Crackers! Mafia -- Game Over. See page 50

[Kison]

Vote: Guardian

.

Am pretty sure he knows why.

Nice to see Raging Rabbit again. I figured you were a done deal after that fiasco between you and Twito.

[Kison]

Looks like I could be in trouble unless I make something clear. Little stud muffin under my name is

not

MrBuddyLee, DGB, so please don't go jihad on me like you did with him.

Actually, it's his long lost cousin, PimpDaddyLee.

[Kison]

Still am, in fact.

[Kison]

Kison, why go along with the joke that you are busing me?

Because it's precisely what you're calling it: a joke

[Kison]

Clearly I need to get rid of the cat.

[Kison]

unvote, vote: BM

For two consecutive posts without a vote. Shame on you.

Good catch, but I'm already voting for his buddy, Kison.

Damn. Well, at least you'll never find out who my other buddy is!

*cough*Sensfan*cough*

BM

What's with the WIFOM?

FOS: Battle Mage

This is the first FOS I've pointed in about 12 months. Consider it seriously hardcore.

Why do you FoS Battle Mage for this comment, but not FoS me for this one:

*cough*Sensfan*cough*

BM

Liar, Kison was bus'ing Guardian.

Still am, in fact.

To whomever asked me what I think of Battle Mage, I think for the most part his zany behavior matches what I remember from playing with him ages ago. Which doesn't say much. The only thing from him which I find even remotely alarming so far is his declaration that he is pretty sure CKD is Town so early in the game.

More later. Must leave right now.

[Kison]

des is so town

Why?

unvote, vote: ckd

scum hate it so much when town starts clearing other town, it makes it so much harder to get mislynches

Except that he makes a good point. Why have you 'cleared'(your words) destructor so early in the game?

We should let the SK kill some Mafia for us first.

1. roflcopter
2. Yosarian2
3. Raging Rabbit
4. Kison

i'm on that shortlist why?

more interestingly, yosarian is on that list why?

again, questions to get things started?..maybe...why does he not ask about RR and Kison?...sometime just doesnt feel right.

He already explained this. He asked about Yosarian2 because he was the one who hadn't done anything to indicate he was scum because he hadn't even posted yet.

I understand and agree with FuriousKarmaDog on one point. roflcopter said in his own words:

1) "des is so town"
2) "scum hate it so much when town starts clearing other town, it makes it so much harder to get mislynches"
3) "i'm not about to give a playbook as to what makes someone seem protown to me."

Note he is implies he is indeed clearing Destructor as Town at this point in the game and does indeed avoid stating what gives him this feeling.

I disagree with just about everything else he said, primarily the buddying - I didn't get that impression nor do I think his focus on Yosarian2 from the list is bothering. I'd like roflcopter to point out what des has done to give him the level of confidence he has that he is Town. I'd demand FuriousDog to do the same with his 'gut' but he already has.

More on the next episode of Crackers Mafia, Kison's PoV.

[Kison]

kison deserves some closer scrutiny

Why?

and ckd, i have been saying that my town read on des is a gut read just like your scum read on me is, not that my vote on you is gut. my vote on you is perfectly well reasoned, and has nothing to do with oh my god sucking you.

god what an astute comment! des is

so

town its like blindingly obvious.

He's so town that it's blindingly obvious, yet it's also unexplainable because it's a gut read?

Unvote

Vote: roflcoptor

DGB said rofl and I are 100% town, which seems a bigger statement than rofl ever made. I'm wondering why ckd and Kison are making rofl the bigger deal here and in fact saying nothing about DGB at all.

I had contemplated it, but I've played with DrippingGoofball before. She's crazy(I say this lovingly) and does that sort of thing. Note she 'pegged' the three scum and Serial Killer. A very similar line of thinking in the madness that is DrippingGoofball's mind. Simply put, I do not know how to deal with zany players like DrippingGoofball. It's like trying to deal with the Battle Mage version 1.0.

i think its in our best interest to reach a lynch in this game before deadline (well before deadline, ideally) to give scum less time to make an optimal kill or possibly catch them off guard and deprive them of a kill altogether.

