Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)


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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:51 pm

Post by Porkens »

His claimed role pm suggests it.
Answering questions directed at other people.
In the worst case scenario, if you're both town, then we'll have a lynched townie and someone who the scum may/may not decide to kill that night. If you weren't put in the myco they would just choose someone else to kill who, again assuming your role pm is true, would be guaranteed to be flesh. There's really absolutely no justification for not going with SpyreX's plan.
So, regardless of the fact that Ort thinks the role PM confirms that TE is metal, he still wants to 'synth him.

This worst case scenario scares the piss out of me. Yes, yes, lets misslynch and misssynth two town right off the bat. I call that risk a substantial justification for not following Spy's plan.
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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:54 pm

Post by Porkens »

CF Riot, if we lynch SpyreX then it basically confirms you, and to a lesser extent Porkens as town.
It certainly would NOT do anything to confirm either of us, how can you possibly come to that conclusion?? Because they say they trust eachother?
If neither of you is lynched there is going to be *extremely* strong suspicion, not least from me, for the rest of the game against you and SpyreX. I don't see how you could possibly not be in favour of something that will essentially clear you as town for the rest of the game.
God, strike my last post entirely. THIS is why we should hang him.

unvote

vote: Ortolan


And in case it isn't right;

unsynth

synth: Timeater
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:54 pm

Post by CF Riot »

How does Spyre flipping town say anything about mine or Porken's alignment? I don't think our 3 alignments are directly related that way. Yes, Spyre flipping scum would implicate me, and vice versa. Either of us flipping town shouldn't confirm either of the others as town though.

One benefit that I do see though that I'll admit is if TE flipped scum it would drop a lot of the suspicion on Spyre and I.

And you suspect TE, Spyre, Sera, and me so what's the big deal? 3 suspects isn't that much.
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:59 pm

Post by ortolan »

Porkens wrote:I'd honestly be MUCH MUCH happier with lynching ortolan, Seraphim, or, well, CF Riot.

From my point of view, BEST case scenario; we intentionally misslynch today and, if this town can pull it together (which I kinda doubt), we lynch a de-mettaled scum tomorrow.

There are my reservations.
It's not an intentional mislynch at all. He has asked to be lynched, brilliant. If he flips scum, awesome. CF Riot and you are then implicated. If he doesn't then it vindicates CF Riot (because he has supported him all game and argued very strongly for him receiving the serum, which if CF Riot was scum and he wasn't, there is no reason for CF Riot to do) and, to a lesser extent, you (who I believe he has defended several times). If you lynch someone else, such as me or Seraphim, and we flip innocent, you could still all be in league with each other for all town knows.

And please don't pretend there is *any* coherent case at this point for me being scum. The person who I have been most consistently defensive of all game, Timeater, is one I am happy to mycosynth for the good of the town,
in
the context of SpyreX's plan where he gets lynched too.
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:00 pm

Post by ortolan »

Unsynth


I'm only supporting Timeater getting synthed *if* SpyreX (I might be happy to settle for anyone else in my suspected trio at this point) gets the lynch
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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:03 pm

Post by Porkens »

You're playing down the risks of this plan, when it could
easily
end in two dead townies.

You say that SpyreX's flip would either "basically clear CF" or "implicates CF and me." This is simply not true. Spy's flip has no bearing on CF's or my own alignment.

You're pushing hard for this plan, even though it could easily leave us with 4 dead townies on day 3.
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:06 pm

Post by Porkens »

I'm only supporting Timeater getting synthed *if* SpyreX (I might be happy to settle for anyone else in my suspected trio at this point) gets the lynch
And how is that going to work? Are you going to wait for the lynch to re-synth?
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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:50 pm

Post by Wall-E »

CF Riot wrote:So because Ort asked everyone if they were willing to switch with him before he actually did it, that makes it okay? Do you not see what's going on here? I've been against random serum all day and have acted on it. Two other people were pro-randoming, then tried to change where the dice fell after the fact. I don't see how that makes me scummier than them.
Nobody messed with the die rolls. They were evolved as a process and the process had zero flaws with execution. Read again if you don't believe me.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:55 pm

Post by Wall-E »

ortolan wrote:I'm all for calling SpyreX's possible gambit on this one.

