Large Normal 240: Baileyposting [game over]

[Vivax]

VOTE: Datisi

Time for an experiment.

[MalcolmTucker]

we're essentially playing mountainous cause our PRs aren't actually using their role. like who cares if you shoot a town?? YOU SHOOT SCUMREADS.

For about the fifth time, scumreads can be wrong, especially D1. I'm not going to apologise for refusing to accidentally vig a doctor or some other important role D1 when they'd have had no chance to claim.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Prince

whatever, I'm ending day on this. I genuinely hate this game.

I'll repeat it 1 more time.

@Malcom you BETTER shoot tonight

I will. If preferred I am happy to go on a consensus town-shot if that works and helps at all to be cooperative.

[MalcolmTucker]

idk, I'm not a fan of UNO just continuing to push malcolm right now, like, I'm literally outed, if you know mafia roles you know what I am, and so like, before I die, can I at least go on malcolm tonight? maf can't kill me right now, like, I guarantee this isn't going to be the case all game, this is literally all I ask for... to not lim malcolm for 1 night here...

Idk what your role is, but I believe you think you can confirm Malcolm. I don't believe you're likely to be able to. And since his claim is so unbelievable I don't think it's useful to risk going into a potential day 4 where Malcolm claims he shot someone who survived and we're no closer to getting any certainty.

If I shoot someone and they survive it means they are scum.

[MalcolmTucker]

That feels like a fair point, though Gibus kinda did similar as Doctor Checker in 2273. He claimed his role without actually clarifying it for like 9 minutes, and basically let Alex do it for him. It's not as pronounced as this looks, though.

Malcolm claims very passively and only when questions gives answers he should've given with the claim in the first place.

You're overthinking this. I was looking like the most likely elimination, I know I have a town role, I revealed said town role. This happens regularly in mafia games, I feel like you're looking for something that isn't there in this case.

[Crescent]

No, it does not. It could mean you were roleblocked, or it could scum saved them. Your claim has no scum-confirming power.

I've really gotta start prepping for work now, but this false narrative that MT can actually confirm someone scum needs to stop. This is the stuff of nightmares.

VOTE: Prince

whatever, I'm ending day on this. I genuinely hate this game.

I'll repeat it 1 more time.

@Malcom you BETTER shoot tonight

I will. If preferred I am happy to go on a consensus town-shot if that works and helps at all to be cooperative.

And here we go again, DESPITE this post.

Speaking of him shooting, it really bothers me that he tried to have his claim directed at someone specific tonight though. It's a 100% chance of meaningful result, and it kinda just completely ignored the whole "scum could save his target" issue. You think someone who's had the role he's claiming for over a month would actually understand it on such a basic level. He doesn't seem to really get how the role he's claiming functions.

I've already pointed out how this is a horrible idea that in no way helps town, and he proposes it again?

I'm going to be so disgusted if MT is town. His play is inexcusable from any town perspective.

[Crescent]

And damnit that quote is missing the "no" that my phone ate for no reason.

But point still stands, he just re-proposed something that's already been shot down once as horrendously anti-town.

[UNOwen]

For about the fifth time, scumreads can be wrong, especially D1. I'm not going to apologise for refusing to accidentally vig a doctor or some other important role D1 when they'd have had no chance to claim.

Not going to risk shooting an important role on N1, especially after a scum flip. No way.

I will. If preferred I am happy to go on a consensus town-shot if that works and helps at all to be cooperative.

Sure I'll risk shooting an important role on N3, np.

[Vivax]

I shudder at the thought of being in Crescents blacklist™
Considering the flavour this game, you could get turned into an eggplant while you sleep and land in an unsavoury situation

[Crescent]

For about the fifth time, scumreads can be wrong, especially D1. I'm not going to apologise for refusing to accidentally vig a doctor or some other important role D1 when they'd have had no chance to claim.

Not going to risk shooting an important role on N1, especially after a scum flip. No way.

I will. If preferred I am happy to go on a consensus town-shot if that works and helps at all to be cooperative.

Sure I'll risk shooting an important role on N3, np.

The problem is this is now the second time he's asked town specifically who to shoot which reads as "make sure I have an excuse that no one dies" as scum, and being offensively clueless at best as town. He still hasn't registered at all that he's nonconfirming if town because scum has doctors.

[UNOwen]

The problem is this is now the second time he's asked town specifically who to shoot which reads as "make sure I have an excuse that no one dies" as scum, and being offensively clueless at best as town. He still hasn't registered at all that he's nonconfirming if town because scum has doctors.

