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Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)
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Lawrencelot Mafia Scum
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I made a subtle change in the rule about communication. Those involved know what I'm talking about. For the others, just follow the new rule:
-Communication: You may never discuss this game outside the topic or when you are dead, unless your role says you can, and if you can, only at the times your role says you can. When you are dead, one “bah” post is allowed, as long as it does not contain any game-relevant information. Also, never quote any pms regarding this game (either sent by me, to me, or by or to other players).Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances-
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Lawrencelot Mafia Scum
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- Location: the Netherlands Alignment: Town
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CoheedCambria09 Goon
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- Location: Canada
First of all thank you for answering about Sirdan. Next, I'm really confused by what you mean in the last 2 lines there. Why would town double if Gretel exposes herself? I don't understandSpyreX wrote: And now to test my mettle,
I'm asking for Gretel.
Her brother is torqued,
For he was obviously pork.
I'm willing to assume,
that she is no loon.
So despite our new troubles,
with her outed town doubles.
Fleur: Your choice to target SpyreX as the person to see it the shoe fits, to me, doesnt seem like a good decision. On Day one Spyrex was given vig powers (pretty much confirmed now), but yet you still decided that it was he who you would target. Reason?ShowMafia 1-1
Town 3-4
Third Party 0-0
Total Wins/Loses 4-5
Ongoing-1
Abandoned-0-
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kloud1516 Executioner
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Okay, I must confess that I am more than just a little stumped at the moment. I thought for sure that either both or one of Gorrad and Porkens would be scum. I think it would be advisable to proceed with caution through today, for since roles/alignment wont be revealed, we are at a disadvantage when it comes to accumulation of information. Gorrad may have been scum, but we cannot know for sure, which doesn't really help us out coming into today. The reread really didn't help me find anything I may have missed earlier in the day, but I will keep trying to find things that I may have overlooked before. At the moment, however, I would like to point out something from today:
So you, Fleur, as a claimed Prince role, decided to check and see if Spyre, who is accepted to be Rumpelstiltskin, had the shoe you were looking for? This does not make sense to me, for why would you target someone whom you already knew was not a princess? If you are searching for a shoe, then I would assume you are looking for Cinderella, if not a princess in general, so why select Rumpelstiltskin? I would think that, unless you are not actually searching for a princess, that it would be clear that Spyre would not help you in achieving your mission. Could you please explain your reasoning for your night action, as it just is not adding up with your role claim in my opinion.fleurdelys wrote:Target? So you want to know whom I choose to check? Ok, it was you, Spyrex, and you weren't the right person-
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fleurdelys Goon
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Biohazard Townie
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This makes no sense. "To check each person randomly" is not a good move as there is no basis for the decision and it's not looking at any people's actions during that day that showed they could be pro-town or anti-town. Looking at these actions can help the outcome on a players decision. Also each night is valuable as each nightaction can not go to waste as town is at a disadvantage at the moment. Basically you've wasted a nightaction for no reason. Spyre X's role has already been confirmed. His posting restricition has already been accepted and even his mission was succeded by Porkens who even stated his name "Rumplestilskin" which in turn gave him vig powers. Not to insult you here but to me it was a foolish and useless move. I certianly don't like how your going to use that style of play since it doesn't add any substance to the town.fleurdelys wrote:I have just thought I am going to check every single person randomly. Yes, the technique might be bad but it is the one i feel comfortable with. How can i be sure that spyrex's claim was true? so i have just checked him -just in case
and now, i am sureFos:FleurHazardous Chemicals Likely-
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dahill1 bagel
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although i agree that Spyre was a bad choice to target for fleur, i do think this somewhat confirms her role. Spyre, you said you received a shoe, correct? that means she indeed is the prince.
also as bio said, fleur don't pick randomly. you should reread the thread and pick who makes the most sense.-
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wolframnhart Mafia Scum
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I agree that the shoe thing confirms Fleur's role, but i don't believe it confirms her alignment right now. I am sure we can all say why would the prince be a mafia member if he is trying to find someone, and i have no answer for that. For all i know he could be the ogre from puss in boots disguised as a prince finding cinderella, something weird like that. But for now (i realize everyone has said this) i don't like the night action choice by Fleur. There was no reason to test SpyreX when he claimed Rumple, in fact just because he was not the person you were looking for doesn't prove anything Fleur, just that he isn't the princess, and also i am not saying that SpyreX isn't Rumple, but i think you all get what i mean (at least i hope you do).
