Mini 697: Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia {Game Over!}

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bad news, guys, I'm in the game.

I've skimmed/read most of it, but I'll be up to speed entirely soon.

wow I remember you. Its been a WHILE.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

This has been addressed before. If you're going to decide to play this game like ABR, at least actually read things before you pretend not to. No offense to ABR, of course. He does what he does.

[Special Rules

(add “unless specified otherwise” to end of each rule):

1. Each day lasts maximum 3 weeks.
2. Each player has two votes to vote on two different players to be sent to prison. Both votes cannot be used on same player. Players should use the tags Send: MM and Unsend: MM. I will reluctantly accept bolded votes and unvotes.
3. At end of each day, whichever two players has the most votes gets sent to prison for interrogation during the night. If a majority of votes is reached for two players before deadline, the day ends early. Tiebreaker is whoever reached a certain number of votes first.
4. While in prison, the two players will be asked the question: “Is the other player mafia?” The results are shown above.
5. While imprisoned, those players cannot target others and cannot be targeted by others.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Bad news, guys, I'm in the game.

I've skimmed/read most of it, but I'll be up to speed entirely soon.

wow I remember you. Its been a WHILE.

I allowed myself to be imprisoned and crucified by some Romans, but it turns out that in the modern era of paperwork and bureaucracy, a proper resurrection takes 3-6 months to process.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

For all the BS cases that Sly tried to put together, he only gave you a cursory look, as if to hedge his bets.
Like I said, I think scum get some benefit from sending in 1 and ONLY 1 member into prison, so the fact that you are voting Sly and me is not that surprising.
I'm much more convinced that he is scum than that you are scum, but I'm still thinking that sending you back is necessary to find out whether last night was a one-time thing or you may actually be scum.

To TCS and icemanE: Why do you think this game is any different from normal mafia, where we try to hunt for scum? Is your view based on the interrogation chart on page 1? If it is, please remember the huge "unless otherwise stated" caveat. Also:

Has anyone else asked the mod about how sending two scum to jail, given that they know each other's identities, is seemingly bad for town?
If not, don't do it ITT, do it via PM. I've already told you how he answered me pregame, but I'd like to know what responses others get.

This is an idea.

When I consider this, it makes a lot of sense. If we send two townies, they can play their prisoner's dilemma game. If we send two mafia, they get caught (or they play prisoner's dilemma to some other effect, perhaps?). And then if we send a townie and a mafia member, the townie dies. Since there were no other mafia kills last night, we might suspect mafia lacks a normal nightkill. This is one possibility.

However, it's entirely possible that we have only the prison to work with, and the kill from last night was just some sort of mafia superkill (or even the result of a third party superkill), and this speculating is useless.

I do

agree

with you that sending two scum is probably beneficial. So scumhunting is useful. But I want to see at least one or two more nights of evidence in order to see if we can't decipher the mechanics of the game a little more.

If case one were proven to be true, then we could probably assume orangepenguin is scum. In all other instances last night gave us little to no information, especially as rushed as Day One was. My plan as laid out in my second post in this thread is an attempt to gain more information on the setup. We send two people who are not orangepenguin. If one of them dies, on the third night we send both orangepenguin and the remaining individual. Or, we could stop then and reassess based on the gameplay of others.

The general idea is to attempt to see if last night was a fluke, or the typical result of a scum-town pairing in prison. I would say that the two people we send to the slammer tonight should be one person we think has a good chance of being scum, and another person who seems wholly innocent, but might still be hoodwinking us. That way, if we luck out and hit two scum, we see what happens; if we get the same result as Night One, we can be more positive that orangepenguin and one of our sendees are scum together; if both survive, we can see what happens.

As I write I'm becoming increasingly certain that we have the two most probable possibilities here. A scum-town combination lets scum "sneak" a person in to kill the townie, or scum had a one-shot "superkill" that they decided was most beneficial to use on day one in order to confound us. Any other ideas, I'd like to hear and consider of course.

In conclusion, I'd suggest a combination of SlySly and Spring. I believe SlySly to be scum, and Spring has strong town leanings in my view because of his attempt to game the system, but he might still have been scum trying to get us to waste time (though unlikely, in my opinion).

Of course, if we have any townies who would like to volunteer to be sent with SlySly, we could do it that way.

[springlullaby]

This has been addressed before. If you're going to decide to play this game like ABR, at least actually read things before you pretend not to. No offense to ABR, of course. He does what he does.

[Special Rules

(add “unless specified otherwise” to end of each rule):

1. Each day lasts maximum 3 weeks.
2. Each player has two votes to vote on two different players to be sent to prison. Both votes cannot be used on same player. Players should use the tags Send: MM and Unsend: MM. I will reluctantly accept bolded votes and unvotes.
3. At end of each day, whichever two players has the most votes gets sent to prison for interrogation during the night. If a majority of votes is reached for two players before deadline, the day ends early. Tiebreaker is whoever reached a certain number of votes first.
4. While in prison, the two players will be asked the question: “Is the other player mafia?” The results are shown above.
5. While imprisoned, those players cannot target others and cannot be targeted by others.

In my understanding rule 5 specify that the 2 prisoners are night action immune.

