Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)

[sirdanilot]

What is wrong with Qc4? It stops the black king from castling and is a good offensive move. It unpins the bishop but black can unpin itself anyway. It opens up the way for our bishop.

I see a problem though, a black d5 can stop our queen in her tracks. I don't really understand the merit of Qb5 though.

I'm not sure yet.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

For a time, I considered 10. Ne5, but I think that move is a little premature.

I don't see how playing the fianchetto now would be to our detriment. In fact, I think that playing it now would set us up for a relatively quick victory.

However, I worry that I have been missing some possible attack by black, so if you can think of a line of attack by black that could seriously threaten us within the next three moves, please point it out so we can take that into consideration.

Sorry for the lack of grand statements and discussion; I underestimated many things this week.

However, I would

move: g3

at this juncture, with the possibility to move

Ne5

now. However, I see much more enticing lines in our future than 10. Ne5, which is essentially asking black to make a mistake rather than pressing our advantage in a meaningful way.

[Awesome Pants]

The "wow, this isn't an end of day votecount" votecount.

Moves

g3 (3) - Pesco47, Gorrad, The Central Scrutinizer
Qb5 (2) - SensFan, Lawrencelot
Qc4 (1) - Indigo Heron

Not voting (3) - sirdanilot, Doomsday, Goatrevolt

Players

Not voting (9) - SensFan, Goatrevolt, Lawrencelot, sirdanilot, Indigo Heron, Gorrad, Doomsday, Pesco47, The Central Scrutinizer

5 to lynch/move

[Pesco47]

Not voting (8)

@Mod: We got a voteless?

[Awesome Pants]

Not voting (8)

@Mod: We got a voteless?

Erm, nope, that's just me being lazy and using the last votecount as a template and not properly changing everything. Fixed now!

[Pesco47]

Looking at the board now, Ne4 seems pretty certain to happen no matter where we move. The only difference is when the move will be played. Thinking abut that, Nh4 comes to my mind as a way to shake things up. Thoughts?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I don't like Nh4. It moves our knight to the edge of the board only enough to threaten a pawn that can easily be protected by 10. Nh4 g6. We lose a point of power in the center, as well as putting a knight in the path of the very bishop that is unpinned by Ne5. I think we move 10. g3 now, and either play 11. g2 or 11. h4 next turn depending upon the board situation. All 10. ... Ne5 really does is place a black knight on a protected square in the center... which is scary, I'll grant you, but not so scary because he has no forks for us.

At this point I think that black is effectively behind in development due to its current lack of queen play. And in all actuality, I don't think that Ne5 is an inevitability. 10. ... d6 is probably a better move for black in the long run. I shouldn't say that, but I'm playing under the assumption that mafia knows what they are doing.

[Indigo Heron]

Moderator, can you please prod everyone?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Maybe you can explain why you're still voting Qc4.

[Awesome Pants]

Everyone has been prodded.

Also, I am going overseas at the end of the week so someone will be replacing me as moderator then. They will most likely be using my account as it has modding priviledges in this thread so you probably won't even notice a difference, but I hope you enjoy the remainder of this game if I don't get to mod it again after I leave! Have fun.

[Lawrencelot]

I'm still here. I'm not convinced that I should change my vote, yet.

[Pesco47]

I'm here too. It would have been boring to go and post every single available move and analyse it.

[Gorrad]

I am here. I have yet to see a good reason not to go g3, so I've really got nothing.

[Indigo Heron]

Maybe you can explain why you're still voting Qc4.

The whole point of White playing Qc4 is to force Black to play d5, steadily stripping away his pawn defence. After d5, White follows up with Qb5+. Black can either reply with Bd7 or Qd7. I won't explain this step thoroughly, or Black will get a forewarning of what is happening.

Bd7 follows up with Qxb7. I can safely assume that Black is going to feel incredibly threatened at this point, and play O-O. So, White plays Ne5 to advance on the enemy.

If Black plays Qd7, White plays Ne5 anyway. Black will have to capture the Queen or be captured. Thus, a trade of Queens ensures - Qxb5, followed by Bxb5+. This leaves Black with two obvious moves, and perhaps one subtle move (I'm not sure about you guys - it took me 15 minutes thinking about the position and imagining myself as Black to see the 3rd move).

[sirdanilot]

Maybe you can explain why you're still voting Qc4.

The whole point of White playing Qc4 is to force Black to play d5, steadily stripping away his pawn defence. After d5, White follows up with Qb5+. Black can either reply with Bd7 or Qd7. I won't explain this step thoroughly, or Black will get a forewarning of what is happening.

Bd7 follows up with Qxb7. I can safely assume that Black is going to feel incredibly threatened at this point, and play O-O. So, White plays Ne5 to advance on the enemy.

If Black plays Qd7, White plays Ne5 anyway. Black will have to capture the Queen or be captured. Thus, a trade of Queens ensures - Qxb5, followed by Bxb5+. This leaves Black with two obvious moves, and perhaps one subtle move (I'm not sure about you guys - it took me 15 minutes thinking about the position and imagining myself as Black to see the 3rd move).

Seems like a well thought out move. I was first opposing Qc4 because of the d5 move, but now it makes sense that the d5 move is actually bad for black.

move Qc4

[Pesco47]

Fine let's go Qc4. We need to move anyway.

Unmove, Move Qc4

[Goatrevolt]

Seems like a well thought out move. I was first opposing Qc4 because of the d5 move, but now it makes sense that the d5 move is actually bad for black.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. I didn't look into it any further than Qc4...d5, Qb5...Qd7, which appeared to be solid for black.

Move Qc4

[Awesome Pants]

Going to look for a replacement for Doomsday.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

All Qc4 will do is essentially plunge the game into mediocre suicide-chess. I'm not really that inspired by suicide-chess.

[Indigo Heron]

Do you have a better idea?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What

don't

you like about playing the king-side fianchetto at this stage of the game? Is it too laid back?

[Awesome Pants]

veerus replaces Doomsday. Say hi!

[Lawrencelot]

What is a fianchetto? Qc4 looks good to me after Indigo's post, I'll refrain from voting so The CS can explain his move (sorry if you already did, but I need to hear why it's better than Qc4).

[sirdanilot]

All Qc4 will do is essentially plunge the game into mediocre suicide-chess. I'm not really that inspired by suicide-chess.

This isn't helping. Explain in detail why your move is better than the proposed move, rather than a general play style comment that doesn't help white at all. And you did a logical fallacy here. 'this is why X is good' 'x is bad' 'why is Y better then' 'tell me why you don't like Y over X'. Reply to the question instead of avoiding it.

FoS The Central Scrutinizer

Also, do you mean fianchetto as in gambit, maneuver, tactic...?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What is a fianchetto? Qc4 looks good to me after Indigo's post, I'll refrain from voting so The CS can explain his move (sorry if you already did, but I need to hear why it's better than Qc4).

Sorry, I like trying to seem like I know things at times. A fianchetto is where you move the knight's pawn one space forward and move the bishop onto the long diagonal. This gives us power in the middle, piece development, and the chance to castle ourselves.

So essentially: 10. g3 ... 11. Bg2. I don't see anything black can set up in two moves that essentially destabilizes our position. I would like to solidify it before we start taking pieces. As it is, the most likely line of Qc4 is a series of reciprocal captures ending in no clear advantage for either side.