Vote: SpyreX


I think having asked to be lynched and what he said in post 418 we can't really let him live. He's claimed to be flesh- if he doesn't die we've got ourselves a scum, if he does die then what he flips will give the town a great deal of information
What information?
ortolan wrote:I also, however, agree with him about mycoing Timeater. I think it's too big a gamble for town to leave Timeater as claimed steel having lynched SpyreX.

Myco: Timeater
Yeah, let's do it. Let's turn the whole town flesh that can burn and hang and die.

Unmycosynth: Mycosynth: Timeater


I might still be argued off this wagon given a good enough reason.
ortolan wrote:That said, I don't like how Seraphim has come back having been inactive and merely made a "please state your arguments against me post", then quite passively suggested maybe he should claim. He has still barely posted anything of content. This is in fact the main reason for the potential lynch on him. It's possible he's just a lurky town player but it also seems a fairly viable mafia strategy to play the way he has.

That said MafiaSSK getting the serum seems a reasonable result to me so far.
Agreed.
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:59 pm

Post by Wall-E »

Porkens wrote:I think Spy and TE are just pissing eachother off, honestly. If one of them were scum, I'd say it was TE because, for me, TE's unrequested claim still comes off as a scum move.
Then you must agree Spyrex claiming flesh is equally scummy.
Porkens wrote:Spy, you participated in the random serum idea originally, didn't you? I mean; no, there wasn't a majority consensus, but you can't distance yourself from the process completely now can you?
Agreeing with the implied sentiment that Spyrex's participation and turning-against the random plan is suspicious.
Porkens wrote:So Spy says he wants us to lynch him and synth TE. TE should be just fine with this if he believes Spy is scum. The fact that he isn't ALL OVER this idea is a tell in and of itself.
I disagree. This is the second time you've tried to convince someone they should be ok with dying or being otherwise inconvenienced (by, for example, losing metal status). I present to the town that it is scummy to say what Porkens is saying.

I will explain why if asked, but try to figure it out on your own.
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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:59 pm

Post by Wall-E »

Timeater wrote:Why should I be fine with the town losing its only metalloid? D1 no less?

Why is that ok?

When SpyreX self-votes sure, I'll jump on the wagon.
Rolefishing?
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:04 pm

Post by ortolan »

Lol, you guys have pretty much backed yourself into a corner.

SpyreX, CF Riot and Porkens are inarguably very strongly linked to one another. Skimming the game history I see SpyreX put a serum vote on for Porkens in 107 (arguably a joke vote)

Post 209 CF Riot: "I read Porkens as pro-town". This sentence stands by itself in the middle of the post with no justification, lol.

On the way look @ 228 where SpyreX "likes everything CF Riot" says. I'm just picking these out when they happen to catch my eye.

It's also blatantly obvious they've consistently bandwagoned Timeater, and, to a lesser extent Wall-E (from what I can recall)

And look at Natirasha's vote post 272, after it had been determined to randomly assign the serum. Note randomly, as in not prone to scum interference:

"Porkens(1): SpyreX
Tuberkulos(7): Timeater, ortolan, TonyMontana, geraintm, Wall-E, Seraphim, Illumina "

Again these three stand out from the rest- none of them are voting for the intended random recipient of the serum. The only other people not voting are Tuberkulos himself (inactive), and Gremwell (also relatively inactive all game IIRC).

In post 365 CF Riot starts his campaign to give SpyreX the serum (later he suggests it's something to do with SpyreX expressing great logic all game or something, funny that you guys have unwaveringly felt that way about each other all game).