If the mod confirms that there is no exception to that rule and that he hasn't lied, then the death of ###(forgot the name) last night is not the result from a night action.

[icemanE]

This is clearly different, Carn. At the moment I see no reliable way of dispensing with scum even when we do find them. Finding out how to do that should obviously be our first priority.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Mod:
Rule 5 specify that while imprisoned, players can't be targeted by another.
Have you lied? Or are there exception to that rule?

I have not lied. The "unless specified otherwise" clause opens possibilities to exceptions to that rule and all other Special Rules.

[CarnCarn]

if we get the same result as Night One, we can be more positive that orangepenguin and one of our sendees are scum together;

But Crazy was town...

As I write I'm becoming increasingly certain that we have the two most probable possibilities here. A scum-town combination lets scum "sneak" a person in to kill the townie, or scum had a one-shot "superkill" that they decided was most beneficial to use on day one in order to confound us. Any other ideas, I'd like to hear and consider of course.

I agree with this.

In conclusion, I'd suggest a combination of SlySly and Spring. I believe SlySly to be scum, and Spring has strong town leanings in my view because of his attempt to game the system, but he might still have been scum trying to get us to waste time (though unlikely, in my opinion).

Why not send Sly and OP? If one of them dies, then we know the N1 mechanism is not a scum sneaking in to get a kill (unless Sly dies and he turns out to be town). If OP dies and is town, then it proves the "scum get a kill by sneaking one in" theory wrong. If they both survive, they could be town or scum together (I think they would probably be town; I don't see two scum surviving intact after being sent to prison). I think this pairing would give us the most insight into the game mechanics and has a good chance of locking up 2 scum.

This is clearly different, Carn. At the moment I see no reliable way of dispensing with scum even when we do find them. Finding out how to do that should obviously be our first priority.

A logical way is to send them to prison, counting on the "unless specified otherwise" clause.

[Albert B. Rampage]

One of CarnCarn and TCS is definitely scum.

[icemanE]

Now that I think of it, we probably aren't going to learn anything if OP goes again. I highly doubt he'd be ballsy enough to kill while in prison again on two consecutive nights.

unsend: OP

.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Send CarnCarn

Send TCS

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Prison Count #10

5 - SlySly (TonyMontana, DragonsofSummer, CarnCarn, icemanE, orangepenguin)
5 - CarnCarn (RedCoyote, SlySly, orangepenguin, Albert B. Rampage, TonyMontana)

2 - orangepenguin (Seraphim, CarnCarn)
2 - springlullaby (Seraphim, SlySly)
1 - Albert B. Rampage (RedCoyote)
1 - The Central Scrutinizer (Albert B. Rampage)

Not Yet Voted:

The Central Scrutinizer (2)
DragonsofSummer (1)
springlullaby (2)
icemanE (1)

Remember the majority is 6 and the deadline is 4PM Eastern November 24th!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sly, can you "take care" of CarnCarn if we send you to prison tonight?

[CarnCarn]

One of CarnCarn and TCS is definitely scum.

ABR plz explain. Not liking my wagon, here.

Now that I think of it, we probably aren't going to learn anything if OP goes again. I highly doubt he'd be ballsy enough to kill while in prison again on two consecutive nights.

unsend: OP.

So, the scum might not kill tonight and you think this is a bad thing??

FoS: icemanE

[CarnCarn]

Sly, can you "take care" of CarnCarn if we send you to prison tonight?

Guys, take a good look at ABR tomorrow if I'm gone.

[CarnCarn]

Actually, never mind that. He's most likely town; I get the feeling he just plays like this all the time.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well, Carn, if we send you to prison are you going to say yes or no?

[Albert B. Rampage]

(if you are locked up with Sly)

[CarnCarn]

Well, Carn, if we send you to prison are you going to say yes or no?

That will probably be irrelevant. And considering what I think about my would-be inmate, I would say "Yes" anyway.

[Albert B. Rampage]

One of CarnCarn and TCS is definitely scum.

ABR plz explain. Not liking my wagon, here.

1.You both agree a lot. Generally scum agree with a town to look better when said townie dies.

2. You both want some sort of "plan". Which helps the scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well, Carn, if we send you to prison are you going to say yes or no?

That will probably be irrelevant. And considering what I think about my would-be inmate, I would say "Yes" anyway.

Okay so you will vote for him to die. Good to know.

Unsend TCS, send SlySly

Sly you have no choice but to vote yes as well.

[CarnCarn]

One of CarnCarn and TCS is definitely scum.

ABR plz explain. Not liking my wagon, here.

1.You both agree a lot. Generally scum agree with a town to look better when said townie dies.

2. You both want some sort of "plan". Which helps the scum.

1. I never liked humscunter (who TCS replaced).

2. No, we're trying to figure out how to eliminate scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So if you are sent to prison with TCS, will you answer yes or no?

[CarnCarn]

Sly you have no choice but to vote yes as well.

And indeed this is exactly the Prisoner's Dilemma. If I think I know what he will answer, then I can use that info to form my own decision. If in fact there is no "unless specified otherwise" clause here, you have no way to punish

either

of us for choosing "No."

[TonyMontana]

Wait, what? So are we gonna send them in to say "yes", now?