House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[GuiltyLion]

@GuiltyLion, I think we need to speak more directly because I have you as King but I don’t really see you interacting with my posts all that much (though you did voice that one of my questions made sense), so I know you’re at least reading me somewhat. What do you think of say my Town core?

sorry Andres, I missed this post on first go I think

I am with you on VPB/TSQ. I generally want to think Dann is town as well though I am finding myself maybe a bit (unfairly?) influenced by some of the anti-Dann sentiment in the thread, I am a lil bit wary cause if I challenge myself I don't think he's done anything that is strongly indicative. but I basically like all of his reads at the moment

why are you TRing Luke? I really don't see anything he's done as town-indicative at all, and from skimming your ISO again I see you just asserting a townread there without giving an explanation

[PenguinPower]

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

this seems good.

[Lukewarm]

with the overly explanatory LLD townread based on (imo) flimsy justification and lacking any visible doubt/paranoia, the extremely bad Datisi shade where he took Datisi wildly out of context, the busywork null read on Dann, it all just feels like pretend solving to me

This feels like you are also taking my posts out of context, and twisting them to call me scum.

the overly explanatory LLD townread based on (imo) flimsy justification and lacking any visible doubt/paranoia

Here was my read on LLD

I get town vibes from Andres's responses to LLD. I am also getting town vibes from LLD's play as well, although, not as strongly. With a splash of knowing she is good at scum.

So atm, I am at [ Andante, Junko, Andres, LLD ] town, in that order.

And then I was asked to explain those town vibes. And I did.

Lukewarm can you put words to your LLD read beyond town vibes

what about her play here do you think is unlikely to come from scum!her?

So you skipped past the post where I stated how strong my read was, and jumped to the post where I was directly answering "what part of this is giving you those town vibes" and are calling it scummy for it being "flimsy justification and lacking any visible doubt/paranoia."

---

And you did a similar thing with my comments on Dann when you said this

I'm questioning Luke's reasoning for why he thinks Dann is town on that basis there, because it feels kinda half-baked/shallow from Luke. I'm not trying to argue for town!Dann in that post, you've misread it if you think I am

Because, you skipped past the point where... I was not even making the arguement that Dann was town.

But since that has been explained, you shift the arguement instead to be

the busywork null read on Dann

Your original take was that it was too bad of a reason for me to call Dann town, but when i responded to tell you I was not calling him town, now the issue is that it is "busy work" for a null read... skipping past the fact that I was directly asked you explain it more.

can you elaborate on what has you conflicted?

----

As for Datisi

the extremely bad Datisi shade where he took Datisi wildly out of context

That simply did not happen. My entire point was about the exact context that it was said in.

But I am sure that this will be hit with a response that even with the context, you did not like the conclusion. But "looking for people who are talking about reads in the abstract instead of being focused on the particulars of this game" is just... something I look for. Whether other people think it is a valid reason or not.

I actually just used that same line of thinking to call scum!Titus scum in Datisi's cafe. Albeit on a different scale because of the context where Titus was doing it vs what I saw from Datisi.

[Lukewarm]

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

this seems good.

I do not want a GL king.

[GuiltyLion]

since you have andante in your "I wouldn't lim today but they can be wolves" what do you think about andante read progression? do you think it's natural for her to drop her scumread on me without adressing it, and follow up to that it's another question on me that lead to nothing?

her argument is that those reads were far away from eachother but I don't think you can just forget something that happened recently in irl time

this isn't out of character for Andante from what I've seen, I agree it's weird but check her ISO in KTANE - she did a lot of sudden read 180s that I had a hard time understanding and she was town there.

oh no, i didn't mean the question as "why am i so low", i meant it as "why am i so high" because i'm not recalling a single positive thing you've said about my alignment this game (i'm not counting disliking luke's reasons for scum-me)

oh lol - tbh I think it's a combo of 1) I want you to be town, but more seriously 2) I liked your interactions/call outs with both Luke and Dwlee, as well as the early VPB vote + the fact that you've stuck with it. Overall I don't really think you've been disingenuous anywhere other than maybe that 508 sarcasm post

I guesssss you could be scum doing Good Distancing with other scum and buddying Baltar but that's paranoia world and not worth seriously considering yet pre-any flips

[PenguinPower]

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

ok - but i do
this seems good.

I do not want a GL king.

[PenguinPower]

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

ok - but i do
this seems good.

I do not want a GL king.

not sure why it blanked my text...

