House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[GuiltyLion]

VPB I'm voting you largely because I'm most confident you are town and you have momentum, and I'm really curious to see who is really actively against you being King because we are getting to a stage where I find scumreading you somewhat implausible on the whole. personally I've seen you as scum twice now and your vibes are different to me this game. I would also keep in mind there's only 4 players

actually voting you

right now, talk is cheap, votes are what matter.

I do kinda like your coalition idea because scum are going to have to acquiesce to a King at some point and it's a bit dangerous/naive to assume the rosy scenario esp in people supporting you that you think may be town but aren't voting you yet. I've been lazy and haven't thought a ton about Council Mechanics but I don't think a scum councilor is the worst thing in the world because whoever is in those spots (especially thinking like, the cop, master of coin, jailkeeper roles) is going to be forced into playing pro-town to some degree, going rogue to advance scum agenda early would immediately get flagged as scummy. I'd be fine with LLD or Mastina in council positions for that reason, I think in some worlds where we get out weak scum that actually might make the game harder for them if they're deep scum.

[Lukewarm]

I am going to stop responding to GL.

stop responding to me is a good idea because we don't seem to be able to communicate productively, but frankly you should still be casing me because I'm your top scumread and currently a leading King vote, and

if you really believe I'm scum I'd expect you to keep doing that. I will have no chance of finding you town if you don't

There is no town motivation for this post.

If GL is town who thinks I am scum, he is telling me what not to do to get scum read by him, which is pretty ??

Contrasted to just... not saying this, and then seeing what I do in order to either further sort me / case me for it.

It also has that same twistiness built in to just call me scum for the sake of it. Seeing as how I was, like an hour ago, trying to get PP to not vote him for king.

[GuiltyLion]

I am going to stop responding to GL.

stop responding to me is a good idea because we don't seem to be able to communicate productively, but frankly you should still be casing me because I'm your top scumread and currently a leading King vote, and

if you really believe I'm scum I'd expect you to keep doing that. I will have no chance of finding you town if you don't

There is no town motivation for this post.

If GL is town who thinks I am scum, he is telling me what not to do to get scum read by him, which is pretty ??

Contrasted to just... not saying this, and then seeing what I do in order to either further sort me / case me for it.

It also has that same twistiness built in to just call me scum for the sake of it. Seeing as how I was, like an hour ago, trying to get PP to not vote him for king.

that post was literally an olive branch reach out to you

if you say "wah I'm not responding to GL anymore" and use that as an excuse to not post about me, I'm just gonna keep scumreading you because town!you should absolutely be campaigning against me here

Your attempt to get PP to not vote me for king was kinda wholly ineffective and a nothingburger? You just asserted that you didn't like it. That's scummy shit. the more transparent you are with your thought processes the better likelihood of me realizing I'm wrong in my assessment of your thought processes that I don't like.

[GuiltyLion]

If GL is town who thinks I am scum, he is telling me what not to do to get scum read by him, which is pretty ??

like yeah I think you are scum and all of your posts make me a combination of vexed and frankly annoyed at what you're saying. but I'm often wrong, and if you are town this is a bad state and I'd like to not be wrong

I don't think just telling you to case me, if you are scum, is going to make me suddenly become wrong on you, because your cases will continue to strike me as disingenuous. but if you are town, maybe I will see something I am missing

[Lukewarm]

This is kind of an off shoot from my thinking on what I wanted to do with LLD earlier.

I had thought it good to cop check her, because she is scary, but at the time I had said that that would put her in a weak PR.

Thinking about it more, the first cop check should likely just be someone who becomes a permanent member of the kings guard.

This narrows the hunting pool if the king is ever killed, and gives the commander of the kingsguard someone in that pt that they can trust.

Furthermore, it spreads the power out more, forcing the scum team to decide between : the cop cleared player OR any and all of the PRs

That could still be LLD, with her serving the game as an IC instead of a memeber of the council. Otherwise, I am down for taking that role if for no other reason then to stop letting GL use "spin scum motivation into everything that Luke has to say about the game" as a tactic.

