first off, talking after death=awesome mechanicPlum wrote:I am Gretel.
Let me lay this out. The related missions of Hansel and Gretel were for Gretel to ask the mod/target a player at night to find out if that player was Hansel, who in turn was supposed to breadcrumb. As indeed he did. Seeing the breadcrumb SpyreX quoted made me almost certain that Porkens was Hansel, and from that came some of my reluctance to vote him. Let me preempt this by saying that I know flavor isn't everything, but the fact that the scum were given safeclaims suggests that at least in some or many cases roles will have alignments in line with flavor. My role PM implyed that he was town. My first thought was definitely that he was town. In any case, if I found him I would gain a bonus good for the town and it was implyed that Hansel's mission was to be found by me in this way. I targeted him last night and my mission was accomplished, bonus being that I had permission to talk to him for the rest of the game. Masons, in other words, no? Except that Porkens was NK'd.
But reports of his untimely demise were greatly exaggerated! Not quite, but because of ambiguous wording I asked our gracious mod if I could talk to Porkens after his death. He said that his wording implyed that and that the PM info stood. Hence the subtle change in the communications rule at the top of this page.
The call for a claim was echoed by more than one and after a bit of discussion, Porkens and I decided that I should go ahead and claim. To reiterate: I'm Gretel. I am masons with Porkens, can continue to communicate with him, and am almost certain he is/was town.
On that note, Porkens says that his avatarwasa hint, for all who are interested (one I'd have never picked up). He also says that he thinks Dahill is 'scummy as hell for suggesting the mafia NK'd' - no-killed, no? Myself I've had slight, mostly gut suspicions on Dahill today because of the hammer situation and the WIFOMing around about whether to dismiss Porkens as town or not. Hope I've given everyone some more information in respect to that. Regardless, I want to do a reread on Dahill to see how much substance is behind my mostly gut suspicions before I vote or such.FOS: dahill1
Bio - saw your post as I finished this. I'm not sibling partners with anyone, Hansel-Porkens is already dead, I'm not, and town doesn't lose two players if I die - though we do lose communication with Porkens. Hence my claim.
i merely stated the no kill as a possibility, as i definitely don't think that's what happened, but there is always the chance that it did. as i said, i do think porkens was most likely town because he was nightkilled, and this claim pretty much strengthens my beliefs. as for the "hammer situation", i had already stated a few times that i was hammering as we had all come to the consensus that Gorrad was probably scum. i asked if anyone had any points of discussion they wanted to make and no one responded, so later that night i hammered. as elias_the_thief's sig says, a well reasoned hammer=/=scummy.dahill1 wrote:a number of possibilities pop to mind such as possible doc protect, SK killed Porkens, the mafia no-killed for some reason, the mafia didn't have a kill for some reason, you're the mafia, etc. Most of them degenerate into NK WIFOM. I agree that it is most likely that Porkens was town, but I'm just bothered by the fact that he was pretty scummy.
The words afloat,It just seems such a safe thing to do, giving the shoe to someone who was so obviously not the person you were looking for, and now the question becomes why would someone who is possibly scum do that? The shoe didn't kill SpyreX nor did it seem to impede him in anyway. Actually before i go on with my train of thought, Spyrex, can you go into more detail about what happened with the shoe? Where you given it and tried it on and told it didn't fit (too big/too small)? Do you stil have it or did you give it back?
1) I agree with you, wolf. While I still cannot connect with the logical train of thought Fleur used when deciding to target Spyre, the fact that Spyre did indeed receive a shoe does confirm Fleur's actions, and essentially confirms she was telling the truth about her role. This being said, this does not necessarily mean that Fleur is town, as there is still much to be answered about the role, many questions (posed by others earlier) I hope Fleur will answer soon so that I can get some of my confusion cleared up.wolframnhart wrote:I agree that the shoe thing confirms Fleur's role, but i don't believe it confirms her alignment right now.I am sure we can all say why would the prince be a mafia member if he is trying to find someone, and i have no answer for that.For all i know he could be the ogre from puss in boots disguised as a prince finding cinderella, something weird like that.But for now (i realize everyone has said this) i don't like the night action choice by Fleur. There was no reason to test SpyreX when he claimed Rumple, in fact just because he was not the person you were looking for doesn't prove anything Fleur, just that he isn't the princess, and also i am not saying that SpyreX isn't Rumple, but i think you all get what i mean (at least i hope you do).
QFT. As of now, anything is possible in my opinion.SpyreX wrote:I dont find it dumb,
to think Gretel could be scum.
The idea that pork isn't town,
definitely makes me frown.
Answer me this dahill,
If he's scum who did they kill?
