Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[SpyreX]

I'm out, its bed. I'll post my final thoughts on this mess tomorrow.

[Porkens]

@Wall-E; Illuminati came back from, sorry but, lurking and slapped his
synth vote in a worthless place. I don't want others to follow his example.

@Illuminati; you ask an interesting question, I honestly don't think I have a good answer for you. But let me ask you one back; How can we trust TE, or any claimed metal, enough to give them the Serum? Aren't we just inviting the scum to claim town metal in that case?

@General; I think 'synthing TE is a good plan. I don't trust him, because of how he claimed, and how his arguments with Spy have gone. I agree with Spy that having a town metal claim on D1 is more of a liability than a benefit. I think we could neutralize the incredible amount of WIFOM it's generating simply by synthing TE.

@Spy's suicide; Normally, I'd be all for this play, if I thought the town was going to make any good use of it. But I don't think that we will. We're already dangerously close to a lynch without using the 'synth at all. But, I don't want to see a no-lynch either. I'd still much, much rather hang Ort.

@General; TE came into this recent conflict claiming that Spy was certainly scum. In his last few posts, toward deadline, I've noticed some backpeddling. He's preparing for Spy to flip town. My day 1 guess for scumteam S&S is: Ort, TE, and Illum with a side of 3rd party maybe SK Wall-E.

The rest of you are just too damn lurky.

[Timeater]

I did not know how you would respond. I did not know what type of players I was dealing with.

I think its a perfectly acceptable compromise. I will be fine with a mycosynth d3+ if the town wills it. I will even vote myself. Like I have said before, what you are asking is that the town basically strip a claimed doctor or cop of his powers d1. It is the same situation, and my worth is equivalent in this game. You can moan all you want about how horrible I am, but you aren't the best player yourself and have made multiple mistakes.

Its impossible for anyone to play a perfect townie game. I have made mistakes, almost everyone has. Every single person who has posted a decent amount has made mistakes that the town can interpret as a scum tell.

What part of my claim dont you believe? First, you thought I was lying about my alignment. You think my claim is safe, so you dont think I'm lying about my metallyness or name. So if I'm not lying about my name, how can you explain the mtg flavor? Triskelion is considered a good character in the mtg lore. You have conviently ignored that. I know some players currently in this game dont put alot of stock in claims, but you have to ask yourself, if you think I am scum, and you think I am lying, what am I lying about? Have I just completely fabricated my entire claim? Did I research mtg cards and find Triskelion, and say, hey, "looks I can use that to cover my scum claim in this game". Or did I just alter my role-pms text, adding in the bit about helping the town?

It comes down to two trains of thought if you think I'm scum:

I either A: made up the entire claim, including the name and mtg card, just to tailor-fit this game, and all of it has been total BS.

Or B: I altered the text of my Role PM a little so I would appear town.

Problems with A: I had no idea what this game was about before I even signed up. I thought this game was apart of the Spherewalker universe, a d&d-type game by Greg Stolze. I had no idea it was an mtg-based game. Considering I have made a few blunders this game, which I am fine with admitting, what A is proposing is that I came up with this brilliant role claim that fits this game and its style perfectly.

Problems with B: If I did alter the text of my role PM, explain the Triskelion mtg connection? According to the mtg wiki, Triskelion is a badass mofo with three detachable arms and is a useful and versatile creation of Tawnos, apprentice of Urza, one of the biggest "good guys" in mtg lore. Ok, but wait Timeater, what if you just replaced your evil scum name with Triskelions? Hasn't it been said by multiple people that they think Nat would provide the scum with safeclaims? If I had a name like Gro'Balzvda, Dark Lord of The Blood Realm - would that be considered a safeclaim? - yea right. It doesn't add up.

Can someone OTHER than SpyreX please sound in? Tony maybe? Porkens? Gertainm? Gremwell? Wall-E? ETC

[Wall-E]

TE, I am faced with the following problems:

1) You claimed with no pressure and a less-than-savory excuse.

2) I believe, from only the context and tone of your posts, you're 100% town.

3) I'm not willing to gamble on context and tone. Problem 1 outweighs problem 3.

You're neutral in my book at the very best given those three, and a neutral player is potentially the enemy, so I'm voting to synth you. There's nothing else I can do, I have to follow the path of least potential destruction rather than highest potential gain.

mycosynth: Timeater

[Porkens]

So, TE, you've said now that your might have had some flaw, do you still think SpyreX was scummy for coming after you?

To A and B; I appreciate what you're trying to get across here, but, sadly, we can't really rely on the flavor to tell us alignment. We could argue back and forth about why Triskelion should be good (used on Urza's side), bad, or neutral (artifact, a tool, 3rd party), but it doesn't mean anything, ultimately.

[Timeater]

@Walls

1. I claimed, believe it or not, because I thought it was the best thing to do. I did not know how the town would react to my claim. If that was a monumental mistake, so be it. From now I will just lurk when town oppurtunity knocks. Lurking solves everything.