I said - "ok - but I do"

[Lukewarm]

i find it really dubious that that *one* line from me that luke considers empty engagement would actually shoot me down in the bottomest tier in his reads

My response to the one line was to think "oh, I did not like that"

It was the following interaction that I had with you that actually moved you to the bottom tier.

[GuiltyLion]

Your original take was that it was too bad of a reason for me to call Dann town, but when i responded to tell you I was not calling him town, now the issue is that it is "busy work" for a null read... skipping past the fact that I was directly asked you explain it more.

it

was

a bad reason to call Dann town

whether you ultimately called him town or not is

entirely irrelevant

, because your thought process is what I was critiquing, not the end read

I already explained this, you are either missing the point or taking me out of context in an extremely pedantic way. which is it?

I have thoughts on your other stuff too but this is the big one and a good microcosm of all my issues with your play so far

[Lukewarm]

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

ok - but i do
this seems good.

I do not want a GL king.

not sure why it blanked my text...

I said - "ok - but I do"

Well, you had me down as town, so I thought it worth a shot to tell you that I am scum scum reading him, and ask you to reconsider.

[PenguinPower]

yes - i'm aware that both of you are scum reading each other.

why do you think should baltar be king?

[Datisi]

It was the following interaction that I had with you that actually moved you to the bottom tier.

what do you find scummy about it, lukewarm?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, can you bullet point your town read on me again? Am I your strongest townread?

[GuiltyLion]

I think if Luke is town here, he's just entirely not on the same wavelength with me at all. seems very focused on the literal reads themselves and not at all grokking that what I have issues with is all of the logic / reasoning he is expressing as to how he arrived at those reads.

Luke, I truly barely care at all what the actual strength of your actual LLD read is. What I care about is that everything you said in 657 is just not compelling or believable reasons to townread LLD,

especially

a player of her caliber, like all of what you said could easily be faked or is based on her not playing in a specific way you would expect her to as scum. and I believe someone who is uninformed and trying to earnestly solve wouldn't arrive at these reasons to call her town. It gives me a strong vibe of you

wanted

to express a townread on LLD, so you sat down and came up with things that you think

should

indicate that she's town - rather than looking at what she's actually done and figuring out how you feel about it. That's what I mean when I say your posts feel motivated or backwards-derived, all your logic gives me a vibe that it started with the conclusion and then finds arguments you can use to support that conclusion

[GuiltyLion]

and that includes things like the Dann read, because there the conclusion was "conflicted", so you listed a few things that could be townie and a few things that could be scummy. But one of the things you said could be townie

doesn't really make a lot of sense

and is

not compelling

, which is why I say that I have a hard time believing it, it doesn't matter where you actually landed on Dann

[Datisi]

Datisi, can you bullet point your town read on me again? Am I your strongest townread?

- reactios to mech aren't over the top
- you don't seem scared to interact with me properly and have a stance on me that makes sense; this was heavily lacking in the large normal
- nothing yet that pinged me as alarming and wrong

the only * is that you are aware of the large normal and might be purposefully playing around it - but i don't think this is very likely as i am not feeling alarmed at anything

strongest townread? idk. i think close to the top definitely. i don't have a list in mind yet sorry, i've skipped over a few pages

[Lukewarm]

yes - i'm aware that both of you are scum reading each other.

why do you think should baltar be king?

I'll walk you through my process:

I looked at the people that I thought were town

4. Andresvmb
6. Andante
8. VPBaltar
17. Junkochan
18. Lady Lambdadelta

And I don't really trust Andante or Junko to be a very good king (sorry) - I am a little scared to make LLD king. - That left Andres and Baltar.


I went and checked the vote count

Lady Lambdadelta [4]:

mastina, Charloux, Titus, Rhaenyra,
-

VP Baltar [1]:

Datisi

Andresvmb [1]:

VP Baltar

Reconsidered if I was willing to just relent for LLD, but decided against it.

I saw that Datisi was voting Baltar, and went and looked at when / why he did that.

ok so uhhh

andante town, dannflor firebringer and vp baltar feel town

VOTE: vp baltar anyone?

my usual way of reading vp baltar is "townread him if he does something that i don't think scum-him would do", HOWEVER i have realized that i can use a "townread him if he does not do something that i know scum-him would do" here

i'm realizing how much i actually rely on being able to push stuff with my votes and how it's throwing me off, which is annoying but oh well

this does not look like a scum nominating another scum, because it does not actually even try to look sheepable. Even his follow up in 381 is not made in a way that is particularly digestable by anyone other then Baltar himself and is buried as a single part to a much larger post responding to multiple things.