She wanted to start by checking every single person randomly. First, there is not enough time to do that (i know it is nit picking on my part but she put it up there) and if it was random on her part, then why does she admit she did it with Spyrex to see if his claim is true? There was really no doubt that SpyreX is Rumple, and since the shoe doesn't tell her who the character is, then there is nothing that told her specifically that SpyreX's claim is true, just that he is not the Princess Fleur is looking for. So why would Fleur give the shoe to SpyreX? To lock in her role claim as Prince, as we have come to believe because SPyreX got a shoe.Fleur wrote:I have just thought I am going to check every single person randomly. Yes, the technique might be bad but it is the one i feel comfortable with. How can i be sure that spyrex's claim was true? so i have just checked him -just in case
and now, i am sure
Then stated today:Fleur wrote:I wrote something once asking if i should claim my missions- that was a spelling mistake, i meant should i claim my mission. i don;'t have more than one
She said she has only one mission, yet she also says if she finds the person the shoe fits she gets a bonus mission, so there is a contradiction there.Fleur wrote:Ok, so every night i have a chance to check one person. if the shoe i found suits him/heri get a bonus mission.i didn't get it yet, cause i didn't find the person tonight. i am a prince
While I personally am almost certain Porkens is town, I realize that you don't have my role PM, which I feel heavily implies he is town, not do you have private communication with him. Having said that, he is not absolutely confirmed and will acknowledge that and use prudence when it comes to his opinions and advice. If an opinion, assumption, etc. of mine is based on something Porkens pointed out to me, I will treat it like an idea/what-have-you from any other player and explain why I feel it's right and relevant. With thoughts from Porkens on which I don't have a specific opinion at the moment, or in other pertinent situations, I plan to quote or paraphrase him clearly and make equally clear that the thoughts are Porkens', not mine.kloud1516 wrote:There may still be a possibility that [Porkens] could have been scum. With this thought in mind, I am apprehensive when it comes to the fact that he is advising you/conversing with you, Plum, for how are we supposed to know if he is truly town, or scum planting seeds of doubt in your discussions to assist any partners he may have?
Your words are trying,as for i know, i only communicated with mod, and i don't get the answer about if shoe fit a person or not, i only know that i got bonus. so i don't think spyrex was that involved in a thing either.
well the person isn't going to just be obvious about it and act like a princess. that's why people breadcrumb like porkens didfleurdelys wrote:Yes, at this stage I do have only one mission- after succeding I get a bonus mission.
You don't have to believe me, but I was honestly randomly checking a person. Why was it Spyrex? Because he was the first one I could think of. Sorry guys, but I don't see anyone who is acting like a princess, so my choice was either random check or not checking at all.
ok so you don't suspect anybody, but still, it was a horrible choice to try and see if spyrex was the person to fulfill your mission, as he had already claimed to be not the princess. You could have easily gone with anybody else.fleurdelys wrote:i know, but at this stage i don't suspect anybody, and so i chose randomly
So why do you think get another mission when most others, or all others, will just get their bonus, not a bonus mission.fleurdelys wrote: Yes, at this stage I do have only one mission- after succeding I get a bonus mission.
This is from the beggining of the game. For no explict reason Fleur decides to proclaim that she will willingly defend SpryeX throughout the game. When questioned on this she explains:fleurdelys wrote:i think i might know who SpyreX is in the game, and I definitely am going to fight for his life:P
This reason of course as everybody knows is not a very good reason to defend someone especially in the setup of mafia. This was interprented as newbish play regarding Fleur's recent join date. However I find with Fleur's recent scummy posts that this was a poor attempted cover up from newbish scum.fleurdelys wrote:spyrex rhymes and things-it is cool and i was thinking more in terms of Grimm tales, and his rhymes remind me of one story, and basically it is a rather good character-good for me
SpyreX wrote:I must be delirious,SpyreX, don't worry about me-i'm the one who talks more then anybody here, so it's bad to judge if shutting up would be a bad idea in my case. it's weird that the players did not think about my role at all. What if my death means that all the town dies?
you can't be serious.
Only idea that festers,
is that you are a jester.
That will not stop,
my lynching this fop!
Unvote
Vote: Fleur
SpyreX wrote:I am no mystic,i can only say that you should save me. i don't know if i can reveal my role, i don't think i can.;however, it is highly important for the townies but important for scums as well. this is why you should give me a chance
how is this opportunistic?
I'm definitey not yelling,
but this looks like flailing.
I know I'm not slow
so what kind of role?
I know its so rude,
but not even a noob
Would be so dumb,
to say they help scum!
This is only a few out of many posts from SpryeX that aggressively pushed against Fleur. As people had noted before that SpryeX had kept narrowly pushed against Fleur to push her lynch a little to excessively. What I picked up was some extreme bussing from a scum partner to get away from a liability. Fleur's directive post to defend SpryeX does some good in confirming this theory as there would be no other reason why Fleur specifically would choose him out of all people.SpyreX wrote:Now that you see,
I'm glad we agree.
Its time for a fire,
under this liar.
