". It's not like frog provided this defence over another defence, this is just a matter of answering my question in my opinion

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Erinys quote

Saying you're town because you aren't doing any of this is.

I didn't say that in my answer to Tweet though? I just like answered their question truthfully? Why are you pretending like you can't understand this?

because this one answered the one question Tweet asked it, and obviously responded to you too.

You didn't answer their question in any meaningful way which provided new information.

Here look:

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

Why are you being vague like you have no idea how I play? You're just framing my answer to Tweet in the worst possible light and pretending like it's moving the game forward.

This one thinks we've both kind of lost the plot here. So again, slowly this time: This one never got asked a question about you by Tweet, only about Menno's claim of causing investigative shenanigans. This one said in the same post, independent of answering that question; "Hey, Froggy

could

be trying to set us up by saying he plays like X as scum and thus is town because he's now playing like Y.". Not a definitive finger, just something that is, in this one's opinion, with full knowledge of how you played in that game, still within the realm of possibility. That is the potential lie in question, not that you're outright lying about an entire scum game that you linked and this one was in. You never directly said you're town to Tweet but you previously, also in this one's original post pointing this out, said this:

idk about Frogster, backing out on tris so fast might be scum theatre but I can't say I scumread him otherwise.

Oh come off it, assuming tris is town, then as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them.

It's not hard to pick up the implication here in combination with you saying to Tweet that bloating the thread is your game plan as scum, with evidence.

Your play has been... interesting so far, but this one honestly isn't super sure what to think of you in terms of alignment.

I mean this is just easy to work with because now not only are you shading me, you're also being wishy washy and refusing to commit to a read on my slot.

This one doesn't get why you seem to be quick to assume you're being shaded. Noticed this a bit in the other game too. This isn't wishy-washy reading either, this never

was

a proper read to commit or not commit to in the first place. Go ahead and call that in itself wishy-washy if you want but the point was always making a note of something that is purely theoretical at the moment, but possible in the future. NOT to be some silver bullet or to abstractly 'move the game forward'. If this one's going to make a read on you, it's going to be for something actually tangible.

These last few posts fried my brain so hopefully this clears up the exact point this one is trying to make here.

You make a good point that Frog seems to be very aware of this thread-bloating point, that's a very good catch with 145 actually I missed that he had brought this up before. I understand why you made the precaution

[Gamma Emerald]

@tweetie

what is your read on me?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

You make a good point that Frog seems to be very aware of this thread-bloating point, that's a very good catch with 145 actually I missed that he had brought this up before.

I understand why you made the precaution

What's its logic here? The potential meta manipulation was important to call out (because Frog was self aware), even though the usage of self meta didn't move the needle on its read

[Morning Tweet]

@tweetie

what is your read on me?

I lean on the side of town. After reviewing, I lean on the side of town still. I think the way ytou respond to Frog is towny and i feel like you've devoted a lot of time to expressingf reads despite being able to probably focus solely on frog if you wanted to

there's a section of me that would place you in very high town for the indignation, around 192 in your iso is the turning poitn for me, i hate that you're hinting about doom if you die but I can let that slide

Ftr the player I speak of as fitting the stated bill is Flavor Leaf. Without fail, whenever I start to catch scum!him, he starts on the same song and dance of “I wouldn’t have played this way as scum, I swear”

Lol

You make a good point that Frog seems to be very aware of this thread-bloating point, that's a very good catch with 145 actually I missed that he had brought this up before.

I understand why you made the precaution

What's its logic here? The potential meta manipulation was important to call out (because Frog was self aware), even though the usage of self meta didn't move the needle on its read

I guess I see why it seems odd to point something out that didn't affect its read. This is kinda frying my brain

I feel like I understand why it's something to point out (Frog is aware that he does these things as scum), although that doesn't necessarily come with a conclusion in of itself. It's just something i would want to know that he knows

[imaginality]

Morning Tweet is town. I really like the detailed analysis of Princess's posts and it reminds me of MT's town play in the 8-ball game we were in.
P-edit: though I lean differently in my read on Gamma.

Cat Scratch feels town to me too. I agree with calling out Gamma's comment about Elements in 266.

I think Princess's point that self-meta should be taken with a grain of salt is right, and then a bunch of subsequent posts trying to clarify that point. Feels genuine compared to if Princess was using it to justify a Frog vote rather than downplaying the relevance as in 237.

One caveat about Princess is that Princess has posted just about that stuff lately and not about anything else.

Frog vs Gamma, maybe Cat Scratch is right that they could both be scum. Frog comes across as very conscious of others' perceptions; Gamma's 'lol' reaction was bad. I don't think they're both town. But they've been the main show lately so I'm trying to bear that 'recency bias' or whatever it's called in mind and gonna scratch around a bit more to see what else is going on in the background.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think Frogs & Gamma are both town. I feel pretty good about calling Frogs town at this point based on my understanding of his scumrange, and Gamma is more of a vibe read

[HighPrincessErinys]

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

What would have been a response to Morning Tweet's question in 187 that wouldn't involve a realistic chance of meta manipulation?

If your purpose isn't to shade or scumread (28), then why torpedo this response? Can you clarify your read on Frogs?

This one thinks pointing out things like that is helpful for the future, even if it doesn't directly contribute to any immediate reads.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Frog meta stuff aside, this one is wondering where tapiocaphobe and Vaxkiller are, and where Ranger went.

[Gamma Emerald]

Morning Tweet is town. I really like the detailed analysis of Princess's posts and it reminds me of MT's town play in the 8-ball game we were in.
P-edit: though I lean differently in my read on Gamma.

Cat Scratch feels town to me too. I agree with calling out Gamma's comment about Elements in 266.

I think Princess's point that self-meta should be taken with a grain of salt is right, and then a bunch of subsequent posts trying to clarify that point. Feels genuine compared to if Princess was using it to justify a Frog vote rather than downplaying the relevance as in 237.

One caveat about Princess is that Princess has posted just about that stuff lately and not about anything else.

Frog vs Gamma, maybe Cat Scratch is right that they could both be scum. Frog comes across as very conscious of others' perceptions;

Gamma's 'lol' reaction was bad

. I don't think they're both town. But they've been the main show lately so I'm trying to bear that 'recency bias' or whatever it's called in mind and gonna scratch around a bit more to see what else is going on in the background.

This never happened.

[Ythan]

Yeah I was wondering if that was supposed to be me lol.

[Enchant]

I think voting Gamma is safe option

[Morning Tweet]

elaborate on that