And what does less time mean for Town? Less time to reach an optimal lynch. Read this. Similar strategy. Catastrophic consequences.

[Kison]

kison deserves some closer scrutiny

Why?

you pretty well demonstrate why with the rest of what follows in your post

You made the comment before I posted, which means you had an idea of why I deserved scrutiny based on previous actions, yet you dodged the question and focused only on my more recent attacks. So I'll ask again: what did I do before my last post that led you to conclude I deserved more scrutiny?

thats a nice excuse for selectively persecuting one person instead of another for doing the same thing. what makes me any less "zany" than dgb?

*shrug* There are very few players who I am going to give leeway towards, but she happens to be one of them. It's not that I find it 'acceptable', but I'm far less willing to assume that DrippingGoofball in particular making ridiculous statements of that sort indicates one way or another that she is scum or town. I don't know how to read her, and I think you'll find that many people in this game who've played with her before know that she has a very unusual demeanor.

and ckd, i have been saying that my town read on des is a gut read just like your scum read on me is, not that my vote on you is gut. my vote on you is perfectly well reasoned, and has nothing to do with oh my god sucking you.

god what an astute comment! des is

so

town its like blindingly obvious.

He's so town that it's blindingly obvious, yet it's also unexplainable because it's a gut read?

Unvote

Vote: roflcoptor

this smells an awful lot like a chainsaw defense of ckd

I disagree; I'm not defending CKD, but rather one of his arguments. Why? Because I think the argument in question is valid.

[Kison]

[Kison]

Why do you FoS Battle Mage for this comment, but not FoS me for this one

Why did you want to know this?

Because they were similar comments with inconsistent responses. I hadn't remembered that I said I was joking, though.

Kison is scum for casting aspersions on roflcopter's unblemished record as townie town town in this game.

His case is absolute rubbish but he's perhaps hoping we interpret his actions as bus'ing after we lynch or vig him.

Not by the hair on my chinny chin chin.

ckd, kison: how does bm's declaration that ckd is protown differ from my own about des,

You implied that you are clearing destructor. I can't fathom how someone can be that certain of someone's alignment without the ability to point to what makes them feel that way.

and why has it gone ignored by you two up to this point?

It hasn't:

The only thing from him which I find even remotely alarming so far is his declaration that he is pretty sure CKD is Town so early in the game.

But now that BM is back he can go ahead and point out what CKD has done to make him say that.

Also, the reason I switched my vote to you is because you've shown resistance to multiple requests that you point out what Destructor has done to make you feel so certain he's town. That leads me to believe you simply said it without meaning it. Instead, ever since I pointed out that one thing I disliked, you've taken the stance that I'm scumnage rather than address my concern.

[Kison]

des, are you accusing me of not scumhunting?

He's so town that it's blindingly obvious, yet it's also unexplainable because it's a gut read?

Unvote
Vote: roflcoptor

I see what my beef with this is. a) rofl's "blindingly obvious" comment was a very clear hyperbole, and b) "blindingly obvious" doesn't even come close to contradicting the statement that it was a gut read on des. This is pure, unadulterated BS.

Disagree. When you're willing to clear someone and make statements like this, you should be damn well capable of figuring out why you have such a strong town read on that individual. My stance on 'gut' is closer to Vollkan's hardcore disapproval of them; it's an easy cop out for not backing your reads on an individual. Something causes your 'gut' to tell you one thing or another; you simply have to find out what it is. (and it looks like he finally did)

so, now that i've pointed out why i find des to be so protown, are you gonna stop voting me, or are you gonna manufacture another reason to keep your vote where it is?

No, actually, I liked your post a lot. But more importantly, I took the time to look at some of your completed games and found that you have done this before as Town(the best example I found was Open 81). That basically gets rid of anything I had going on you.

Unvote

Someone asked me what I think of the furious karma dog. As I said, I agree with his point about clearing Destructor so early without being able to point out why, but disagree with most everything else he used as a basis for switching his vote. However, whether or not his switch of a vote indicates a link between him and Korts, I do not know. I'm going to go back and look over the whole ordeal right now and will post back shortly.

<3,

Me.

