Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[TonyMontana]

We need to roll the ball before deadline.

Unsynth/unvote
Mycosynth:CF Riot
Vote:Seraphim

[Gremwell]

concerning Tuberkulos, will he be replaced? he's posted twice, and if he will be replaced it should be done before the N1 to maximize effectiveness.

Yes, he is being replaced. I'm getting on that right now.

as for the pit, is throwing someone in there every day our best option, I know some scum are most likely steel, but we assure them a sure night kill every night by mycoing someone everyday, which will also open it up to questioning why people wern't killed after being thrown into the pit.

I guess what it boils down to is should we desteel someone everyday no matter what, or should we wait for enough suspicion?

and who are we lynching today?

[geraintm]

Bah, four days to deadline.

Vote: Porkens

what was this for, besides obv bandwagon with the post above? you just impatient with deadline looming? wasn't just Spyrex who noticed it

reporting on serum - there has to be occasions when it might not be good idea to report back
some times, obv times you have to, but it isnt 100% either way

dislike anyone who has started to question the randomness of the serum for today. i have to sit there and wonder why they would do that.

with voting/mycoing someone, am still confused. there isn't anyone who has stood out, i would just be mycoing them for the hell of it

[CF Riot]

as for the pit, is throwing someone in there every day our best option? I know some scum are most likely steel, but we assure them a sure night kill every night by mycoing someone everyday,

I thought this too, but the way I look at it, it's still a benefit. If we always Myco scummy people, this forces the mafia to decide on either trying to kill a townish/non-suspicious person and potentially bouncing off steel, or going with the sure thing but taking out someone who would draw suspicion if left alive. The normal scum strategy is kill pro-town people and leave people who could easily be band wagoned. The synth challenges that method.

Regarding synthing me, I suggest you do not. Wall-E is a much better choice. There is no sweet-talking. I am town, which is all you need to know to not synth me.

Also, ortolan's logic about who to synth is terrible. You don't want to synth a claimed steel or a claimed flesh, which leads to the question, who do you want to synth? You say the choice is people who haven't claimed, but this seems to advocate everyone claiming their steel/flesh status, which I would argue against. At some point, you have to throw someone in regardless of what they told you they are. I think Wall-E should be that someone.

[Wall-E]

concerning Tuberkulos, will he be replaced? he's posted twice, and if he will be replaced it should be done before the N1 to maximize effectiveness.

Yes, he is being replaced. I'm getting on that right now.

as for the pit, is throwing someone in there every day our best option, I know some scum are most likely steel, but we assure them a sure night kill every night by mycoing someone everyday, which will also open it up to questioning why people wern't killed after being thrown into the pit.

I guess what it boils down to is should we desteel someone everyday no matter what, or should we wait for enough suspicion?

and who are we lynching today?

CF Riot is right, but not for the reasons he's talking about. It's a bad idea not to mycosynth every day, in my opinion.

Right now, with no serum out there, the town has no vig roles. That means that our only weapon, the lynch, is only useful against a percentage of the town. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't like thinking the lynch might fail. It rubs my sensibilities wrong. It's creepy.

To me, the benefit of metal is outweighed by my fear of metal scum.

Just my opinion.

[Porkens]

Since we can't 'synth and lynch a metal to death in one night, I think we'd be better off just lynching the scummiest person while synthing the next scummiest person.

Of course, at L-1 we'll get a claim, and we can decide from there.

I'm still in favor of synthing time-eater. His claim still puts him at the top of my scum-list right now. And as per my previous 'prediction,' I think he'll be semi-safe as town anyway, so my vote stays for that.

Now for the lynch, I'm going to agree that Seraphim is a good choice for day 1. He's willing to waste the 'synth on Wall-E (who hasn't come off as overtly scummy for me) in what I can see as a semi-random assignment. I think it's scummy to want to use the 'synth less than purposfully. However, I think I see what he is saying about declairing night actions after getting the serum.

that's all the time I have for right now, I'll finish up later today.

[ortolan]

I am Triskelion.

I am a "steel fleet" a town aligned steel being. According to my flavor, I noticed a hole in the razor fields, saw a war waging, and decided to help the fleshies. I win when my faction is the last standing.

If received, I will give full disclosure, and cooperate in any way I can to help verify my claim.

