Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[Wall-E]

EBWOP: Sometimes I forget to mention my motivations. It's a bad habit. Call me on it and I'll try to make it up.

[Mirth]

"Attention all personnel all personnel you may have the rest of the night off, as I have more important things to do."

VOTE COUNT

Wall-E - 5 - [Nameless, Plum, animorpherv, orangepenguin, GnKoichi]

GnKoihi - 3 - [Stef, Kmd, charter]

charter - 1 - [Wall-E]
Nameless - 1- [TonyMontana]
TonyMontana - 1 - [Kiro]

Not Voting - 1 - [Mana_Ku]

[GnKoichi]

Wall-E: I didn't set a trap for you. I wanted to help wake you up. It seems that this still took place, as that was a much better post than you've been giving lately. I was hoping to do that to you, get you to post a good defense of yourself, and then pretend to be swayed and move my vote back to Charter. The end result of this would have been to get you to defend yourself against those who really do think you are scum.

But in the middle of that Charter tipped his hand. His actions normally don't make any sense, which is why I had a scum read on him before. Now, there was a theory that made most of his actions, especially recent ones, make perfect sense. He was your scum parter, trying to to distance himself from you early in the game, and then having to work a little too hard to protect you without being able to come up with a reason for that sudden "knight in shining armor" strategy.

It wasn't your actions that revealed you as scum. It was your partner's.

[Wall-E]

GnKoichi, I have agreed with some of your points in this game, but you are way off track with the charter/me team theory. I'm not saying charter's not scum. I did get a strong sense of scum off charter/Nameless, but I have no supporting evidence that can withstand specific scrutiny from a point-of-view which is assuming I'm lying. I therefore dropped my line of attack. I still suspect charter. You'll notice I'm still voting for him.

You are flat wrong, so I invite anyone to say anything indicating otherwise in the hopes of changing minds. I will continue to vote for charter until such time as I find a more definite scum or he is lynched.

[TonyMontana]

Unvote

[face_palm]
Sorry, work has been killing me this week, I'll try to make more time this weekend.

[Wall-E]

"Knight in Shining Armor" - I was the first person to use this phrase. It was to describe charter's defense of Nameless.

[GnKoichi]

Wall-E, are you trying to use something from an argument that you readily abandoned in order to defend yourself?

Or are you just trying to lay claim to a phrase that was coined centuries ago?

[Wall-E]

I'm saying that my brain first popped up with it. I don't know what you meant to reference by using it, so I was clarifying what I used it for.

Knight in Shining Armor

[GnKoichi]

What? Your brain used it first? I wasn't referencing your post by saying this. I was using the phrase to describe you. I was referencing the classical ideal of chivalry, not quoting you from earlier.

[Wall-E]

'Kay, 'cause when I used it I was describing scum rescuing town or scum. Sorry for the confusion.

[GnKoichi]

EBWOP: Used it to describe Charter, not you.

Mana has been prodded. Just letting y'all know.

[charter]

unvote, vote GK

Calling this now, GK is scum and Wall-E is not.

This is the part where you explain why.

Why I voted for GK? I've given plenty of reasons to vote for him. Why I think GK is scum and Wall-E is not? Just a feeling, obviously I don't know.

Wall-E: I assume you're referring to me. Charter is the one who hasn't given reasons for his last two votes. My reasons were made extremely clear in posts 285 & 289. They're on this page. They may not have been lengthy arguments. They were concise. Pretending they aren't there isn't helping yours or Charter's case.

Cute. So Wall-E feebly questions GK, and his immediate response is 'you should be looking at charter! He voted but didn't post his reasons, look at charter! Not me!'

unvote, vote GK

Calling this now, GK is scum and Wall-E is not.

I agree with Nameless that I'd like an explaination of this, and personally find votes without decent cases scummy.

Are you guys kidding me?!?!? My vote was on GK for the longest time. The reasons for voting him then are still valid now and are more than enough to lynch. Plus, if you can not see the avalanche of terrible logic and scumminess radiating from GK then you are in need of help, but fear not, for say the word and I will cite it for you.