[Kison]

To whomever asked me what I think of Battle Mage, I think for the most part his zany behavior matches what I remember from playing with him ages ago. Which doesn't say much. The only thing from him which I find even remotely alarming so far is his declaration that he is pretty sure CKD is Town so early in the game.

Kirson bouncing off the walls

Kirson

r

AHHHH!!! GET HIM!!!



Die filthy r scum impostor.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

I'm Kison, and I'm Town. This is good news.

Battle Mage, is there any reason you've reverted back to your hardware from early 2007? I thought we all agreed that it was obsolete. And by obsolete, I mean your short vote attention span is distracting and not helpful. The problem is this is not really early game anymore, and you're still acting like a maniac. Do you mind explaining what madness has driven you to switch your vote four hundred times over a span of twenty-some posts?

PS: An interesting consequence of the rules as Adel responded to me is that if we quick-lynch someone before Adel has resolved a mafia kill, the mafia kill will not go through. So we might want to try that as a strategy at some point, and in fact we might want to be more liberal about hammering on a whim or some such if the mafia have not killed yet. Sure, mafia could get away with BS quick hammers, but then they would be killing scummy people instead of whomever they chose.

In light of Adel's response to this I am just going to reiterate that I am opposed to rushing the day. We don't necessarily have to run up to the deadline, but I do not see any benefit in ending the day prematurely if we're not ready.

Rofl's position is (basically) that some townish things are impossible to fake, therefore towntells exist, therefore Des is (probably) town. CKD's position appears to be the opposite. Okay, theory disagreement. But then CKD says Rofl is buddying up. That would imply RoflTown couldn't reasonably believe Des was town, and I'd think it fairly obvious that he could;

roflcopter was giving the impression that he had more than just a mild belief that Destructor was town.

I don't see a reason CKD would eliminate the possibility that Rofl is genuine, but (in his opinion) incorrect. So I think his suspicion is contrived, primarily because I would have expected him to have encountered this viewpoint before (it's probably a lot more common than his)[/b] but also because of the way he went about it; stuff like 114 / 116 seems more oriented towards convincing other people rather than talking it over. I think a townie would probably be more inclined to try and see if they were right or not, especially at this stage of the game. Scum are far more inclined to turn it into a "me vs. you" debate because they can be sure they're not on the same side, whereas town-town fights can be awful.

It goes beyond the initial feeling roflcopter displayed; he was refusing to provide anything to back it up. I find the idea of being able to write someone off while unable to provide any example of what is giving you that feeling to be inconceivable. CKD coming to that same conclusion does not bother me at all.

Anyway, this ties into a question someone asked me before I last posted, which was asking me to give an opinion on CKD. I think I already have, but I'll just say again that I wasn't fond of his justification for swapping his vote to roflcopter(pre argument) but agree with his stance on the argument which followed after(regarding the destructor town clearing). Therefore I don't feel there's a strong beckoning for my vote.

Kison is kind of scummy. But I don't know if that's just him. Kison, are you scum?

Scummy indicates I've done something that makes me more likely to be scum. What, then are you referring to? Or did your 'gut' tell you to say that?

Vote: Zazier

temporary placeholder while I find a better home for my vote. Zazier, where art thou?

[Kison]

Someone asked me what I think of the furious karma dog. As I said, I agree with his point about clearing Destructor so early without being able to point out why, but disagree with most everything else he used as a basis for switching his vote. However, whether or not his switch of a vote indicates a link between him and Korts, I do not know. I'm going to go back and look over the whole ordeal right now and will post back shortly.

What do you think now?

I've already presented a more recent stance. But again I am going to reiterate that I think the CKD wagon is blown out of proportions. I'm viewing CKD's actions as two separate issues, which are as follows:

1) He switched his vote from Korts to roflcoptor without giving a reason. The reasons he presented later were, in my opinion, not very strong, and based primarily on a 'gut' read which he narrowed down to a few posts roflcopter made where he asked various questions, which CKD interpreted as buddying up and 'posting for the sake of posting.' I disagree with this, but considering it was in the early game, I really don't think this point alone warrants a wagon driven to the verge of lynching him.