I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring this. Assuming Timeater is telling the truth about his role, this _strongly_ implies that all other townies, or at least the majority, are fleshie. Thus they have nothing to lose by being put in the mycosynth.

Also, ortolan's logic about who to synth is terrible. You don't want to synth a claimed steel or a claimed flesh, which leads to the question, who do you want to synth? You say the choice is people who haven't claimed, but this seems to advocate everyone claiming their steel/flesh status, which I would argue against. At some point, you have to throw someone in regardless of what they told you they are. I think Wall-E should be that someone.

What I meant was they have both made claims and I at this point have no good reasons for doubting either of them. I think if we can get a bandwagon going to synth a different player who then can simply claim metal/flesh then we might have something else to go on.

not quiet no-lynch, you do get the info on his metalicness.

Yes, but coming from the idea that you

believe

that they are metal, there's no point in confirming that they are, especially by wasting a lynch.

This falls into the same category as wanting to synth Wall-E. Do you have any good reason to believe he is scum, and lying about being flesh? If not, why do you advocate wasting a mycosynth on him?

Regarding synthing me, I suggest you do not. Wall-E is a much better choice. There is no sweet-talking. I am town, which is all you need to know to not synth me.

This does not follow... Why should we be more likely to think you are town than Wall-E, and even then why is thinking you're town enough reason not to synth you anymore than it is Wall-E?

Since we can't 'synth and lynch a metal to death in one night, I think we'd be better off just lynching the scummiest person while synthing the next scummiest person.

Of course, at L-1 we'll get a claim, and we can decide from there.

I'm still in favor of synthing time-eater. His claim still puts him at the top of my scum-list right now. And as per my previous 'prediction,' I think he'll be semi-safe as town anyway, so my vote stays for that.

I don't see this either...Not that I'm accusing you or CF Riot, but it seems to me, that assuming Wall-E and Timeater are telling the truth about their roles (which obviously is a big assumption), then the best outcome scum could want is to mycosynth Timeater. This way they remove the metal from a townie who can then be killed. The second best outcome is to ensure the mycosynth gets wasted on someone, rather than potentially used on a scum who will then by lynchable. Funnily enough, these are the two positions occupied by Porkens and CF Riot respectively.

I'd really like to see a good case against, firstly Wall-E, and secondly Timeater if you want to continue attacking them, because I haven't seen a good one so far.

I think I should also defend Seraphim at this point. Porkens, in the above post, seems to be arguing we should lynch Seraphim because he wants to "waste the synth on Wall-E". However this is exactly the same thing that CF Riot (who is also voting for Seraphim) advocates. If we've got a good argument for lynching Seraphim it should be internally consistent. It seems the bandwagon on him is not internally consistent, however.

That said I'm going to keep my vote on Seraphim (I believe he's on 4 votes at the moment) because I wouldn't mind hearing a claim from him. That said there is something I like about the idea of lynching him but also mycosynthing CF Riot, who started the bandwagon against Seraphim and also seems somewhat reluctant to be 'synthed.

That said I'd also like an explanation from Seraphim for this:

First of all, your color tags didn't work. Second...

Seraphim, if the serum-ee decides when and if to reveal his actions, how can we have a policy of asking?

We'll ask, certainly, but any sort of information that we could glean from that night, IMO, is beneficial to the town. The scum will know exactly who the secret roles will be in this game, so the special roles need to make sure that if, say, they got a guilty result on someone, that the town knows that as soon as possible.

What does the "the scum will know exactly who the secret roles will be in this game" mean? I don't follow...

I hope this post isn't too long.

[Wall-E]

Timeater's claim

I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring this. Assuming Timeater is telling the truth about his role, this _strongly_ implies that all other townies, or at least the majority, are fleshie. Thus they have nothing to lose by being put in the mycosynth.

I don't follow. How does his claim infer he's the only metal town?

Regarding synthing me, I suggest you do not. Wall-E is a much better choice. There is no sweet-talking. I am town, which is all you need to know to not synth me.

This does not follow... Why should we be more likely to think you are town than Wall-E, and even then why is thinking you're town enough reason not to synth you anymore than it is Wall-E?

Saw that. Why is my wincon somehow predicated upon yours, CF Riot?