[GuiltyLion]

That could still be LLD, with her serving the game as an IC instead of a memeber of the council. Otherwise, I am down for taking that role if for no other reason then to stop letting GL use "spin scum motivation into everything that Luke has to say about the game" as a tactic.

bit rich coming from you considering I literally just tried to get you to help me see you as town and you spun that as "there is no town motivation for this post"

anyway I am catching that you are tilting me a bit too much and I need to work so I'm gonna peace out from the thread for a while, do your thing. If you wanna get copped I agree that's a good idea.

[UNOwen]

But I think I fundamentally disagree that the idea should to "either name king, and let king do all of the PR naming without other people's input OR democracy all positions" so I am not surprised at all to see VP giving input on the roles, and dont view it as "undercutting".

It's good that you disagree with that idea, I disagree with it too. There

is

an in between and I'm not saying whoever becomes king should rule by dictat. But there's a difference between giving input and giving instruction.

If you're trying to build a consensus before your proposal for king has even started discussing it, you are going to in effect be putting pressure on them to conform to whatever council the majority (or VPB + whoever else he got to participate in council decisions) wants. In which case you are undercutting the kings power. Since the objective is to put competent town on the throne, it seems like this would be more desirable for scum.

[VP Baltar]

VPB I'm voting you largely because I'm most confident you are town and you have momentum, and I'm really curious to see who is really actively against you being King because we are getting to a stage where I find scumreading you somewhat implausible on the whole. personally I've seen you as scum twice now and your vibes are different to me this game. I would also keep in mind there's only 4 players

actually voting you

right now, talk is cheap, votes are what matter.

I do kinda like your coalition idea because scum are going to have to acquiesce to a King at some point and it's a bit dangerous/naive to assume the rosy scenario esp in people supporting you that you think may be town but aren't voting you yet. I've been lazy and haven't thought a ton about Council Mechanics but I don't think a scum councilor is the worst thing in the world because whoever is in those spots (especially thinking like, the cop, master of coin, jailkeeper roles) is going to be forced into playing pro-town to some degree, going rogue to advance scum agenda early would immediately get flagged as scummy. I'd be fine with LLD or Mastina in council positions for that reason, I think in some worlds where we get out weak scum that actually might make the game harder for them if they're deep scum.

Yeah, I think scum can be boxed in a few ways on council, including just not funding their actions if we get really concerned.

So it's probably important to have town in King, Kingsguard, and Master of coin positions I think. Beyond that we can be a little flexible. Putting at least one scummy person in the kingsguard is probably helpful too because then that person needs to hood with more town players and prove their town credentials. Same would apply to council positions.

It's kind of why I want LLD to talk to me more because if she's town she's an asset to have some power, but I'll see if she responds to my last post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm at work. Long response posts need to wait for a computer friend.

[UNOwen]

VPB I'm voting you largely because I'm most confident you are town and you have momentum, and I'm really curious to see who is really actively against you being King because we are getting to a stage where I find scumreading you somewhat implausible on the whole. personally I've seen you as scum twice now and your vibes are different to me this game. I would also keep in mind there's only 4 players

actually voting you

right now, talk is cheap, votes are what matter.

Why are you considering VPB so obvtown, ignoring meta reasons?

[Charloux]

I'd like you both to read. Maybe skip the first 10-15 pages but i feel like some important stuff happened.

Like what for example?

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

this seems good.

I revoke your chad status you weakling. I thought you never cave in to demands.
Going off topic, how did you read all this in ~30minutes; I'm slow as a snail in that regard.

Frankly at this point I kind of want to be King given I am running very low on faith in other people today.

Best way to find a town!king is to shove the role on someone who explicitly said they dont want it. Need to read your ISO and dialogues to see if my intuition is correct tho.