@SpyreX
What makes you sure that Porkens was Hansel? I can get why you thought he was one of the two characters, but why Hansel by name?They tell you never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is on occasion hilarious. - Malcolm Reynolds
Wolf, I fucking hate your face, but still <3 you as a whole. - Starbuck-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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The answer by far,What makes you sure that Porkens was Hansel? I can get why you thought he was one of the two characters, but why Hansel by name?
lies in his avatar.
At the start of the game,
this picture did change.
To what it became?
Someone with that name.
As for the shoe,
I don't know what to do.
Fleur telling the truth,
picking me was uncooth.
But we've got no claim,
Saying fleur doesn't have her name.
So I have to believe,
she's not trying to deceive.
So pick with a reason,
Random is treason.
Unvote
As for where to look,
to find us a crook.
I'll need introspection,
before I find a direction.
By my mettle,
I'd still like to hear Gretel.-
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Plum Mafia Scum
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Gravest apologies for having not posted yet today; have been busy.
Shoe target seems to be soft-confirm of her role, which in these circumstances is about what we're going to get. Still, keep an eye out to see that the next person she targets also receives a shoe. As Wolf said, doesn't fully confirm alignment, but then flavor would indicate that it's more likely she's town. If we relied only on flavor, though, we'd probably be in some sort of trouble, so I'll keep my eye on her.
Having said that, SpyreX was a pretty awful choice for night target - either he was Rumpelstiltskin as claimed and therefore not the princess, or he was scum fakeclaiming, and therefore not the princess. Fleur, please try to excercise more thought next time, i.e. if you have reason to believe someone is not the princess (name claim/what-have-you) don't target that person, please.
@ SpyreX: I'm also confused about your call for Gretel to claim - avatar explaination? I didn't notice it, seems a bit random, but then I'm not sure any scummy reason you might have known that - any details??? Like CC, I'm also curious as to what sort of advantage you see the town gaining by Gretel claiming.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I will quip
In a game with no flip.
Every bit we can get
Can help us not get bit.
I'm going to assume that the pair,
is fair and square.
Thus confirming her narrows,
who we look for in barrows.-
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CoheedCambria09 Goon
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- Joined: April 6, 2008
- Location: Canada
I think I understand what you mean now. By finding out who gretel is, then that will narrow the possibilites of who could be scum in the game.SpyreX wrote:I will quip
In a game with no flip.
Every bit we can get
Can help us not get bit.
I'm going to assume that the pair,
is fair and square.
Thus confirming her narrows,
who we look for in barrows.ShowMafia 1-1
Town 3-4
Third Party 0-0
Total Wins/Loses 4-5
Ongoing-1
Abandoned-0-
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dahill1 bagel
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not necessarily.CoheedCambria09 wrote:
I think I understand what you mean now. By finding out who gretel is, then that will narrow the possibilites of who could be scum in the game.SpyreX wrote:I will quip
In a game with no flip.
Every bit we can get
Can help us not get bit.
I'm going to assume that the pair,
is fair and square.