-Four possibilities on this campaign: CF Riot has independently come to believe that SpyreX is a great, logical poster and thus wants to go against the whole random assignment thing in favour of his hunch. This seems pretty unlikely, but maybe is possible. Why would CF Riot go against the grain of random voting simply to serum someone he "thinks" has a good town vibe? Second possibility, CF Riot is scum and SpyreX is town. If so WHY would CF Riot go against the grain to give the serum to someone he knows will get a pro-town power? This is why neither of these first two possibilities are at all viable. The third, and I'm not gonna exclude this possibility just yet- they are masons. That is why they've been so close all game, and that is why they would want to serum one another. Fourth possibility: he's scum, and this was a blatant gambit to give the serum to scum. And just in case it isn't obvious what this means- CF Riot and SpyreX being independently town is implausible. CF Riot being scum and SpyreX being town is implausible. The only possibilities is that they are masons, or scum. This means, CF Riot, that your following quote:
How does Spyre flipping town say anything about mine or Porken's alignment? I don't think our 3 alignments are directly related that way. Yes, Spyre flipping scum would implicate me, and vice versa. Either of us flipping town shouldn't confirm either of the others as town though.
is simply wrong. SpyreX's flip dictates ALOT about your alignment. As the second possibility above (that you are scum and he is town) is implausible, if he flips town it STRONGLY implies you are also town. In this case at least, Porkens is a different matter, and you might suggest he can not be associated with you two in this case. Either way, I find it hard to believe you wouldn't recognise this and wouldn't support the plan in accordance. (makes me lean towards the hypothesis you're both scum and either being flipped would give the game away)

Read post 371 supports my thesis to the letter. Post 374, come on, this is BLATANT WIFOM, and not of the good variety.

The only, _only_ point of difference I see in this group the whole game is Porkens wants to keep the random serum assignment while CF Riot and SpyreX try to divert it (however Porkens obviously didn't like the random serum assignment enough to say...support it with his vote). It's eminently possible he's just seized on one minor point of difference with his buddies to try to distance them from one another.

Finally, post 418, SpyreX's gambit:

"I'll raise you one. I am not a metal. I can be hung today. If you're so sure about your "gambit" - hang me and offer yourself up for the lynch. If I'm scum, well, then your awesome abilities nailed two. When I flip town, they can hang you tomorrow and I double win."

Hey this sounds good to me, I'll vote in favour of it. Furthermore; I think, surely seeing as it's obvious CF Riot, SpyreX and Porkens are so strongly associated with each other, they would jump at the chance to have one of their number lynched and their alignment revealed, to vindicate them for the rest of the game. Oh wait.
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:08 pm

Post by CF Riot »

Wall-E wrote:Nobody messed with the die rolls. They were evolved as a process and the process had zero flaws with execution.
That's not what I'm talking about. Ort was pro-random, then said we should reroll because Tuber was inactive. Illumina did the same.

Why does all of post 458 sound like you're against the gambit, yet you're going along with it?

460, what about that is rolefishing? I don't understand anything you're saying.

Please stop double, triple, and quadruple posting.
----
TE, what's wrong with an Ort lynch? What do you not like about it?
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:11 pm

Post by Timeater »

I just think this Ort thing is just one huge distraction to steer people away from the way you and SpyreX were acting earlier. I'm done posting for the night, but myco'ing me is just beyond idiotic. I'll post more tomorrow.
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Post by Nicol Bolas »

...Bold/Color...unserum/unmyco, kthx.
Vote Count 1.8 wrote:Vote Count
Seraphim(3): SpyreX, CF_Riot, TonyMontana
Illumina(1): ortolan
Porkens(1): Seraphim
geraintm(1): Wall-E
CF Riot(1): Timeater
Not Voting: MafiaSSK, geraintm, Illumina, Porkens, Gremwell

Serum Count
MafiaSSK(8): Timeater, ortolan, TonyMontana, geraintm, Wall-E, Seraphim, Illumina, SpyreX
Not Seruming: CF Riot, Gremwell, MafiaSSK, Porkens
MafiaSSK has reached majority of Serum votes.

Mycosynth Count
Wall-E(3): CF_Riot, Seraphim, Illumina
CF Riot(1): TonyMontana
Timeater(3): SpyreX, Porkens, Wall-E
SpyreX(1): timeater
Not Mycosynthing: Gremwell, MafiaSSK, geraintm


To lynch/mycosynth/serum: Seven
Deadline: 11/14
Last edited by Nicol Bolas on Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:17 pm

Post by Nicol Bolas »

Due to my rules regarding replacements, I am pushing the deadline back to the 15th. I will have a lot of access that day, but, believe me, the first moment I have, I will end the day. I say that you get something resembling a lynch soon.
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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:19 pm

Post by SpyreX »

Ok, lets make this 100% clear.

