Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[CF Riot]

1 the logic was not faulty and 2 WIFOM does not mean that an argument is not valid. I think it's completely logical (though in this instance completely wrong) that a mod would move on with stated deadlines even if it may result in one person not sending in their night action. I also think it sub-par play to allow that to happen if you have the ability to give the action to someone who is active.

Most everything in mafia is WIFOM. Please tell me why my explaination is less probable than yours. Give me the motive. Why would scum risk it?

[SpyreX]

It has nothing to do with being stupid. As you once said to me, WIFOM. Can you quit doing it?

Your statement that CFR and I are scum buddies dancing it up in the middle of town isn't a matter of WIFOM. It's retarded. I've mentioned WIFOM one whole time this game, regarding nightkills.

Its extremely hardy to believe that Nat would end night without getting a replacement and letting that replacement do any night action with whatever power the serum might grant. THAT ARGUEMENT IS HORRIBLE AND EVERYONE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE HOW HORRIBLE IT IS. CAPS.

My bad in assuming that if the deadline stands that nighttime would, in fact, have to stand. Or, whatever. Honestly, not caring much.

Unserum, Serum: Tuber

Kitty shows his fangs?

If by "fangs" you mean showing how ridiculous you've been this game, sure. I'll continue to.

You are just failing miserably at trying to belittle me. You are so transparent.

I'm making fun of you because the last series of events warrants it.

You have a "smoking gun" and although you do myco me... no vote for CFR? But we're BEST BUDS because we're so obviously scum.

I felt bad, for a bit, when I thought you were going to leave because of pretend effrontery at something that wasn't even directed at you. Instead, after that bout of /emo you've came back like you're mr town again. You're not. I really hope people realize that you need the synth really, really badly and need to get hung even more badly.

The arguement they were pushing was so ludicrous and illogical I dont how they thought anyone could buy it. I honestly think we have our two best candidates for myco and lynch, after all thats been said and done today.

Again, he who apparently knows all avenues of logic and reading of the game, why in heaven was anything we said illogical?

Also, love that still no vote up. Gotta make sure others will bite, right?

1 the logic was not faulty and 2 WIFOM does not mean that an argument is not valid. I think it's completely logical (though in this instance completely wrong) that a mod would move on with stated deadlines even if it may result in one person not sending in their night action. I also think it sub-par play to allow that to happen if you have the ability to give the action to someone who is active.

WOAH HERE IS ME BEING YOUR BUDDY AGAIN.

QFT. P.S. look at that magical link in my sig (Not CFR, you're cool).

[Timeater]

Lol, whatever.

I'm not responding to personal attacks anymore. (which you seem to make alot of when you're not trying to make yourself appear some all-knowing mafia genius - e.g above post)

Ort has already seen how ridiculous your position was. More will follow.

[SpyreX]

Yes, I am an all knowing mafia genius.

Thats why I said very clearly how your play could, and would, be a decent gambit by scum. Because it, very easily in this setup, is.

I'm also being so callous and rude to everyone else, right?

Again, if CFR and I are so obviously scum buddies, why not the vote, still?

And what is/was "ridiculous" is assuming that with a deadline set in 2 days and a set non-negotiable 3 day night cycle that giving the serum to a player who is, in fact, not playing would be a negative overall for the town?

How is this a "smoking gun"?

(see, I can play nice)

[Illumina]

Interesting.

I think either we stall a bit until we know a replacement can be found for Tuberkulos, or serum someone else on a random basis.

Since you turned out to not be lying then, I'm much more comfortable trusting you now. (So don't be scum.)

If this isn't wifom, I don't know what is.

I'll post tomorrow when I have more time, now I should sleep.

[Timeater]

1. Why not what vote? My vote is on CF_Riot and my Myco is on you.

2. Its ridiculous of you to assume that Natirasha, one of the most clever and unique people on mafiascum, would completely absolve the d1 serum beneficiary of his duties because we were temporarly out a player. Its ridiculous of you to assume that he would just end the night (OR DAY) without action when we are missing such a crucial player.