2. So you are just ignoring my above post and the points I have made in it? Nice. What is 100% town? Its either I'm town or I'm scum. Which is it? There is no middle ground. Nat was very clear about the layout, he made no mention of an SK. Only vanilla townies, mafia, and metalloids. What about all the good stuff I have down for the town? Like sit down and try to discuss logically what the best route of action concerning the serum would be, weighing benefits and disadvantages? Why would a scummer bother doing that? I could go on and on and on about shit I've done this game that has been pro-town. Do I have to make my own megapost?

3. This makes no sense. If you do not want to gamble, that is fine. Myco me d3 if you must. All I am asking is time for the serum beneficiary (who will be random) to possibly check me out in the mean time. I'd also like to say that 2 basically contradicts 1. If you believed everything I had said by the tone of my posts, you would believe me about what I have said about the claim. You're being very fence-sitty.

[Porkens]

You're being very fence-sitty.

This I whole-heartedly agree to.

[Timeater]

@Porkens

So, TE, you've said now that your might have had some flaw, do you still think SpyreX was scummy for coming after you?

They way he has gone about it is very solitary. I still honestly dont know. I cannot say with certainty what alignment I think he is. Apart of me still thinks that because of the tenacity he has showed in attacking me, it must be a sign of scumminess (e.g fear of a metal townie, the gambit to destroy him). I'm not willing to give that up.

To A and B; I appreciate what you're trying to get across here, but, sadly, we can't really rely on the flavor to tell us alignment. We could argue back and forth about why Triskelion should be good (used on Urza's side), bad, or neutral (artifact, a tool, 3rd party), but it doesn't mean anything, ultimately.

Sigh, I guess. But that seems like a forced rationalization for some otherwise pretty good proof. I can understand your skepticism. I really can. But where I come from (where I used to play mafia), claiming is everything. Claiming is the game maker or breaker. Personally, my strongest mafia suit is sniffing implausibilities in claims. I put alot of emphasis on claims, and I believe everyone should. I can accept that some people do not, and realize their reasons.

[Wall-E]

1) You claimed with no pressure and a less-than-savory excuse.

1. I claimed, believe it or not, because I thought it was the best thing to do. I did not know how the town would react to my claim. If that was a monumental mistake, so be it.

So you agree that it's possible you made a mistake. Good. Now on to the rest of this trashy, pleading and frankly insulting post:

From now I will just lurk when town oppurtunity knocks. Lurking solves everything.

No. The opposite of being stupid is not to be absent. Thanks for wasting my time with this little tidbit... I'm going to take you a bit less seriously in the future.

Contrawise, I recommend you do the opposite with me. You clearly aren't reading my posts carefully, as evidenced by this:

2) I believe,

from only

the context and tone of your posts, you're 100% town.

2. So you are just ignoring my above post and the points I have made in it? Nice. What is 100% town? Its either I'm town or I'm scum. Which is it? There is no middle ground. Nat was very clear about the layout, he made no mention of an SK. Only vanilla townies, mafia, and metalloids. What about all the good stuff I have down for the town? Like sit down and try to discuss logically what the best route of action concerning the serum would be, weighing benefits and disadvantages? Why would a scummer bother doing that? I could go on and on and on about shit I've done this game that has been pro-town. Do I have to make my own megapost?

On the issue of 100% town: Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your suit, so I'm going to point to the bolded words in my quote and ask you what part of speech they are and how they relate to the 100% bit. If you answer that question, I'll answer your ...questions? I don't even see anything non-rhetoric in there, but if you do as I ask I'll answer each one truthfully and honestly.

3) I'm not willing to gamble on context and tone. Problem 1 outweighs problem

2

.

Fixed for an obvious typo.

3. This makes no sense. If you do not want to gamble, that is fine. Myco me d3 if you must. All I am asking is time for the serum beneficiary (who will be random) to possibly check me out in the mean time. I'd also like to say that 2 basically contradicts 1. If you believed everything I had said by the tone of my posts, you would believe me about what I have said about the claim. You're being very fence-sitty.

Yep. I am sitting on this fence. In fact, I am standing on it, looking out at a bunch of people fighting in the mud, and before I leap down on someone with all the force and rage of a townie who's been forced

by bad play on the part of certain townies to SIT on said fence until the middle of gorram DAY #$@#@% ONE

, you'd better believe someone's going to need a new set of teeth.[/quote]

[Wall-E]

You're being very fence-sitty.

This I whole-heartedly agree to.

A little omgusy to start sniping me now... I'm suspicious of you, Porkens, and I think you've caught on to that. Can you show me an example of me sitting on a fence?

[Porkens]

Yep. I am sitting on this fence. In fact, I am standing on it, looking out at a bunch of people fighting in the mud, and before I leap down on someone with all the force and rage of a townie who's been forced by bad play on the part of certain townies to SIT on said fence until the middle of gorram DAY #$@#@% ONE, you'd better believe someone's going to need a new set of teeth.

Fence sitter.

[Porkens]

Ooops, sorry, I didn't see the question you had directed at me. But...really, you just admitted you've been fence-sitting, so don't attack me for agreeing to it.

[Wall-E]

And what fence lines am I sitting between in my own example which you've parroted back like scum?