If you are trying to work with town, then understand Mastina will not be king today and find something else to do.

Okay, so you want me to discard my whole stance on her? That's weird...

You don't need to discard the stance, you need to compromise. A lot of people don't want Mastina to be a king; So you should work with the others and decide amongst the more popular choices. Being stubborn and refusing to adapt to the situation is detrimental to town. I would tr you based on that tho.

I vibe with the instinct to be kingsguard cap. After reviewing the positions, that seems the most essential spot to put a town to avoid disaster, and why I also would like this spot since I know my alignment.

I will say that if you want my vote for king, you need to be more transparent about who you want where and why. Maybe you have a tendency in games, as Luke says, to hide your town read reasons. I'd say that doesn't work as well here because of the nature of the setup and town needing to cooperate well for best chance of success.

I agree that spot should be held by a strongarmed town. The problem is that i have never played with you and your desire to control the flow of the game strikes me as sus.
Your logic is sound tho, a kind candidate needs to be transparent about the people he plans to give the roles to. Who exactly knows the members of the council? If it includes the kingsguard there is no chance of scum not knowing who has what position.

Lol i never hided

Also you also force mastina just because of that, so

Yes, I do, but I also believe she is the best choice for town. I have yet to receive any objective reasoning she is not, and until I do, I will continue thinking she is what's best for town.

I have limited history with her, and it was terrible. Based on that her posts right now weird me out. I don't consider her even as a meme choice like with Enchant.

It seems odd that you'd take issue with me trying to advocate myself to be in an essential town position. I know my alignment and captain of the kingsguard is really key to be town.

You would say that as both alignments tho. To me you being town is ~70%. It would be 75% but i have a weak townread on Enchant and Fire.

I don't see anything weird about GL vs Lukewarm aka doesn't feel faked.

[PenguinPower]

I revoke your chad status you weakling. I thought you never cave in to demands.
Going off topic, how did you read all this in ~30minutes; I'm slow as a snail in that regard.

it was a fair point and this isn't a typical d1 where I can glean info from the votecount - also, it was a quick read through. I ignored most wallposting.

[PenguinPower]

I am a little scared to make LLD king

why?

[Rhaenyra]

I'd like you both to read. Maybe skip the first 10-15 pages but i feel like some important stuff happened.

Like what for example?

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

this seems good.

I revoke your chad status you weakling. I thought you never cave in to demands.
Going off topic, how did you read all this in ~30minutes; I'm slow as a snail in that regard.

Frankly at this point I kind of want to be King given I am running very low on faith in other people today.

Best way to find a town!king is to shove the role on someone who explicitly said they dont want it. Need to read your ISO and dialogues to see if my intuition is correct tho.

If you are trying to work with town, then understand Mastina will not be king today and find something else to do.

Okay, so you want me to discard my whole stance on her? That's weird...

You don't need to discard the stance, you need to compromise. A lot of people don't want Mastina to be a king; So you should work with the others and decide amongst the more popular choices. Being stubborn and refusing to adapt to the situation is detrimental to town. I would tr you based on that tho.

I vibe with the instinct to be kingsguard cap. After reviewing the positions, that seems the most essential spot to put a town to avoid disaster, and why I also would like this spot since I know my alignment.

I will say that if you want my vote for king, you need to be more transparent about who you want where and why. Maybe you have a tendency in games, as Luke says, to hide your town read reasons. I'd say that doesn't work as well here because of the nature of the setup and town needing to cooperate well for best chance of success.

I agree that spot should be held by a strongarmed town. The problem is that i have never played with you and your desire to control the flow of the game strikes me as sus.
Your logic is sound tho, a kind candidate needs to be transparent about the people he plans to give the roles to. Who exactly knows the members of the council? If it includes the kingsguard there is no chance of scum not knowing who has what position.

Lol i never hided

Also you also force mastina just because of that, so

Yes, I do, but I also believe she is the best choice for town. I have yet to receive any objective reasoning she is not, and until I do, I will continue thinking she is what's best for town.