2) His debate with roflcopter which followed his vote placement. In this debate, he hounds roflcopter for clearing(rofl's words) Destructor after a few pages in the game, and refusing to specify why he has done so. I fully support CKD's argument, despite my own discovery that roflcopter has a tendency to do this in other games(one of which I already pointed out in an earlier post of mine). This makes the act not scummy for _roflcopter_, but in general, I think it's a horrible practice to clear someone based on a few behavioral moves they've made, and much less so when you can't even pinpoint your reasons for viewing them in that light.

I don't know. I may be missing something, here, but those are the two biggies I am seeing, and for this reason I do not view CKD as an optimal lynch at this point(however there are posts beyond the one I'm responding to which may sway me).

@Kison-ive already explained my stance on CKD at least twice.

@Des- same applies to you. It'd be nice if you read some of my posts, before asking me questions that i've already answered.

You definitely didn't. You on ckd:

I'm pretty sure you're town at this point.

But i have a town read on him based on a meta i can't reference, so it isn't of great value to the game at this point.

This is actually a very good point. If DGB wasnt a professional bser, and CKD strongly protown, i might be tempted to follow you.

A strong town read based on a meta that you can't reference is BS. And you're comfortable to say this by Post 28?

I would like the infamous Battle Mage to respond to this.

voting someone, or threatening to vote someone, for "not answering questions" is still stupid, as kison discovered when i answered his questions and he had no good reason to keep his vote on me.

I unvoted you because I found that your actions matched your actions in another game where you were Town.

Vote: Zazier

temporary placeholder while I find a better home for my vote. Zazier, where art thou?

What's the reasoning behind this vote?

I had been away from the game for a few days and hadn't had a better place in mind to stash it, as I said in the block you quoted.

I really don't know what to make of DrippingGoofball's misread of the death scene. I will think on this one.

Unvote

Vote: Yosarian2

Despite posting on a constant basis, he has not shown me much indication that he is trying to find scum. The posts he's made which are most relevant to actual game events are his first few, where he caught up after receiving his prod. In the end he votes curiouskarmadog, and the only two reasons I can find are identical: 'weird feelings' he got from him.

*hits submit and receives the bluehost screen of death* *sigh*...

[Kison]

I had been away from the game for a few days and hadn't had a better place in mind to stash it, as I said in the block you quoted.

That much was clear. But what purpose did it serve in your opinion if it was admittedly temporary and in no way expressive of an intent to lynch or pressure?

The reason I chose to place my vote on Zazier is that at the time of that post, I specifically recall thinking to myself that she was the player from whom I'd seen a severe lack of content(she had made a grand total of two posts, both of which didn't address anything in a very serious manner). Therefore, instead of leaving my vote idle, I chose to place it on her in hopes of pulling her from whatever hole she had crawled under, hence the 'where are you?' comment.

[Kison]

While that's nice and all, would you mind responding to the second quote in my post 399?

More tomorrow.

[Kison]

And then we get to your reasons for suspecting CKD:
yos wrote:

Anyway, CKD's behavior this game has seemed really unusual; both in general, and compared to when I have played with him before. (I don't have much of a meta on him, having not played with him all that many times I think, but his behavior in this game really seems different).

This is entirely vague and doesn't even suggest he is scummy - unless changes in people's playstyle are inherently scummy.

I'm doing my best to explain my impressions here. Whatver the page count says, we're still pretty early in day 1 here. Besides, yes, a radical departure from someone's normal playstyle can be a scumtell.

'Can be' and 'is' do not hold the same meaning. Why did you assume that curiouskarmadog playing differently indicated he was scum as opposed town?

What you did instead (Drop your suspicion on him completly, move your vote to a different wagon, and begin to strongly defend him and attack everyone else on his wagon) is quite confusing if you really are a townie who previously thought he was suspicious looking, unless A. you thought there was new evidence pointing to him being town, or B. you never actually wanted to lynch him in the first place, you just wanted it to look like you did.

Hmm.

Unvote
Vote: Korts

ckd, I still want to see you responding to the posts I mentioned.

This post does not suggest to me that destructor dropped his suspicion of Curiouskarmadog. It seems very clear to me he did not want to rush into the lynch, and instead moved his vote.