[Timeater]

@Wall-E

Wow, I didnt know you had a nasty side. I dont believe I have insulted you at all in this entire game, in fact I've been a fan of yours. What happened to no ad hom attacks? But in just one post you manage to call me trashy, stupid, and insulting.

I realized what you wrote in point 2, but I thought it best to go on like you didnt mean it, CONSIDERING YOU ARE VOTING TO MYCO ME.

Whatever.

[Wall-E]

The nastyness was me making sure nobody thinks I'm slacking off...

...ok, honestly, I'm just stirring the pot.

TE: It's not fun when you get all sad and defeatist like that. I was hoping for some fire!

Instead you give me "Meh."

Meh is very bad for your win, so I'll avoid being nasty to you (and anyone else who doesn't care for it) in the future, but that's a scumtell in my book... your first, actually.

[Timeater]

It didn't sound like you were "just stirring the pot". It read pretty genuine and vicious to me - but if you want to backpedal and keep your funny-guy image, sure, go for it. I honestly am not the type of person to get riled up when attacked like that. I dont respond well to those kind of attacks, and if you do it enough I'll just become a punching bag and it becomes very depressing. Thats just the way I am. The game isn't worth playing if the people you are playing it with make you feel like something less than a person just because you might mess up or see things differently.

[Wall-E]

I realized that about you as soon as you responded, so if you see my promise not to treat you thusly in the future as backpedaling I'll have to reply that it was simply MY way of doing things. Better to ask forgiveness than permission is a motto of mine. Another is "do no harm."

Let's leave this issue alone then. Anyone else who doesn't want to get flamed: I'll try to remember not to do it to you if you say something, but no promises. Ah do likes mah whiskey, sah!

[ortolan]

I do not have time to reply to the developments as I am writing an essay currently.

Mod: I have been voting for SpyreX since Post 435...

I don't have time to argue for why Gremwell's last post has no merit whatsoever unfortunately, I guess I will have to save it until the next day.

And seeing as some people apparently didn't understand why SpyreX flipping innocent will imply CF Riot is also innocent, I will reiterate:

CF Riot, contrary to the random serum bandwagon on Tuberkulos, attempted to argue for SpyreX getting the serum. IF CF Riot is scum and SpyreX is town, then it would be completely illogical for him to fly in the face of what had already been decided and argue that a *townie* should get the serum. However, if CF Riot is scum and SpyreX is scum then obviously he has a vested interest in giving the serum to his scumbuddy. Likewise if he is townie (which of course, I think is unlikely ) and independently came to the conclusion that SpyreX is townie, and thus wanted him to have the serum. This is why, contrary to what CF Riot and SpyreX themselves have argued, if SpyreX flips innocent this basically proves CF Riot is innocent also, and is why SpyreX's lynch is easily the most informative for the town. Please if you think there's any, ANY flaw in this argument I'd love to hear your reasoning right now. SpyreX, while I still think you're scum you still appear to try to ground your arguments in logic (which is more than I can say for Porkens, CF Riot and now Gremwell) so I'd LOOOOVE to hear from you specifically if you disagree with this argument and why.

[ortolan]

And I will back this up with action: If SpyreX gets hanged and flips innocent, I will not only give Porkens the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the game but I'll vote for him to get the serum tomorrow. Porkens I'm gonna love hearing your arguments for why SpyreX shouldn't get lynched now.

[ortolan]

Sorry, I meant to say I will give CF Riot the serum tomorrow. CF Riot: what are your arguments now?

You can still answer too, Porkens

[ortolan]

Just replace "Porkens" with "CF Riot" in Post 593.

[ortolan]

and one more thing (hehe): Porkens, CF Riot and SpyreX still have not provided any explanation for why they've been so chummy all game and always bandwagoned together. Even if you all happened to independently come to the conclusion that each other are town, this is extremely bad town play. Assuming people you're friends with are town is a good way to lose. And I certainly don't think SpyreX is that dumb.

[ortolan]

Sorry, just let me have one more post, this is really addictive.

SpyreX, if you are town, you will want town to win even after you are dead. Why the antagonism towards Timeater? So please have a read of the following. Why are you willing to sacrifice your own life to get rid of him? I personally don't think your argument in post 549 is particularly strong, long, certainly, but it doesn't seem to prove much beyond treading the same points you already have.

Furthermore, seeing as you support lynching yourself, when you flip town, seeing as you've carried on all game as though you support CF Riot and Porkens, why are you so happy to have them vindicated by your lynch? And if you're town and CF Riot is scum, why would he possibly argue to give you the serum? And why were all three of you trying so hard to convince town that you flipping innocent would say nothing about them? My above argument clearly shows your alignment will give us a read on CF Riot.

And if you're town and intend to be lynched today you have absolutely, absolutely no reason not to quote your role pm in the thread immediately

and finally my name is "ortolan", I don't get where the "oro" abbreviation comes from; I would think "ort" would be more appropriate but I'm not picky and you can call me what you like

[Timeater]

Pretty much agree with everything Ort posted above.

His refusal to post his role pm pushes me towards the idea that he's trying to kamikaze himself to killing the only known metal townie.

[Nicol Bolas]

Days over, folks. I'll get final V.C. + death scene up soon.