Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[SpyreX]

1) Assuring the town that you are flesh and therefore deserve the serum is identical to me doing so.

2) The majority of the town assured you AFTER you stated your intent to vote the serum to the most "pro-town" (which, typically, day 1, is easy to scumfake) player that choosing to break the randomized selection plan would be considered a scumtell. The reasons were also stated at that time, but I'll outline them here: Day one is always hard to lynch on. Most times we get a townie. For something as game-influencing as the acquisition of a power we would determine the recipient randomly, to prevent the scum from gaining power night one as much as mathematically possible.

3) You're saying Timeater is too innocent to be town. For scumhunting.

I swear to you, that is what you said there. Read it twice. Also, nobody's insinuating squat. We're flat out saying; "Do not go against the randomness D1."

All that said, I think there is room here for negotiation, but I don't want to hear you call an attack upon you for fighting the random serum unfair or uncalled-for. You made your ultimatum, several others made theirs.

1.) I was assuring the town I was flesh so I could be A LYNCH, not the serum.

2.) See my whole giving it to someone not playing = bad for the town. See my serum now after the mod confirmed what was going on.

3.) What? I'm saying that Time is scum. I've been saying that. I'm saying he attempted to get the serum off the bat with "trust me guys". As for scumhunting - he said that two scum outed themselves early day 1 in such a fashion that the connection will always be there... really? Not to mention the other business.

But hey, whateva works.

Just look back a bit when you get this lynch.

Porkens - Town.
CFR - Town
You - Probably Town.

Time - Scum
Sera - Lurker Scum.

[Seraphim]

...well, Sprye...I don't find you incredibly scummy. The irony is that, reading through all this, is that I find Wall-E to be the scummiest. In fact, the fact that he's been following along with me to be very odd. Besides that, I can't explain exactly why he feels off to me. However, I am mycosynthing him. So, I can't lynch him as well.

I also notice the fact that I'm the closest to being lynched. Does anyone want a roleclaim from me before I retire just in case I become the deadline lynch?

[CF Riot]

TE, post 417? You asked for examples and I got them. Do they mean anything or are you just going to follow your proclaimation of scum no matter what I do?

Wall-E, what do you mean "negotiation"?

Mod:

does deadline lynch the person with the most votes or no-lynch if there's no majority?

[Natirasha]

MafiaSSK replaces Tuberkulos effective immediately.

[Timeater]

So, I offered you thus. If you are so sure we are scum, why not lynch me? If I turn up town you've got that proof you need to hunt CFR. However, when I turn up town then you should be swung up so fast it makes your head spin.

You used that same arguement with CFR. You seem pretty adamant about defending him. Do you realize how this makes you look?

Also do you realize that I have perfectly legitimate reasons for attacking (aka scumhunting) like this? Do you understand my position concerning the serum and how you tried to undermine what we did? How does that make me scummy?

You have said: CFR AND I are scum because we went against the "consensus of the town" (Which I have asked you to show me and you have not). This would be outing two scum on day 1 for minimal gain, but hey, god forbid we letting strategies that win get in the way.

When I say you went against the 'consensus of the town' I mean exactly that. The majority voted for Tuber to recieve the serum based on the random idea that Wall-E came up with and I nurtured to fruition. Seven people voted for him to receive the serum. Dont understand your confusion there.

So, I offered you thus. If you are so sure we are scum, why not lynch me? If I turn up town you've got that proof you need to hunt CFR. However, when I turn up town then you should be swung up so fast it makes your head spin.

I am content with my CFR vote. He was the person to initially propose we undermine the randomization process. I think you are steel scum, so what would a lynch on you accomplish? I dont believe in wasting my vote.

You, however, have not even shown me (although I agreed to it) this mystical magna carta where it was said that disagreement with this plan = outing yourself as scum. I'd really like to see it.

You have gone through great lengths to show people how smart you are. Do you now expect them to believe you just now had a mental foible concering the cornerstone of d1? The whole IDEA of the random process was that the scum could not interfere at all in the selection process. And here you come, late to the game, trying to interfere. Do you really expect people to believe, that you, a self-proclaimed mafia genius, would not realize how scummy undermining the process would make you look? Its very contradictory.