3. It was proposed and suggested, obviously, that anyone trying to undermine the randomization process would be subject to extreme scrutiny. The fact that you were trying to undermine it on such a small technicality appears to me a failed scum gambit. As a townie, you should have known better. With the attention on Seraphim and Wall-E, you probably thought that such a proposition would have been met with little opposition. You were wrong and now you are going to pay for it.

[SpyreX]

1.) I just looked at the last vote count. I totally missed it. My bad 100%

2.) God you irk me. In the pretend world we live in I assume that the laws that govern it are set. We are told a deadline is the 14th. We are told there is a 72-hr non-negotiable period for night actions. How, praytell, is it ridiculous that I, in fact, believe both of the above? If we, knowing the above, choose to give the serum to a player that is unable to use it it is

our own faults

.

3.) See above. If you think this is a scum gambit, well, wow. What would the attention on Sera (which I helped put there) and that on Wall-E (which I've made my stance on) have anything to do with this? Last I checked neither of them had anything to do with the serum.

I'm soo paying for it too. See all my paying for it. Do you see it?

Its there, I promise.

[ortolan]

Not going on the offensive this post; I just want to ask CF Riot why he has a preference for giving SpyreX the serum over anyone else. If i recall correctly you said in a previous post that you had some reasoning for assigning it to who you wanted to, who turned out to be SpyreX. May I why you'd like SpyreX to have the serum specifically?

[Timeater]

SpyreX you should really stop trying to be funny because you aren't.

Leave the funny to Wall-E.

[ortolan]

lol...looks like Tuberkulos is back boys.

Good timing too.

[geraintm]

@Gremwell; I don't want to assume that the law of averages applies to metal. Don't read this as outguessing the mod but; I don't think he would assign metal randomly to both scum and town. My gut tells me that most, if not all, of the scum are metal, and the town has few, if any, metal roles. My guts been wrong before, but until proved otherwise, I'll expect a worst-case scenario and go with it.

just starting to worry me your thinking, all coming from the claim by time...it seems like that little thing is clouding yor judgement too much

For the last time there are

NO RISKS

in claiming flesh-town. It is absolutely safe. The only way to prove someone is lying about being flesh is to lynch them, which amounts to witch-trials because they're dead if they're innocent and dead if they're guilty.

i am making the assumption that there is now or might be in the future someway for someone to test someone's metalness without having to throw them into the myco...

CF_riot - dislike the trying to switch serum. it was random, and if he gets replaced, then that would be random too.

why have you chosen spyrex anyways??? was it random or you made a decision about him??

lynch cf_riot
myco spyrex

what, spyrex you are no capaigning for the serum too? you are not going to get it. you know as well as anyone it was randomly assigned. voting yourself isn't. naughty, naughty boy!
carrying on reading, this is based on cross-gaming?? really?????!

Interesting.

I think either we stall a bit until we know a replacement can be found for Tuberkulos, or serum someone else on a random basis.

argh! i signed up for the random seruming. i thought it was the best idea for today as i terrible on day ones in all mafia. naughty illuminia for trying to bck off this, esp as spyrex just revoted tuber...

lol...looks like Tuberkulos is back boys.

Good timing too.

what??

[ortolan]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=825

I hope he's gonna post here also, lol. I'll have to assume he's catching up on some reading in this or another game.

[ortolan]

@Gremwell; I don't want to assume that the law of averages applies to metal. Don't read this as outguessing the mod but; I don't think he would assign metal randomly to both scum and town. My gut tells me that most, if not all, of the scum are metal, and the town has few, if any, metal roles. My guts been wrong before, but until proved otherwise, I'll expect a worst-case scenario and go with it.

just starting to worry me your thinking, all coming from the claim by time...it seems like that little thing is clouding yor judgement too much

I agree with Porkens on this point. That's all for now.