No role can abide
that helps both sides
Although she started to squirm,
lets hook this worm.
My stance was made,Let me be clear,
to all who would hear.
If you decide she is fun,
she's not getting the gun.
The choice of my kill,
is up to my will.
So if you let her slip,
better be sure of the flip.
Your song of the VigSpyreX wrote:My stance was made,Let me be clear,
to all who would hear.
If you decide she is fun,
she's not getting the gun.
The choice of my kill,
is up to my will.
So if you let her slip,
better be sure of the flip.
before day 1 was paid.
And if I am scum,
kill number two did come?
So you're saying my role is apparent,In other terms having the power of vigilante doesn't show neither pro-town or scum alignment especially in the setup like this one. Looking back on your actions and the post I posted up I am confident in my suspicions. Also to add a little substance in a pairing between you and Fleur is that you decided not to kill Fleur during the night even when you were aggressively pushing a lynch on her. To back this you stated previously in your quoted post that (paraphrase)"It's the town's decision to decide wheter or not to let Fleur go or be lynched and you'll be holding out on a kill on her" A person who just the other day was trying to get her killed suddenly backs off and kills another person. Is it that when Gorrad was being pushed for a lynch that you retract your previous intention posts to kill Fleur off to give your partner another chance to survive?
Plum wrote:Quick post here: Porkens thinks that Bio is scummy, and on rescan, I do, too. 'Biohazard is SUPER scumming it up right now. FoSing SpyreX for being agressinve on Fleur whilest voting for fleur' and 'L.O.L. at Biohazard for trying to make the town lynch their Vig. Scum just outed himself, 100%', quoth Porkens.
Cool because at this point of time I decided to show my true colors by suddenly aiming for the know vigilante. So let's get my bandwagon on the road *end sarcasm* Also if you care to note that Sprye X was being extra agressive in his case agaisnt Fleur as I've pointed out so I would say it's a bit unfair to call me out on a hypocritical accusation.
Bio: I do still interpret Fleur's 'I'll defend SpyreX' post as newbish play. It's been established that she seems to have majorly misinterpreted what character SpyreX hinted he was for newbish reasons. Personally, I don't see Spy's agressive push for her lynch as extreme bussing. It might have seemed little excessive, but to be perfectly honest I don't think it would have been necessary or advantageous for scum to have done that. Sure, Spy attacked Fleur harshly, but he made a very decent case on her. In any case, in absence of connection not based on clear misinterpretation and a highly subjective interpretation of Spy's attitude towards Fleur, I find this a poorly reasoned case.
Yes, newbish play but at what motive? We have already determined that it was a newb play and obviously I have already pointed it out. Doesn't exactly mean town. Judging from Fleur's actions and I find her suspicious I just connected it to the interactions between Sprye X. As I have stated before I am confident in my suspicions so I believe the two to be scum and of course people will disagree or agree and input can always show error in my logic or perhaps re-enforce some of my theorys or suspicions. I believe Sprye X was a little bit too excessive in pushing agaisnt Fleur so I found it to be bussing especially after Fleur makes a newbish "willingness to defend post" directed at SpryeX.
Again, I think the shoe confirms Fleur's role which very soft confirms her alignment. If many/most of the roles had counterintuitive alignments, the scum wouldn't need much Pie is Good, though on the other hand Spy has claimed an ambiguous-y character.
Pie is Good. Already established that her role is the prince. Sends shoe to SpryeX which seems to of been an odd choice. Speculation could be Fleur and SpryeX are scum partners and SpryeX fakeclaims to receive a shoe but of course it's most unlikely because the gambit would make no sense as Fleur cannot confirm her role to anyone else by sending anyone else shoes.
Bio: Yeah, you do seem to be trying to off a claimed Vig on weak suspicions. Sure, gaining killing powers in no way confirms alignment, but at the same time your case on him consists of 'he didn't kill Fleur, though he attacked her agressively' - note that multiple players advised him and explicitly asked himnotto vig Fleur, 'Fleur seems to have wanted to defend him' (see my counter argument above) and 'Spy attacked Fleur too harshly; it looked like bussing' (see above again.
Basically, you're making very weak conjectures and using them to try to off a claimed power role(yes, alignment not confirmed, I know, but on charges too weak to make me vote for him if he had claimed vanilla'.
Vote:Biohazard
*shrug* To be honest I can refute your outlook on me trying to kill an already claimed vig but of course it would spiral into WIFOM. Basically I'm making my vote based on what I find suspicious and I've already stated people can disagree or agree. I've been put at a bad poistion in hunting scum due to Gorrad being lynched and it's been harder for me to confirm any suspicions or make solid decisions. Is this to defend my actions? No. My actions are based on what I saw scummy and I followed what I saw scummy. Of course I am re-evaluating wheter I've made the right decision as I rather not stubbornly lock onto one thought process.