I have limited history with her, and it was terrible. Based on that her posts right now weird me out. I don't consider her even as a meme choice like with Enchant.

It seems odd that you'd take issue with me trying to advocate myself to be in an essential town position. I know my alignment and captain of the kingsguard is really key to be town.

You would say that as both alignments tho. To me you being town is ~70%. It would be 75% but i have a weak townread on Enchant and Fire.

I don't see anything weird about GL vs Lukewarm aka doesn't feel faked.

I said objective reasoning. Do you know what it means? It means 'reasoning that doesn't involve your feelings on the matter at all, just the hard facts'.

[Rhaenyra]

Also, I too think she is a good choice based on my experience with her. If my experience with her doesn't count, then neither should anyone else's experience with her. So there.

[Charloux]

Objective reasoning: People don't want her to be king.
It doesn't matter why they don't; It's a fact they don't and objectively speaking Mastina won't be a king based on that.
Just because you don't understand it, it doesn't mean it's fake reasoning. You are treating the others the same way you were being treated when you wrote how frustrated you are.

[VP Baltar]

I agree that spot should be held by a strongarmed town. The problem is that i have never played with you and your desire to control the flow of the game strikes me as sus.
Your logic is sound tho, a kind candidate needs to be transparent about the people he plans to give the roles to. Who exactly knows the members of the council? If it includes the kingsguard there is no chance of scum not knowing who has what position.

I think we all know who is on the council? I mean, the king appoints, so the king can just tell us. I suppose that could be kept secret, but all the council members know because they have a hood. Any scum who gets in there will blab, so it probably means everyone should just know.

FWIW, I'm really not trying to strong arm who should be where. I understand it could come across that way. I just think someone needs to propose something rather than us debating king merits for 7 days. I absolutely invite people to shoot holes in my logic and thinking. I'd rather we are all talking and proposing ideas to move us in a solid direction. There is a benefit to seeing where people's heads are at (though LLD might disagree with that, I find transparency very important for games that require town agreement).

I also think as town, I'm decent at organizing people to move in a semi-unified direction. For example, in Guardians of the Fortress I made it a point to make a concrete proposal on where I thought all the players should go for the minigames there. I don't take my word as final at all, but making a pitch and building is better than spending D2 trying to figure this stuff out from scratch instead of scumhunting.

[Rhaenyra]

Why do they want as King then? Someone who'd put them in power? Cause the only reason they'll discard a good town leader is for a shitty reasoning like that. I mean, people have expressed who they want to be King: someone who is town, with good scumhunting skills and who is willing to sheep people. Mastina fulfils all three of those criteria. In other words, people are actively going against their own reasoning regarding who they want to be King.

[Rhaenyra]

Why do they want as King then? Someone who'd put them in power? Cause the only reason they'll discard a good town leader is for a shitty reasoning like that. I mean, people have expressed who they want to be King: someone who is town, with good scumhunting skills and who is willing to sheep people. Mastina fulfils all three of those criteria. In other words, people are actively going against their own reasoning regarding who they want to be King.

I am trying hard to understand, so help me understand, please?

[Rhaenyra]

Otherwise, I will refuse to cooperate.

[JunkoChan]

@Rhea You are over 150 posts.

[Rhaenyra]

@Rhea You are over 150 posts.

I know, but I the rules say we actually have a twenty post bonus we can use for the duration of the whole game. Read mod's iso if you don't believe me.

[Rhaenyra]

@Rhea You are over 150 posts.

Also, you're avoiding engaging me with crap like that.

[JunkoChan]

@Rhea You are over 150 posts.

I know, but I the rules say we actually have a twenty post bonus we can use for the duration of the whole game. Read mod's iso if you don't believe me.

20 bonus posts for naked votes only.

[JunkoChan]

Actually explain me pone more time why mastina should be Queen, I'll read it I promise