[Porkens]

Spy, TE; The slap fighting has got to stop, guys. It's not pro-town in the slightest, and it's only going to degrade into OMGUS.

@Illuminati;

Quote:
Since you turned out to not be lying then, I'm much more comfortable trusting you now. (So don't be scum.)
If this isn't wifom, I don't know what is.

Sorry, I don't get it; how is this WIFOM?

@Random: Like I said before, once you committed to a random assignment for the serum, you're locked into it. You can't even re-roll without muddying the whole thing. It doesn't matter one way or the other if it's going to be "wasted" on a lurker, regardless of whether the mod replaces him or extends the deadline or whatever. This shouldn't have ever been an issue in the first place.

[Wall-E]

FoS: Spyrex, CF Riot

[CF Riot]

The reason I serum'd Spyre is I have a pro-town read on him and I think he's a very logical person in general.

TE, again, explain the logic to me. Anyone who suspects me, explain what kind of gambit this is. I don't think you're using the word correctly unless there's some odd scenario you have cooked up that I just can't picture. As scum, I wouldn't challenge the serum today period because Tuber is not a bad serum candidate for scum and it puts me in the middle of the spot-light regardless. BUT if for some reason I really wanted to try and get it off Tuber and on someone else, I would push for a reroll on the dice and cite Tuber's inactivity, not flat out say "Hey everyone, serum Spyre with me for no reason!"

Can anyone tell me why saying the same things now that I've been saying all game is scummy, when before it was a-okay? What changed?

I like all my votes where they are. TE I have a town read on you, but you really need to start playing more pro-town if you're going to be aligned that way.

[Timeater]

The reason I serum'd Spyre is I have a pro-town read on him and I think he's a very logical person in general.

Or he's your scum buddy.

TE, again, explain the logic to me. Anyone who suspects me, explain what kind of gambit this is. I don't think you're using the word correctly unless there's some odd scenario you have cooked up that I just can't picture. As scum, I wouldn't challenge the serum today period because Tuber is not a bad serum candidate for scum and it puts me in the middle of the spot-light regardless. BUT if for some reason I really wanted to try and get it off Tuber and on someone else, I would push for a reroll on the dice and cite Tuber's inactivity, not flat out say "Hey everyone, serum Spyre with me for no reason!"

I really shouldn't have to explain it. Its pretty obvious. The

facts

are this: We, the town, decided that the best way to handle the serum would be to randomize the process, and anyone trying to tinker with the results after the fact would be considered scum. You and SpyreX made the fatal mistake of doing just that. I dont know exactly what you were thinking, but my best guess is, as I have said, you both thought you could use Tuber-inactive thing to your advantage to get a quick foothold on serum usage, perhaps for a few days (you could easily cook up something to make people keep giving SpyreX the serum). You could porbably also use the serum to confirm each other in fashion. Those few days could make or break the game and the scum would know this. You risked going after the serum at such a late date in hopes pork barreling a new serum majority.

Can anyone tell me why saying the same things now that I've been saying all game is scummy, when before it was a-okay? What changed?

What a generalized and open ended statement. Perhaps if you were more specific about what you've been saying I could take this sentence more seriously.

I like all my votes where they are. TE I have a town read on you, but you really need to start playing more pro-town if you're going to be aligned that way.

Sorry, but from where I'm standing I've been playing a hell of alot more pro-town than you. Thanks for playing.

[CF Riot]

I would rather the serum be used and that assigning

not

be random. Giving the serum to inexperienced or

uninvolved players is increasing the chances that it is not used optimally

.

Wall-E, I explained my reason already. Some people are more considerate of their options and the possible consequences of those options than others. If you let the dice pick, you're taking away valid judgments that can be made towards a person's ability to choose wisely. I'm not worried about random voting giving the serum to scum, I'm worried about giving it to a townie

that will waste it

or use it ineffectively.

I don't think it's a good idea to give up all of our own control as town just to make both sides equally helpless. I value the town's ability to reason more than sheer odds left to randomness.