Thus confirming her narrows,
who we look for in barrows.
first off, we shouldn't automatically dismiss Porkens as town just because he was nightkilled not by Spyre. I admit, it's unlikely, but if Porkens wasn't so scummy I probably would've let this go. Also, even if Porkens was town and Hansel, that doesn't mean Gretel is necessarily in the game or if she is, a town role. I could easily see the mod putting in a Hansel role, and then giving scum a Gretel fakeclaim.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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dahill1 bagel
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a number of possibilities pop to mind such as possible doc protect, SK killed Porkens, the mafia no-killed for some reason, the mafia didn't have a kill for some reason, you're the mafia, etc. Most of them degenerate into NK WIFOM. I agree that it is most likely that Porkens was town, but I'm just bothered by the fact that he was pretty scummy.SpyreX wrote:I dont find it dumb,
to think Gretel could be scum.
The idea that pork isn't town,
definitely makes me frown.
Answer me this dahill,
If he's scum who did they kill?-
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wolframnhart Mafia Scum
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- Location: California
Maybe i am missing something in translation here, but you are saying that Porkens changed his avatar to someone that looked like Hansel? And by that you mean Owen Wilson playing "Hansel" in Zoolander? Thats a pretty far reach.SpyreX wrote:The answer by far,
lies in his avatar.
At the start of the game,
this picture did change.
To what it became?
Someone with that name.They tell you never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is on occasion hilarious. - Malcolm Reynolds
Wolf, I fucking hate your face, but still <3 you as a whole. - Starbuck-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I dont shoot from the hip,@Wolf: Yes, I have already breadcrummbed my role. God I hope the birds don't eat them.
it wasn't the only tip.
He was one or the other,
the avatar made me think brother.
Even if I'm wrong of which,
that doesn't chance the switch.-
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wolframnhart Mafia Scum
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- Location: California
Yea I get the reason why you would think Porkens was one of the two kids, Hansel or Gretel, i saw that post by him too, I just thought that because you were so sure he was Hansel and Gretel is still alive (and lets face it maybe because no one has answered yet sirdanilot could have been Gretel, or else Gretel is staying quiet for his/her own reasons) that i thought you were privvy to info that made you sure Porkens was Hansel, i just didn't think it came from his avatar.They tell you never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is on occasion hilarious. - Malcolm Reynolds
Wolf, I fucking hate your face, but still <3 you as a whole. - Starbuck-
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Biohazard Townie
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If this statement is true the assuming a pair is already out the window. If Hansel and Gretel are indeed in this game which at this point I would assume then I would logically speculate that the two of them would be the "sibling variation" role in which two players have contact with each other and if one or the other dies then both of them go down as well.SpyreX wrote:I will quip
In a game with no flip.
Every bit we can get
Can help us not get bit.
I'm going to assume that the pair,
is fair and square.
Thus confirming her narrows,
who we look for in barrows.
For the nightkills I think though not 100% sure that
-Sirdanilot
-Porkens
Were either of these roles. If that was indeed the case then:
-Mafia did not send a kill in
&
-Both of these players were infact the siblings.
I find that the mafia not sending a kill in odd unless it were for the sheer fact to keep scummy players that weren't scum alive so town mislynches them next day but then I would see them killing off a lesser suspicious person however that would drive into WIFOM logic so I will not press further into that kind of subject.
So if Gretel were indeed alive currently in the game I would refute the proposition in getting Gretel to claim as her role is too valuable at this point. If anybody has any disagreement with it being a "sibling" variation role then please state so.Hazardous Chemicals Likely-
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Biohazard Townie
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Ergh. I have no idea what I meant to say in that beggining statement. Just scratch that off my post. I think what I meant to say was "If porkens was Hansel then Gretel would most likely be dead and getting Gretel to claim would most likely not work." This is of course based on the Sibling speculation.If this statement is true the assuming a pair is already out the window. If Hansel and Gretel are indeed in this game which at this point I would assume then I would logically speculate that the two of them would be the "sibling variation" role in which two players have contact with each other and if one or the other dies then both of them go down as well.Hazardous Chemicals Likely-
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Plum Mafia Scum
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I am Gretel.