And since you are so keen about posting suspect lists, I shall post my own:

Wall-E: neutral variable
CF Riot: shortlist scum
Illumina:neutral variable
ortolan: shortlist town
Gremwell: longlist town
Tuberkulos: neutral variable
SpyreX: shortlist scum
Porkens: longlist town
geraintm: neutral variable
TonyMontana: neutral variable
Seraphim: longlist scum

Also@CF Riot - Ortolan and Illumina both voted for Tuberkulos. Ort said he was not really trying to overturn the serum decision, and later called you and SpyreX on your reasoning. Illumina has said so little its hard to get any kind of picture about her/his play. She also suggested we serum someone else ON A RANDOM BASIS. Which is +++town in my eyes.

[Wall-E]

I made a small mistake in what I said: Lynch me and offer yourself up for the

synth

today.

As for the other bits, since well, its apparently really hard.

I have said: I think you are scum metal. I've said that from the beginning. On top of your gambit (which would benefit the scum greatly if it worked with minimal risk to the team as a whole) your play has been sub-par and had scumtells: the whole "we, the town", the "/emo", etc.

You have said: CFR AND I are scum because we went against the "consensus of the town" (Which I have asked you to show me and you have not). This would be outing two scum on day 1 for minimal gain, but hey, god forbid we letting strategies that win get in the way.

So, I offered you thus. If you are so sure we are scum, why not lynch me? If I turn up town you've got that proof you need to hunt CFR. However, when I turn up town then you should be swung up so fast it makes your head spin.

WITH THAT SAID:

You just aren't making any sense. You seem desperate.

I'm not desperate. Again, this is one of the many things you're doing that makes me think you're scum all the more. I am totally fine for a 1-1 trade considering the fact that I firmly believe you're scum.

You should have known better to try to undermine the randomization process if you were townie. You really should have. You can attack me all you want, thats fine, but know you have no real defense concerning your attempt to undermine the random serum process.

Again, we've covered the reasons why I opted to change it (notice I said if the serum wasn't moved I would put my vote back on Tuber). We've covered why, based on the rules laid out, I chose the approach of the Razor versus praying for Mod fiat.

You, however, have not even shown me (although I agreed to it) this mystical magna carta where it was said that disagreement with this plan = outing yourself as scum. I'd really like to see it.

But, hey, guess what? Ultimately I don't care all that much. I see Wall-E has shifted his vote, Sera will. Thats almost enough to lynch me.

Get on it fellas.

I'll give a different post for Wall-E's comments.

1) Assuring the town that you are flesh and therefore deserve the serum is identical to me doing so.

2) The majority of the town assured you AFTER you stated your intent to vote the serum to the most "pro-town" (which, typically, day 1, is easy to scumfake) player that choosing to break the randomized selection plan would be considered a scumtell. The reasons were also stated at that time, but I'll outline them here: Day one is always hard to lynch on. Most times we get a townie. For something as game-influencing as the acquisition of a power we would determine the recipient randomly, to prevent the scum from gaining power night one as much as mathematically possible.

3) You're saying Timeater is too innocent to be town. For scumhunting.

I swear to you, that is what you said there. Read it twice. Also, nobody's insinuating squat. We're flat out saying; "Do not go against the randomness D1."

All that said, I think there is room here for negotiation, but I don't want to hear you call an attack upon you for fighting the random serum unfair or uncalled-for. You made your ultimatum, several others made theirs.

1.) I was assuring the town I was flesh so I could be A LYNCH, not the serum.

2.) See my whole giving it to someone not playing = bad for the town. See my serum now after the mod confirmed what was going on.

3.) What? I'm saying that Time is scum. I've been saying that. I'm saying he attempted to get the serum off the bat with "trust me guys". As for scumhunting - he said that two scum outed themselves early day 1 in such a fashion that the connection will always be there... really? Not to mention the other business.

But hey, whateva works.

Just look back a bit when you get this lynch.

Porkens - Town.
CFR - Town
You - Probably Town.

Time - Scum
Sera - Lurker Scum.

...well, Sprye...I don't find you incredibly scummy. The irony is that, reading through all this, is that I find Wall-E to be the scummiest. In fact, the fact that he's been following along with me to be very odd. Besides that, I can't explain exactly why he feels off to me. However, I am mycosynthing him. So, I can't lynch him as well.

I also notice the fact that I'm the closest to being lynched. Does anyone want a roleclaim from me before I retire just in case I become the deadline lynch?

SpyreX seems to be throwing in the towel. That's enough to convince me to hop off the proverbial fence.

Confirm Vote: SpyreX

Wall-E, what do you mean "negotiation"?

I mean that conversation on the issue of whether SpyreX is scum or not on the basis of him not following the random plan should continue, as I feel there may be more that has to be said.

Wall-E edit: I find myself agreeing with Timeater's last post 200%.

[Timeater]

Hey Walls remember, color your vote.