I say that for today, at least, those of you who want to give the Serum to someone, you

must

abide by the random selection. Any argument against this is a scumtell.

Disagree.

If you're all going to serum randomly, you don't need me to vote for it with you. I think giving useful powers to a useless (so far) player is a bad idea, myself.

Mod:

If Tuber is not getting replaced, can we undo the majority serum vote on him by unvoting/voting a new candidate?

If our random serum technique gets us a serum on someone that's not even here N1 I reserve the right to be the very first person to say "I told you so." Everyone else just has to wait.

----
And here's some instances of other people doing what you're calling me scummy for:

Also I have to say something: if Tuberkulos hasn't even posted in 3 days why should we'd be sure he'll even be around to put in a night choice (assuming he can't also use his power the next day)? I am again, not particularly trying to overturn the serum decision but it is a small concern.

I think either we stall a bit until we know a replacement can be found for Tuberkulos,

or serum someone else

on a random basis.

So again, why is it only now that you're saying, "Oh, Riot isn't following along like a good little sheep, let's kill him!" when I've been saying the same things all along. I never voted to serum Tuber, and I said it was a bad idea a week ago.

[SpyreX]

I really shouldn't have to explain it. Its pretty obvious. The facts are this: We, the town, decided that the best way to handle the serum would be to randomize the process, and anyone trying to tinker with the results after the fact would be considered scum. You and SpyreX made the fatal mistake of doing just that. I dont know exactly what you were thinking, but my best guess is, as I have said, you both thought you could use Tuber-inactive thing to your advantage to get a quick foothold on serum usage, perhaps for a few days (you could easily cook up something to make people keep giving SpyreX the serum). You could porbably also use the serum to confirm each other in fashion. Those few days could make or break the game and the scum would know this. You risked going after the serum at such a late date in hopes pork barreling a new serum majority.

Would you like to show me this mystical we, the town business. Where was a true consensus drawn? I'd really, really like to see it.

I'll raise you one. I am not a metal. I can be hung today. If you're so sure about your "gambit" - hang me and offer yourself up for the lynch. If I'm scum, well, then your awesome abilities nailed two. When I flip town, they can hang you tomorrow and I double win.

So, you that sure of yourself?

CFR has been playing a very pro-town game. The only one who, at this point, I'd think was more town is, in fact, Porkens.

I still have every reason to believe that you are scum metal. every bit of it (this whole "we the town" business, the emo, the coming out, etc) would in fact actually be a good scum maneuver - you've got a lot of upside and even if you're called on it there is no direct link to your partners....versus what you're insinuating we're doing.

So, you're that sure, buck up. You'll be dead tomorrow and thats a win for me.

[Timeater]

That makes absolutely zero sense.

Keep grasping at straws though, its fun to watch.

[SpyreX]

You keep screeching that we are scum. I'm offering myself up for a lynch. Whats so hard about that?

[Timeater]

There is no insinuating going on. This is what I am stating bluntly.

So you're suggesting we lynch you and then I offer myself for the lynch tomorrow? What? What sense does that make? And why would you want to waste a lynch on me? You think I'm steel scum. If you were town, how would such a sacrifice benefit the town? I'm straining to see it. Do you think you dying and your possible subsequent townie reveal makes me scum?

You just aren't making any sense. You seem desperate.

You should have known better to try to undermine the randomization process if you were townie. You really should have. You can attack me all you want, thats fine, but know you have no real defense concerning your attempt to undermine the random serum process.

[Seraphim]

Oh, sorry. Does anyone want me to ask any questions before deadline? I would really not like to be quicklynched or something without having some sort of defense. What are the charges against me?

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: Spyrex

You've made several logical mistakes in post 418:

I really shouldn't have to explain it. Its pretty obvious. The facts are this: We, the town, decided that the best way to handle the serum would be to randomize the process, and anyone trying to tinker with the results after the fact would be considered scum. You and SpyreX made the fatal mistake of doing just that. I dont know exactly what you were thinking, but my best guess is, as I have said, you both thought you could use Tuber-inactive thing to your advantage to get a quick foothold on serum usage, perhaps for a few days (you could easily cook up something to make people keep giving SpyreX the serum). You could porbably also use the serum to confirm each other in fashion. Those few days could make or break the game and the scum would know this. You risked going after the serum at such a late date in hopes pork barreling a new serum majority.