Let me lay this out. The related missions of Hansel and Gretel were for Gretel to ask the mod/target a player at night to find out if that player was Hansel, who in turn was supposed to breadcrumb. As indeed he did. Seeing the breadcrumb SpyreX quoted made me almost certain that Porkens was Hansel, and from that came some of my reluctance to vote him. Let me preempt this by saying that I know flavor isn't everything, but the fact that the scum were given safeclaims suggests that at least in some or many cases roles will have alignments in line with flavor. My role PM implyed that he was town. My first thought was definitely that he was town. In any case, if I found him I would gain a bonus good for the town and it was implyed that Hansel's mission was to be found by me in this way. I targeted him last night and my mission was accomplished, bonus being that I had permission to talk to him for the rest of the game. Masons, in other words, no? Except that Porkens was NK'd.
But reports of his untimely demise were greatly exaggerated! Not quite, but because of ambiguous wording I asked our gracious mod if I could talk to Porkens after his death. He said that his wording implyed that and that the PM info stood. Hence the subtle change in the communications rule at the top of this page.
The call for a claim was echoed by more than one and after a bit of discussion, Porkens and I decided that I should go ahead and claim. To reiterate: I'm Gretel. I am masons with Porkens, can continue to communicate with him, and am almost certain he is/was town.
On that note, Porkens says that his avatarwasa hint, for all who are interested (one I'd have never picked up). He also says that he thinks Dahill is 'scummy as hell for suggesting the mafia NK'd' - no-killed, no? Myself I've had slight, mostly gut suspicions on Dahill today because of the hammer situation and the WIFOMing around about whether to dismiss Porkens as town or not. Hope I've given everyone some more information in respect to that. Regardless, I want to do a reread on Dahill to see how much substance is behind my mostly gut suspicions before I vote or such.FOS: dahill1
Bio - saw your post as I finished this. I'm not sibling partners with anyone, Hansel-Porkens is already dead, I'm not, and town doesn't lose two players if I die - though we do lose communication with Porkens. Hence my claim.-
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Biohazard Townie
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I find this to be true,
(I knew it was you )
The dahill suspicion,
I see the position.
A dance and a drink,
I'll have to think.
We've not enough talking,
nor even squawking.
We've fell on our heads,
most of us seem dead.
Lets pick it back up,
and drink from the cup!-
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Plum Mafia Scum
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No, I meant the one SpyreX quoted in post #591. Sorry if the wording was off. I just wanted to reference the breadcrumb and it was already quoted on the page, just wanted to point to it, as it were.Biohazard wrote:Hmm...fair enough. Your role and actions seem to fit in places. Basically it blows my sibling theory out of the water. However at what point did Sprye X quote Porken's breadcrumb before his death?-
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wolframnhart Mafia Scum
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huh, well i am inclined to believe that Plum is indeed Gretel, the knowledge of the reason why the communication rule was changed and the reasoning why is too much to be untrue on her part. Of course where we go from here is a different matter.
Personally i can't shake the Fleur vibe. I am still hung up on the fact of why she would give SpyreX the shoe. Why waste a night action like that? It is obvious she gave the shoe to SpyreX because he admitted he recieved it, but to what point? She wanted to check him? Check him on what? To see if he was really Rumple? Fleur does your ability tell you who the person's character really is once they get the shoe and it doesn't fit?
It just seems such a safe thing to do, giving the shoe to someone who was so obviously not the person you were looking for, and now the question becomes why would someone who is possibly scum do that? The shoe didn't kill SpyreX nor did it seem to impede him in anyway. Actually before i go on with my train of thought, Spyrex, can you go into more detail about what happened with the shoe? Where you given it and tried it on and told it didn't fit (too big/too small)? Do you stil have it or did you give it back?They tell you never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is on occasion hilarious. - Malcolm Reynolds
Wolf, I fucking hate your face, but still <3 you as a whole. - Starbuck
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