1.) When I flip town DONT FOR A SECOND instantly believe that Porkens and CFR are 100% town. I'm saying that their play definitely suggests to me such a thing.

2.) Oro, whom if I remember correctly was the one who initially did the whole "metal claim, get the serum" (I bring this up for the fallout that will come) has made some bizarre connections.

3.) I will hammer myself. Gladly even. However, this aint happenin' until we have a majority on Time getting the synth.

Please, please tomorrow utilize what has happened today to not go into space zombies. Say what you will, I want to win.
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:19 pm

Post by ortolan »

and I've got to answer Porkens' last few posts because they contain some truly horrible arguments.

Firstly, your question addressed to Timeater in the first place was stupid, as it was obvious what his claim to be the only metal townie was based on.
Porkens wrote:
CF Riot, if we lynch SpyreX then it basically confirms you, and to a lesser extent Porkens as town.

It certainly would NOT do anything to confirm either of us, how can you possibly come to that conclusion?? Because they say they trust eachother?
Just answered this in my previous post so no need to tread over it again.
Porkens wrote:
This worst case scenario scares the piss out of me. Yes, yes, lets misslynch and misssynth two town right off the bat. I call that risk a substantial justification for not following Spy's plan.

...
If neither of you is lynched there is going to be *extremely* strong suspicion, not least from me, for the rest of the game against you and SpyreX. I don't see how you could possibly not be in favour of something that will essentially clear you as town for the rest of the game.
God, strike my last post entirely. THIS is why we should hang him.

unvote

vote: Ortolan


And in case it isn't right;

unsynth

synth: Timeater
So instead of going with SpyreX's plan; which has the potential worst case consequence of "misslynching and missynthing two townies right off the bat" (and, I have already argued, give us strong evidence that CF Riot is townie and perhaps weaker evidence that you are), you'd rather go with your plan, which has the potential worst case consequence of...misslynching and missynthing two townies right off the bat, and additionally gives you exactly nothing to go on. You know that...I am dead and you know that...Timeater is now flesh, irrespective of whether he was previously. Furthermore seeing as Timeater and I have basically supported each other all game you just lynched/synthed two people in basically the same camp and have revealed absolutely about Timeater's alignment (obviously you will know mine when I am dead). This is honestly one of the worst arguments I've ever heard and supports my suspicion that you're not interested in good argument but more interested in pulling the wool over the eyes of the town. I'm about 80% sure at this point that you, CF Riot and SpyreX are all scum.
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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:20 pm

Post by ortolan »

absolutely about Timeater's alignment = absolutely nothing about Timeater's alignment
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:21 pm

Post by SpyreX »

Ohh and after you lynch me, as a huge BTW: Scum are not going to have all of them hold hands and dance. I see the dancing circle according to Oro is all 3 of us.

Could either of them be scum? Sure.

Do I think so? Highly doubt it.

Am I willing to DIE to prove a point about what I'm saying about who I think ARE scum? Yessir.
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:21 pm

Post by ortolan »

SpyreX wrote:
3.) I will hammer myself. Gladly even. However, this aint happenin' until we have a majority on Time getting the synth.
I know this sooooooooooo isn't gonna happen. You will try and synth Timeater and then CF Riot, Porkens are you are gonna come up with some crummy reasons for lynching someone else (probably Seraphim).
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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:22 pm

Post by ortolan »

again, are you = and you (sorry for excessive caffeine intake)
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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:23 pm

Post by SpyreX »

Well, again, if you -really- think that is whats going to happen, do what it takes to find out. Get the majority on Time eater.
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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:24 pm

Post by ortolan »

SpyreX wrote:Ohh and after you lynch me, as a huge BTW: Scum are not going to have all of them hold hands and dance. I see the dancing circle according to Oro is all 3 of us.

Could either of them be scum? Sure.

Do I think so? Highly doubt it.

Am I willing to DIE to prove a point about what I'm saying about who I think ARE scum? Yessir.
Actions speak louder than words.

Let me just ask you one question: are you a mason with either of CF Riot or Porkens, or do you happen to be townies that loved the cut of one another's jibs from the get-go?
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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Post by SpyreX »

Love the cut of said jib.

There's no roles but vanilla.
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