[ortolan]

It says he, being a metal being, "decides to help the fleshies". This implies he is a steel character helping those who are simply flesh i.e. town.

[geraintm]

At some point, you have to throw someone in regardless of what they told you they are. I think Wall-E should be that someone.

i didnt like you trying to guess what the scum woukd be planning on doing. someone (i cant remember who, think it was Time) got toldoff earlier for assuming things about his likely night survival and what the scum would do

and why youpicking on wall-e?


porkens - i don't follow your logic on Seraphim, are you for or against him? you seem to doubt yourself by the end of the paragraph

I don't see this either...Not that I'm accusing you or CF Riot, but it seems to me, that assuming Wall-E and Timeater are telling the truth about their roles (which obviously is a big assumption), then the best outcome scum could want is to mycosynth Timeater. This way they remove the metal from a townie who can then be killed. The second best outcome is to ensure the mycosynth gets wasted on someone, rather than potentially used on a scum who will then by lynchable. Funnily enough, these are the two positions occupied by Porkens and CF Riot respectively.

this appears to be good posting to me, i cant really disagree with ort's logic

[Wall-E]

unvote

[geraintm]

walle - what is the unvote for, the lynch, the serum or the myco?
can you eb that vague?

[Wall-E]

I have set a precident of unseruming and unmycosynthing. Yes, it was an un

vote

.

That's twice you've displayed abject interest in what I'm doing.

Do you have something you'd like to ask me, geraintm?

[geraintm]

i am not picking on you, just you posted straight after i did and i was online, and you just unvoted with nothing else, was just curous was all

[Wall-E]

Vote: geraintm

[Nicol Bolas]

Vote Count

Seraphim(3): SpyreX, CF_Riot, TonyMontana
Illumina(1): ortolan
Porkens(1): Seraphim
geraintm(1): Wall-E
Not Voting: Tuberkulos, geraintm, Illumina, Timeater, Porkens, Gremwell

Serum Count

Tuberkulos(7): Timeater, ortolan, TonyMontana, geraintm, Wall-E, Seraphim, Illumina
Porkens(1): SpyreX

Tuberkulos has reached majority of Serum votes.

Not Seruming: CF Riot, Gremwell, Tuberkulos, Porkens

Mycosynth Count

Wall-E(3): CF_Riot, Seraphim, Illumina
CF Riot(2): ortolan, TonyMontana
Timeater(2): SpyreX, Porkens
SpyreX(1): Timeater
Porkens(1): Wall-E
Not Mycosynthing: Gremwell, Tuberkulos, geraintm


To lynch/mycosynth/serum: Seven
Deadline: 11/14

[Timeater]

I voted for Seraphim.

Still dont know who to myco...

Myco: Wall-E

Meh.

[Wall-E]

I don't really like the implication that you're being carefree with the mycosynth vote.

[Timeater]

Well at this point I honestly just want this day to end so we can get an impression of whats going on tomorrow. Things are starting to stagnate. Much has been discussed about whether its worth it or not to myco someone who has claimed flesh or metal, or someone who hasn't. I came to the conclusion that I honestly dont care a whole lot who we myco -today-, I just want to see it done. And considering you have the most myco votes and are for it, there is no harm in giving you my vote. Effecient bandwagoning.

I'd also like to remind people that it is imperative that we reach a myco vote before a lynch vote. We cannot afford to waste it 1 day in the entire game. So if you are going to lynch vote, please make myco your priority and make sure you dont hit majority before the myco has.

[Wall-E]

I am not for it. I am ambivalent. I guess I should say I'm against it, since I am for using it on someone to make sure it's used, and I am flesh, so I don't want it to be me.

I misspoke earlier when I said I was ambivalent.

[Wall-E]

We absolutely must achieve a majority on myco and serum each day BEFORE the lynch. I don't think anyone can argue effectively otherwise.

[SpyreX]

Its going to be really hard to get me to not myco the metal who I have serious questions about their alignment.

[Timeater]

I am not for it. I am ambivalent. I guess I should say I'm against it, since I am for using it on someone to make sure it's used, and I am flesh, so I don't want it to be me.

Really?

I'm down to mycosynth me.

It's a waste, but I've been quite vocal, so I can see the appeal of doing so.