(although personally I think we should be mycoing him not lynching. if you can convince me otherwise hey)

[Wall-E]

It was just a confirm, so no need to color. The mod doesn't care about confirm votes in this setup I don't think. He's got enough to keep track of already.

[CF Riot]

So because Ort asked everyone if they were willing to switch with him before he actually did it, that makes it okay? Do you not see what's going on here? I've been against random serum all day and have acted on it. Two other people were pro-randoming, then tried to change where the dice fell after the fact. I don't see how that makes me scummier than them.

I also don't understand why you're hesitant to take a deal with someone who you think is scum when they're offering themselves to be lynched. If you were actually right about Spyre and I (you're not) then this would be better than a 1-for-1 trade as you'd get both of us. That'd be 2 scums for 1 town by D2. What makes you think Spyre is steelscum rather than just scum?

Also, full town scummy/not-scummy lists like that are anti-town. It just tells the scum who to NK and who to press for mislynch. What do you mean by "shortlist/longlist"?

[SpyreX]

Also do you realize that I have perfectly legitimate reasons for attacking (aka scumhunting) like this? Do you understand my position concerning the serum and how you tried to undermine what we did? How does that make me scummy?

Attacking != scumhunting.

Again, how does assuming that if there was no replacement thus giving said serum to someone who wouldn't use it based on the rules of the game undermining the position?

The scummy bit is the "CFR AND SpyreX are obviously scum together." It doesn't make sense. Yes, if CFR IS actually scum he played me like a fiddle but it ultimately doesn't change the fact you're saying that a large portion, if not all, the scum outed themselves to protect themselves from... well, nothing.

When I say you went against the 'consensus of the town' I mean exactly that. The majority voted for Tuber to recieve the serum based on the random idea that Wall-E came up with and I nurtured to fruition. Seven people voted for him to receive the serum. Dont understand your confusion there.

There is a difference between voting for the random and agreeing that not voting for it is a scumtell.

I am content with my CFR vote. He was the person to initially propose we undermine the randomization process. I think you are steel scum, so what would a lynch on you accomplish? I dont believe in wasting my vote.

Because I said I wasn't in fact steel. So, if you lynch me and I dont die you've caught me in a lie designed for self preservation only and therefore can in fact myco/lynch me and ignore me in the interim - so, testing the validity of my claim would say a lot.

Of course, my thinking you are steel scum again makes you wasting the myco on me make sense - it definitely makes sure it doesn't hit you today afterall.

You have gone through great lengths to show people how smart you are. Do you now expect them to believe you just now had a mental foible concering the cornerstone of d1? The whole IDEA of the random process was that the scum could not interfere at all in the selection process. And here you come, late to the game, trying to interfere. Do you really expect people to believe, that you, a self-proclaimed mafia genius, would not realize how scummy undermining the process would make you look? Its very contradictory.

You say over and over how I'm trying to show how smart I am. What purpose does it serve? I'd like to see where I've actually done this.

However, to the latter. I'm pretty sure that even though I agreed to it today I was very clear I'd rather it be on merit. That aside, I wanted to have it actually be used so, again despite how much you seem to want to ignore it, I wanted it in anyones hands that was actually playing the game.

@Wall-E:

Are you seriously saying "throwing in the towel" is a

scum

maneuver? That's sad news, son.

The fact that, once clarification was given, I shifted my vote back says?

Also, I'm not /emo voting. I wont. However, considering how ridiculous this has came lynching me for information makes sense. Just what do you think is going to happen from that, though.

This one will get pushed through - that easy enough to see. I'm not going to get inflamed and spew over it.

Hopefully it'll get things moving forward so, in fact, I can still win the game. At the very least I'm hoping you pay enough attention to what has went on to infact 1.) Not ever, ever, ever give Time the serum and 2.) Myco him tomorrow like we should be today.

[ortolan]

I'm all for calling SpyreX's possible gambit on this one.

Vote: SpyreX

I think having asked to be lynched and what he said in post 418 we can't really let him live. He's claimed to be flesh- if he doesn't die we've got ourselves a scum, if he does die then what he flips will give the town a great deal of information

I also, however, agree with him about mycoing Timeater. I think it's too big a gamble for town to leave Timeater as claimed steel having lynched SpyreX.

Myco: Timeater

That said, I don't like how Seraphim has come back having been inactive and merely made a "please state your arguments against me post", then quite passively suggested maybe he should claim. He has still barely posted anything of content. This is in fact the main reason for the potential lynch on him. It's possible he's just a lurky town player but it also seems a fairly viable mafia strategy to play the way he has.