My vote on OP was because he popped in to do literally nothing but jump on the largest wagon. I hoped that by voting him (and not giving any reasons) he would say something more or get more active.

Wall-E's 299 is correct. Coincidence.

[GnKoichi]

My vote on OP was because he popped in to do literally nothing but jump on the largest wagon. I hoped that by voting him (and not giving any reasons) he would say something more or get more active.

Irony is Ironic.

Seriously, my case against Charter is basically writing itself at this point. If people are willing, I'd really like to move the votes from Wall-E to Charter, but I'll accept taking Wall-E out because of my strong theory that they are scum buddies.

[charter]

I mean that OP has said NOTHING about ANYTHING. I could care less the reasons that he gave (or didn't give) for voting Wall-E. The fact was that he comes out of lurking to do nothing but vote Wall-E. Gives no opinions on anyone else. I've said plenty about other people.

[Kmd4390]

GnK, if we lynch one, are you going to assume the others alignment based on the flip? Like if we lynch Wall-E, and he flips scum, do you automatically assume Charter is scum too? Or if Wall-E flips town, do you assume Charter is town? Same questions if we lynch Charter, but with Wall-E's alignment.

[GnKoichi]

Charter: So your first thought is to vote for him? You didn't even try to ask him. At least when I gave my vote to shake up Wall-E (a similar reason) I tried talking to him first. And what's your reasoning for suddenly finding Wall-E a townie just as everyone else begins to think otherwise? You've done nothing to actually defend my accusation; you've just made weak excuses.

Kmd: I think it's a strike against them, since it helps my theory. But it doesn't mean for sure, and would certainly require a reread on my part to make the theory complete or end up dismissing it. That would be the case if they flip town, as well, since there are scum reads on both of them independent of my idea that they are scum buddies.

[Plum]

Just to let everyone know that there's a 25+ hour window between Friday evening and Saturday evening when I'm not on. This time of year that will probably mean you'll get a short-ish, early post Friday afternoon out of me and normal posting Saturday night.

Charter: Ah, so your vote falls back on your previous case plus gut? I personally don't like his logic about you 'misleading the town', so I see where you're coming from there, I guess. Yeah, you've made a case on him, though a 'see my previous vote and case which still stand' might have made me less apt to question.

My vote against Wall-E was meant as a warning. I still had a somewhat town read on him at that point.

Suddenly it made sense. I still believe Charter is scum, and now he had revealed his partner. He and Wall-E had set themselves up as against each other over the issue of, well, me, very early. They voted for each other to seal the deal. Why would scum vote for each other? But it probably looked like a safe bet back then, since I was a good candidate for our first Lynch. Then, Wall-E got a little sloppy in his Nameless argument, and drew a few votes. Ani's vote put Wall-E at L-2, so Charter pulled his vote, and tried to throw a quick vote at Ani (perhaps to scare the new player away from voting that way). Then I put my 'scare' vote on Wall-E, and Charter was forced to try to return the focus to me.

n the middle of that Charter tipped his hand.

It wasn't your actions that revealed you as scum. It was your partner's.

I'd really like to move the votes from Wall-E to Charter, but I'll accept taking Wall-E out because of my strong theory that they are scum buddies.

[T]here are scum reads on both of them independent of my idea that they are scum buddies.

Even if I don't like or accept your case on Charter, GnK, at least I know that and why you're suspicious of him. But your case on Wall-E seems to be 'Charter seems to be defending him/voting those who vote for him/taking his vote off him as the count climbs higher, plus I have a scum read on Charter'. But as your interpetation of Charter's recent votes are very subjective that I don't see them as by themselves being a valid argument for Wall-E being scum. You go from 'I have a town read on Wall-E and voted him to get him to make better posts and not get lynched' (WTH?) to 'Charter's votes make me think Wall-E is his scumbuddy' to 'I have a scum read on Wall-E'. What do you see scummy in Wall-E?