And this isnt very reassuring:

I just happened to notice that at first you were all, "sure guys, I don't mind synth votes cause I'm fleshie anyways," and now you've turned into, "well, maybe we should synth the person we're going to lynch." It's extremely weak I'll admit, but the way I read that is you tried to claim flesh town to talk us out of synthing you, (as synthing a fleshie does nothing) and now that you're getting close to it actually happening you're trying to find an alternative. Ergo, steelscum.

Wall-E: Can't argue with any of that. It's all possible. I've already stated why I'm meh about being synthed.

You've been really flip-floppy about the whole thing, which leads me to believe that you are the best candidate for a mycosynth bath. First you say you're for it, then you try to weasel out of it, now you're saying ambivalent (did you edit your post somehow? If so why bother saying you "misspoke earlier" in the same post - I cant find any mention of you saying ambivalent anywhere else? Very strange...)

[Wall-E]

When I said I misspoke, I was referring to the inconsistency you just pointed out.

Earlier I did jump someone's stuff like a rabid doberman for saying I should be ok with being synthed. It's never ok to be ok with being synthed, imo.

This is me officially taking back my previous statement.

[CF Riot]

However, I think I see what he is saying about declairing night actions after getting the serum.

I don't know if you misunderstood or simply misspoke. Maybe I'm just reading your post other than you meant it. No one should declare their night actions before they do them. It was debated whether or not they should declare night

results

, which I am against but is more plausible.
----

Also, ortolan's logic about who to synth is terrible. You don't want to synth a claimed steel or a claimed flesh, which leads to the question, who do you want to synth? You say the choice is people who haven't claimed, but this seems to advocate everyone claiming their steel/flesh status, which I would argue against. At some point, you have to throw someone in regardless of what they told you they are.

What I meant was they have both made claims and I at this point have no good reasons for doubting either of them. I think if we can get a bandwagon going to synth a different player who then can simply claim metal/flesh then we might have something else to go on.

You have no good reason to doubt anyone that claims either on D1. No matter who you bandwagon or whether they claim steel or flesh, you have equal reason to doubt/believe all of them. Simply wagoning everyone one at a time as they claim would be stupid. Taking it to the 3rd in line is no more logical than going all the way to the end.

coming from the idea that you

believe

that they are metal, there's no point in confirming that they are, especially by wasting a lynch.

This falls into the same category as wanting to synth Wall-E. Do you have any good reason to believe he is scum, and lying about being flesh? If not, why do you advocate wasting a mycosynth on him?

This is not the same in any way. Lynching someone you believe is metal will send the game to night for the scum to kill, while giving the town no information about that persons alignment. If we myco Wall-E, or anyone, we

know

they are now flesh. Whether or not they were before is irrelevant. I do not

believe

Wall-E is flesh like the other people were believing TE was steel. These two situations are only vaguely similar, and I believe my position is perfectly logical.

Regarding synthing me, I suggest you do not. Wall-E is a much better choice. There is no sweet-talking. I am town, which is all you need to know to not synth me.

This does not follow... Why should we be more likely to think you are town than Wall-E,

You shouldn't. You have equally as much reason to believe him as me.

and even then why is thinking you're town enough reason not to synth you anymore than it is Wall-E?

I do not think Wall-E is town. I know that I am. Also, Wall-E said he was okay with being synthed. I am not.

it seems to me, that assuming Wall-E and Timeater are telling the truth about their roles (which obviously is a big assumption),

This

is

a big assumption. Too big at this point. The rest of what you said doesn't matter to me because I do

not

believe Wall-E's flesh claim with no backing.

I think I should also defend Seraphim at this point. Porkens, in the above post, seems to be arguing we should lynch Seraphim because he wants to "waste the synth on Wall-E". However this is exactly the same thing that CF Riot.

Defending Sera on these grounds is defending him because Porkens is not attacking me. Whether or not Porkens is attacking me has nothing to do with Sera's alignment unless you think Porkens is my scum buddy.
----

why you picking on wall-e?

I feel like it. He seemed like a good avenue to pursue upon replacing in. Also, I don't know what my quote has to do with what you said about me. (Post 309)
----
TE's post 322 is exactly why I want to Myco Wall-E.