So, I figured it was limited to 3 worlds:

The bad one:
Town!Datisi nominating scum!Baltar. Which requires both my own read on Baltar and a town!Datisi's read on Baltar to be wrong here.

The good ones:
Town!Datisi nominating town!Baltar. Which great.

Scum!Datisi nominating town!Baltar, in an attempt to pocket him. Which if we *are* in this world, that is a town Baltar with a scum vote already on him that would be kind of *locked* on him once he became a viable wagon, because he would not want to look awkward leaving it after making the case that he did, the moment that Baltar started getting votes.

Making it an easier wagon to actually go through between him and Andres.

[JunkoChan]

@lukewarm That's mean

I don't want this people as town or heir: Baltar Enchant Rhae mastina Penguinpower Andres UNO

[Thestatusquo]

okay - quick read through

Agree that mastina should not be king
Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy
Datisi probably scum
Tsq/gl/luke/dann town
Junko town?
Had a townread on andante but lost it by 920
No idea what to make of rhea
I’m gonna withhold comment on mastina assigning alignment to my v/la so I don’t lose it..she’s probably town though
Charloux probs scum

VOTE: gl

this seems good.

Thank you!

[JunkoChan]

sorry had 2 thoughts when writing that I don't feel okay townreading any of those plus I don't want them to be king

[JunkoChan]

add Andante to that too actually, I'm literally okay with anyone else

[VP Baltar]

@lukewarm That's mean

I don't want this people as town or heir: Baltar Enchant Rhae mastina Penguinpower Andres UNO

Can you explain andres and Uno to me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think if Luke is town here, he's just entirely not on the same wavelength with me at all. seems very focused on the literal reads themselves and not at all grokking that what I have issues with is all of the logic / reasoning he is expressing as to how he arrived at those reads.

Luke, I truly barely care at all what the actual strength of your actual LLD read is. What I care about is that everything you said in 657 is just not compelling or believable reasons to townread LLD,

especially

a player of her caliber, like all of what you said could easily be faked or is based on her not playing in a specific way you would expect her to as scum. and I believe someone who is uninformed and trying to earnestly solve wouldn't arrive at these reasons to call her town. It gives me a strong vibe of you

wanted

to express a townread on LLD, so you sat down and came up with things that you think

should

indicate that she's town - rather than looking at what she's actually done and figuring out how you feel about it. That's what I mean when I say your posts feel motivated or backwards-derived, all your logic gives me a vibe that it started with the conclusion and then finds arguments you can use to support that conclusion

Why is Luke scum for having a townread based on his experiences with me but you aren't for describing my quality of play and aiming to prevent anyone from being able to read me as town?

Like at what point does the paranoia about being able to see me as town become an eventful act to prevent me from taking a foothold in this game, as a scum action?

You and Luke are on two sides of the same coin, doing 2 different things with your concern and understanding of me but at least in my mind Luke is nailed down with a reasoning that checked out from our prior experience from my PoV. You are just waving in a general area and not attempting to read me at all, only by proxy of discrediting Luke have you given any alignment on me.

[Thestatusquo]

I think if Luke is town here, he's just entirely not on the same wavelength with me at all. seems very focused on the literal reads themselves and not at all grokking that what I have issues with is all of the logic / reasoning he is expressing as to how he arrived at those reads.

Luke, I truly barely care at all what the actual strength of your actual LLD read is. What I care about is that everything you said in 657 is just not compelling or believable reasons to townread LLD,

especially

a player of her caliber, like all of what you said could easily be faked or is based on her not playing in a specific way you would expect her to as scum. and I believe someone who is uninformed and trying to earnestly solve wouldn't arrive at these reasons to call her town. It gives me a strong vibe of you

wanted

to express a townread on LLD, so you sat down and came up with things that you think

should

indicate that she's town - rather than looking at what she's actually done and figuring out how you feel about it. That's what I mean when I say your posts feel motivated or backwards-derived, all your logic gives me a vibe that it started with the conclusion and then finds arguments you can use to support that conclusion

Do you think town never does this as an attempt to put more meat on the bone of what is a vibe? I feel like I do. And I thought that was what Luke was claiming to have done.

[GuiltyLion]

add Andante to that too actually, I'm literally okay with anyone else

to be clear - you're okay with Charloux, Bella, and Titus?

That group of people feels weird to me. You've said you had Andres as town earlier, why are you not ok with him being King?