Would you like to show me this mystical we, the town business. Where was a true consensus drawn? I'd really, really like to see it.

I'll raise you one. I am not a metal. I can be hung today. If you're so sure about your "gambit" - hang me and offer yourself up for the lynch. If I'm scum, well, then your awesome abilities nailed two. When I flip town, they can hang you tomorrow and I double win.

So, you that sure of yourself?

CFR has been playing a very pro-town game. The only one who, at this point, I'd think was more town is, in fact, Porkens.

I still have every reason to believe that you are scum metal. every bit of it (this whole "we the town" business, the emo, the coming out, etc) would in fact actually be a good scum maneuver - you've got a lot of upside and even if you're called on it there is no direct link to your partners (3) ....versus what you're insinuating we're doing.

So, you're that sure, buck up. You'll be dead tomorrow and thats a win for me.

1) Assuring the town that you are flesh and therefore deserve the serum is identical to me doing so.

2) The majority of the town assured you AFTER you stated your intent to vote the serum to the most "pro-town" (which, typically, day 1, is easy to scumfake) player that choosing to break the randomized selection plan would be considered a scumtell. The reasons were also stated at that time, but I'll outline them here: Day one is always hard to lynch on. Most times we get a townie. For something as game-influencing as the acquisition of a power we would determine the recipient randomly, to prevent the scum from gaining power night one as much as mathematically possible.

3) You're saying Timeater is too innocent to be town. For scumhunting.

I swear to you, that is what you said there. Read it twice. Also, nobody's insinuating squat. We're flat out saying; "Do not go against the randomness D1."

All that said, I think there is room here for negotiation, but I don't want to hear you call an attack upon you for fighting the random serum unfair or uncalled-for. You made your ultimatum, several others made theirs.

Just my thoughts, grain of salt etc. sorry for the harsh language earlier.

[SpyreX]

I made a small mistake in what I said: Lynch me and offer yourself up for the

synth

today.

As for the other bits, since well, its apparently really hard.

I have said: I think you are scum metal. I've said that from the beginning. On top of your gambit (which would benefit the scum greatly if it worked with minimal risk to the team as a whole) your play has been sub-par and had scumtells: the whole "we, the town", the "/emo", etc.

You have said: CFR AND I are scum because we went against the "consensus of the town" (Which I have asked you to show me and you have not). This would be outing two scum on day 1 for minimal gain, but hey, god forbid we letting strategies that win get in the way.

So, I offered you thus. If you are so sure we are scum, why not lynch me? If I turn up town you've got that proof you need to hunt CFR. However, when I turn up town then you should be swung up so fast it makes your head spin.

WITH THAT SAID:

You just aren't making any sense. You seem desperate.

I'm not desperate. Again, this is one of the many things you're doing that makes me think you're scum all the more. I am totally fine for a 1-1 trade considering the fact that I firmly believe you're scum.

You should have known better to try to undermine the randomization process if you were townie. You really should have. You can attack me all you want, thats fine, but know you have no real defense concerning your attempt to undermine the random serum process.

Again, we've covered the reasons why I opted to change it (notice I said if the serum wasn't moved I would put my vote back on Tuber). We've covered why, based on the rules laid out, I chose the approach of the Razor versus praying for Mod fiat.

You, however, have not even shown me (although I agreed to it) this mystical magna carta where it was said that disagreement with this plan = outing yourself as scum. I'd really like to see it.

But, hey, guess what? Ultimately I don't care all that much. I see Wall-E has shifted his vote, Sera will. Thats almost enough to lynch me. Get on it fellas.

I'll give a different post for Wall-E's comments.