That said MafiaSSK getting the serum seems a reasonable result to me so far.

[ortolan]

Please if you agree/disagree with this plan, state why; and if you agree, vote accordingly.

I would hope SpyreX at the very least would vote in support of his own plan.

[Porkens]

I think Spy and TE are just pissing eachother off, honestly. If one of them were scum, I'd say it was TE because, for me, TE's unrequested claim still comes off as a scum move.

Spy, you participated in the random serum idea originally, didn't you? I mean; no, there wasn't a majority consensus, but you can't distance yourself from the process completely now can you?

So Spy says he wants us to lynch him and synth TE. TE should be just fine with this if he believes Spy is scum. The fact that he isn't ALL OVER this idea is a tell in and of itself.

[Porkens]

That all said, I think we need to reach a 'synth majority before we cast the last lynching vote.

[Timeater]

Why should I be fine with the town losing its only metalloid? D1 no less?

Why is that ok?

When SpyreX self-votes sure, I'll jump on the wagon.

[ortolan]

So Spy says he wants us to lynch him and synth TE. TE should be just fine with this if he believes Spy is scum. The fact that he isn't ALL OVER this idea is a tell in and of itself.

This seems all the more reason to go with the plan. Either way, we're going to get *a lot* of information out of it.

[Porkens]

Why should I be fine with the town losing its only metalloid? D1 no less?

Why is that ok?

How do you know you are the towns only metaloid?

[ortolan]

His claimed role pm suggests it.

Why should I be fine with the town losing its only metalloid? D1 no less?

Why is that ok?

When SpyreX self-votes sure, I'll jump on the wagon.

In the worst case scenario, if you're both town, then we'll have a lynched townie and someone who the scum may/may not decide to kill that night. If you weren't put in the myco they would just choose someone else to kill who, again assuming your role pm is true, would be guaranteed to be flesh. There's really absolutely no justification for not going with SpyreX's plan.

[CF Riot]

Why should I be fine with the town losing its only metalloid? D1 no less?

First of all you don't know that you're the only steel on the town side. Second, even if you are you already wasted the benefit you gave town by coming straight out and admitting it. The benefit of steel town is failed mafia kills. Knowing you're steel means they won't even attempt to kill you. Third, he's not even asking to kill you, just asking you give up your steel powers, and in return he's giving you 2 scum lynches (in your eyes). That would mean most probably 1 scum left with 0 mislynches. Why wouldn't you be all for it?

That said, I already believe Spyre to be town. Before the last two days I believed TE to be town. Going along with the gambit in this scenario leads to 2 straight mislynches. I think this is what Ort is aiming for with supporting the gambit. However, I am starting to doubt TE. Either way, I do think Sera is a great lynch today.

Sera, I'd say now is a good time to claim since we're a day from deadline now that MafiaSSK has joined us. Everyone else voice an opinion. Sera don't claim unless we have at least 4 people who are pro-claiming.

[Porkens]

I'd honestly be MUCH MUCH happier with lynching ortolan, Seraphim, or, well, CF Riot.

From my point of view, BEST case scenario; we intentionally misslynch today and, if this town can pull it together (which I kinda doubt), we lynch a de-mettaled scum tomorrow.

There are my reservations.

[Timeater]

Can we get a vote count, please?

[Porkens]

If all the idiots (myself included) could just for a moment stop tearing into

eachother

I'll reiterate that I'm really starting to like the idea of an Ortolan lynch.

[CF Riot]

Why?

[ortolan]

CF Riot, if we lynch SpyreX then it basically confirms you, and to a lesser extent Porkens as town. That is part of the motivation. If neither of you is lynched there is going to be *extremely* strong suspicion, not least from me, for the rest of the game against you and SpyreX. I don't see how you could possibly not be in favour of something that will essentially clear you as town for the rest of the game.

That said, I already believe Spyre to be town. Before the last two days I believed TE to be town. Going along with the gambit in this scenario leads to 2 straight mislynches. I think this is what Ort is aiming for with supporting the gambit. However, I am starting to doubt TE. Either way, I do think Sera is a great lynch today.

In three sentences you have expressed suspicion of three different people, including me. That is noted.

There is some case against Seraphim for his lurking, but I am increasingly skeptical of you doggedly pursuing his case when, if SpyreX is telling the truth, lynching him has clear benefits to both town and you personally. I would really like to hear from the people who aren't already heavily invested in the debate as to what they think of the plan.

[Timeater]

An ortolan lynch sounds pretty silly.