I was pointing out that Volkan's actions were desturctive and anti-town, in that if you punish someone for trying to explain why he is suspicious of someone, then they're more likely to just say "gut", and that that is clearly less useful to the town.

This is ridiculous. By having you put your suspicions into words, you're pinpointing what caused you to cast your vote. The alternative would be giving you a free pass every time you wanted to vote someone without giving any specific reason where you use your 'gut' as a freebie card. So if the reasons you produce are faulty and you are attacked for it, those attackers are doing something counter productive? This does not make sense to me.

[Kison]

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced on curiouskarmadog. I also think Yosarian2's attack against Destructor for his unvote is unconvincing. The self-vote and Guardian kill was pretty hasty and while we were still relatively early in the day. I do not fault him for unvoting. Also, while on that topic I will note that I was in Mafia 69 with curiouskarmadog, where he self voted as town. This means I do not find it scummy for curiouskarmadog.

Battle Mage has been evading Destructor's counter to Battle Mage's claim that he had already explained why he found curiouskarmadog to be Town. Battle Mage, why are you evading?

I also do not find SensFan to be particularly scummy. Lurky, yes. What little content he has provided, I have not had much of an issue with. I disagree with roflcopter having an issue with SensFan not believing in gut town reads, and don't understand how that indicates that SensFan might be scum. However, SensFan needs to contribute more(and I realize he said he indicated he would).

If I was forced to decide between korts and curiouskarmadog right now, I would probably vote for Korts. However, I'll read up on the Korts case(which I have admittedly failed to read into) and give a more vivid response soonish.

[Kison]

Kison, why dont you like CKD's wagon?

I have answered this question a couple of times already, but the most detailed explanation is probably in post 399. What do you think of it?

Kison is scum. Mark my words. He's squirming. He's pledging to lurk ahead of time so that we don't jump on him for lurking. How scummy is that?

[Kison]

You get catnip.

[Kison]

SnippingGoofbawl, my post gives no more indication that I 'get' it than roflcopter's does. Although I fail to see how Elmo's explanation makes no sense to you. The first quote shows someone anonymously asking about how the tracker's role works. The second quote shows Guardian:

- Asking questions about game mechanics as the anonymous poster had.
- Possibly implying he was the one who sent in 'the last ones'

[Kison]

Populartajo, I asked you what you thought about my explanation for why I chose not to vote the karma dog.

Battle Scum,

why are you not reading the game?

Unvote

Vote: Korts

I will move this if required to prevent a no lynch.

[Kison]

yoooo yooooo yoo

this is the one andonly kioson, brillinatly chillin right here in the present tense at mafiascunm.net

the cursioikamradog is not thelnch for thoda y pelaseunvote

thanks

oh

populartjo totaly wishwashed that question i asked him.............. but i see through you mr popultartjo

battle scum lurkinhg not sure what is up there but he has done this before. The last I recall was in mafia vs wolveds where he was that millerwannabe scumbag so idont know that battle scum lurking makes hi mlive up to the name of cum if that makes any sense. also it wasa long time ago

but he needs to pay attention or i will kick him like iold times

until then

i am out

good night

[Kison]

what the fuck????

What he said.

This is the game that I was talking about regarding Battle Mage lurkishness. I think Destructor was the one who said he was scum and lurked his way through another game. Do these two compare? My initial instinct tells me that there's little correlation between Battle Mage lurking and his alignment, and I believe a lot of it stems from that game I showed(where he forgot his own role).

BM's reluctance is strange considering he expresses his desire to hammer, but he did keep the pro-town read on CKD pretty much all the way through.

Well, if he's been keeping his pro town read, do you find it odd that he expresses desire to hammer?

Bluehost screen... *waits*

[Kison]

Kison is talking alot of sense and is probably protown. But i dont understand how he can go from such shite grammar to satisfactory posting so quickly.

BM

Sorry. Vodka.

CKD has more flashing scum marquees than Vegas has casinos. Only scum would defend him.

Shit. You got me.

I am moving my vote to curiouskarmadog by deadline if the wagons do not unbalance themselves.