[Kmd4390]

GnK, as long as you aren't trying to get a chain lynch out of it, I can accept that.

I actually can see a GnK/Wall-E connection. GnK says he tried to help Wall-E by voting (I don't get this) and then called Wall-E scum with Charter. If Wall-E and GnK are scum together, and we lynch Wall-E, Wall-E will flip scum, and GnK can push for Charter and say that he was right about Wall-E.

[charter]

Charter: So your first thought is to vote for him? You didn't even try to ask him. At least when I gave my vote to shake up Wall-E (a similar reason) I tried talking to him first. And what's your reasoning for suddenly finding Wall-E a townie just as everyone else begins to think otherwise? You've done nothing to actually defend my accusation; you've just made weak excuses.

Don't even try and equate these two situations. They are totally different. Don't try and glorify your actions either, they've been terrible this game to say the least.
Wall-E has been anything but a lurker, OP has been nothing but a lurker. And my reason for finding Wall-E town is that you and him are not scumbuddies, which leaves you. Go ahead and call me out for just stating it, I'm not going to tell how I know this right now, and don't even try and push the "charter must know cause he's scum" crap. I'm actually getting really fed up with this game and a lot of the people letting you off the hook despite the mountain of evidence pointing towards you being scum.

Kmd, make all the theories you want, that's fine with me. From the one you just posted there, GK is the lynch that makes the most sense today, yes?

[Kmd4390]

From the one you just posted there, GK is the lynch that makes the most sense today, yes?

And where is my vote?

[GnKoichi]

Plum: Clarification: I meant that there are other people who had a scum read on Wall-E before I made my argument, so it wouldn't be a stretch to find evidence against him if Charter flipped scum. If my theory of Charter/Wall-E were to fall apart, I would be much more wary of voting for Wall-E. Like I said, I'd rather take out Charter, because I have a much stronger read on him, but the group was already leaning towards Wall-E, and I really think that Charter made a mistake and revealed his partner.

Charter: So, telling me not to do this ahead of time isn't really a defense. To say that you "know" that Wall-E & I aren't scum buddies only has three implications:

1) You actually do know this because you are scum buddies with Wall-E.

2) You do not know this, you have a hunch like you said earlier, and you are again being misleading.

3) You have access to information that you should not have access to, and are a cheater.

So, which is it?

[charter]

Oh, thought it was on Wall-E, my bad.

[GnKoichi]

Making a post in case Charter didn't see that we posted at the same time. Also, seriously guys, this is the end of my argument. No matter what he says in response, Charter either just admitted to being outright Scum or purposefully misleading, which was my case all along. Can we get everybody on the Lynch Charter train now?

[animorpherv1]

My vote on OP was because he popped in to do literally nothing but jump on the largest wagon. I hoped that by voting him (and not giving any reasons) he would say something more or get more active.

Irony is Ironic.

QFT.

[Nameless]

No matter what he says in response, Charter either just admitted to being outright Scum or purposefully misleading, which was my case all along ...

... 2) You do not know this, you have a hunch like you said earlier, and you are again being misleading.

GK,

no.

Let's

not

start lynching people based on the terminology they're using when announcing their suspicions. Really.

I'm still not liking Charter's recent votes. GK actually makes a good point regarding their timing, although Charter makes a good point regarding the deflection of GK's #294 and GK's "I wanted to help wake you up" has crossed the line from newbie to BS scummy.

Meanwhile, Wall-E has done nothing to look less scummy, made the weak excuse that he "forgets" to mention motivations and I don't even know what the heck he was on about the "Knight in Shining Armour" phrase for. That combined with the earlier swearing and "lets see YOU do any better" comments sound incredibly out of place for anybody over the age of twelve and who has played in as many games as he has.

I'd really like all three to be scum, but this situation feels like a train wreck. Wall-E definitively has to go, but I'm starting to feel the rest of the scum will be among the lurkers trying to stay unconnected to Wall-E and watching a townie Charter and GK tear each other apart. (I'm especially think of OP here.)