[Kison]

I do, obviously. However, I'm not entirely clear on how the tie vote works with a deadline. My move of a vote would be to avoid a forced no-lynch(which might not be what occurs).

[Kison]

As is evident from my back and forth with Korts, I wasn't really sure how deadline ties worked, but apparently no-lynches are avoided by hanging the person who had more votes immediately prior to the tie.

I'd rather lynch Korts than you. Therefore I obviously wouldn't move my vote in order to lynch you rather than Korts. My goal was to lynch you rather than lynch nobody.

Still <3 you, though.

Also, I forgot you moved your vote to Vollkan.

[Kison]

I'm here and am not changing my vote.

XOXO,

Kison

[Kison]

The Furious Karma Dog Bandwagon Revisited

125) roflcopter
154) roflcopter, DrippingGoofball, destructor, vollkan
201) roflcopter, DrippingGoofball, destructor, vollkan
230) roflcopter, DrippingGoofball, destructor, vollkan
251) roflcopter, DrippingGoofball, destructor, vollkan
331) roflcopter, DrippingGoofball, destructor, vollkan, Yosarian2
349) roflcopter, DrippingGoofball, destructor, vollkan, Yosarian2
361) roflcopter, DrippingGoofball, destructor, vollkan, Yosarian2, curiouskarmadog

curiouskarmadog

DrippingGoofball

destructor

385) roflcopter, vollkan, Yosarian2
401) roflcopter, vollkan, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball

vollkan

424) roflcopter, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, populartajo
449) roflcopter, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, populartajo
486) roflcopter, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, populartajo
510) roflcopter, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, populartajo
525) roflcopter, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, populartajo
573) roflcopter, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, populartajo, Korts
603) roflcopter, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, populartajo, Korts

DrippingGoofball

628) roflcopter, Yosarian2, populartajo, Korts, vollkan

Expect a post from me in the next day or two where I will cite the reasons people gave for ganking the karma mutt. I believe that this will be a good place to find scum, because I am having trouble comprehending what exactly he did that was so scummy, and because not even the most defiant members of the wagon bothered to respond to my breakdown of why his actions were not scummy. Posting this because people might find it handy.

[Kison]

DrippingGoofball is making sense. Does that mean I've lost my sanity? Only time will tell.

[Kison]

Lynching SensFan today for lurking alone would be a mistake. Replace him or make him talk. Otherwise we might as well apply the same protocol to Battle Mage, who I've already used as an example of someone lurking a game as town while staying active in others. I don't view lurking the hell out of a game to be a flawless scum tell. I have lurked the hell out of equal number of games as town in the past as I have games as scum, and rarely, if ever, has it been strategic when done this excessively.

So if the objective of the lynch is just to get rid of someone we can't read, the same would be achieved with a replacement.

Also, I'm mildly interested to see if people think that Elmo's idea for why Guardian was killed is legitimate.

[Kison]

Where were you last thursday?

BM

Why, I think I was home most of the day. You didn't see me betting at the races. did you?

Battle Mage, this doesn't mean 'at the computer.'

Also, why are you just now bringing this up?

[Kison]

Dear Battle Mage,



As a result of the logic you've used on this page, I hereby revoke your ownership of the above.

Your Friend,

Kison

[Kison]

Fun game. The pace was perfect. Thanks for the invite.

Good job on the protections, roflcopter. Because of them, your scummy demeanor is forgiven.

[Kison]

Why did you kill me? I

was

hoping to eat a kill by threatening to go after the CKD voters, but I'm not so sure that's why I actually died.

[Kison]

The CKD wagon was a joke.

[Kison]

the part of the deep south format I'm really attracted to, other than not getting stalled out on night phases, is how an unexpected kill in the middle of the game shakes things up.

I agree.

I'll send pm invite/reminders to any of you that are interested in playing again

*raises hand*

Vollkan: The last round of player reports you posted was very underwhelming compared to what I would have expected from town Vollkan.

I am, FWIW, still totally at a loss to verbalise what Des did that was obvtown, and virtually all the time when I pick up a towntell, I can't say what it was, I just sorta know it when I see it.

Curious, have you ever played with destructor before?