Yes I agree. But also, he's spent two days not using his supposed role despite clearly being aware of its potential utility because he was afraid of hitting a town PR, but now that it's useless and the only way he can be confirmed

is

by hitting town, he's very eager to be given a chance to use it and seemingly not that bothered about the risk of hitting a PR.

[Crescent]

UNVOTE: Enchant

I don't feel like leaving my vote hanging while I'm at work and can't guarantee I'll be in good shape to contribute after it.

[Andante]

The problem is this is now the second time he's asked town specifically who to shoot which reads as "make sure I have an excuse that no one dies" as scum, and being offensively clueless at best as town. He still hasn't registered at all that he's nonconfirming if town because scum has doctors.

Yes I agree. But also, he's spent two days not using his supposed role despite clearly being aware of its potential utility because he was afraid of hitting a town PR, but now that it's useless and the only way he can be confirmed

is

by hitting town, he's very eager to be given a chance to use it and seemingly not that bothered about the risk of hitting a PR.

yeahhh that's kinda getting me too, like, now it's "just tell me who to shoot" but maf literally have doctor(s)

meh, VOTE: Malcolm

I'm not super impressed by this whole "now I'll shoot a TR" but used to be so concerned about hitting a pr???

[Andante]

yall got SILENT so that means Prince was the right move

VOTE: Prince

[MalcolmTucker]

For about the fifth time, scumreads can be wrong, especially D1. I'm not going to apologise for refusing to accidentally vig a doctor or some other important role D1 when they'd have had no chance to claim.

Not going to risk shooting an important role on N1, especially after a scum flip. No way.

I will. If preferred I am happy to go on a consensus town-shot if that works and helps at all to be cooperative.

Sure I'll risk shooting an important role on N3, np.

You understand the difference between vigging someone with the consensus of town and with more info, compared to going on a whim on N1 with little to go on except from the D1 elimination?

[MalcolmTucker]

No, it does not. It could mean you were roleblocked, or it could scum saved them. Your claim has no scum-confirming power.

I've really gotta start prepping for work now, but this false narrative that MT can actually confirm someone scum needs to stop. This is the stuff of nightmares.

VOTE: Prince

whatever, I'm ending day on this. I genuinely hate this game.

I'll repeat it 1 more time.

@Malcom you BETTER shoot tonight

I will. If preferred I am happy to go on a consensus town-shot if that works and helps at all to be cooperative.

And here we go again, DESPITE this post.

Speaking of him shooting, it really bothers me that he tried to have his claim directed at someone specific tonight though. It's a 100% chance of meaningful result, and it kinda just completely ignored the whole "scum could save his target" issue. You think someone who's had the role he's claiming for over a month would actually understand it on such a basic level. He doesn't seem to really get how the role he's claiming functions.

I've already pointed out how this is a horrible idea that in no way helps town, and he proposes it again?

I'm going to be so disgusted if MT is town. His play is inexcusable from any town perspective.

I maintain my position from before - I understand the logic behind eliminating me and if that's what town want to do, then do it.

But if town don't want to eliminate me (and there's clearly indecisiveness here) I am happy to use my role in a way that can gain knowledge - if my vig doesn't work then I know I have caught scum. If town then doesn't believe me, then fine, but you'll know on D5 that I was correct.

[MalcolmTucker]

The problem is this is now the second time he's asked town specifically who to shoot which reads as "make sure I have an excuse that no one dies" as scum, and being offensively clueless at best as town. He still hasn't registered at all that he's nonconfirming if town because scum has doctors.

Yes I agree. But also, he's spent two days not using his supposed role despite clearly being aware of its potential utility because he was afraid of hitting a town PR, but now that it's useless and the only way he can be confirmed

is

by hitting town,

he's very eager

to be given a chance to use it and seemingly not that bothered about the risk of hitting a PR.

I'm not necessarily "very eager" - what I'm saying is that if you're reluctant to eliminate me and want me to use my role, I will use it for the good of the town. Using my role on D3 is also surely wiser than on N1 when we have little to go on info wise.

[MalcolmTucker]

UNVOTE: Enchant

I don't feel like leaving my vote hanging while I'm at work and can't guarantee I'll be in good shape to contribute after it.

Maybe it's just how you approach the game but I don't get why you aren't voting for me when you are insistent that eliminating me is the best course of action here? It seems pretty clear-cut and yet you seem reluctant to commit, to the point of voting for someone else entirely.

[MalcolmTucker]

For about the fifth time, scumreads can be wrong, especially D1. I'm not going to apologise for refusing to accidentally vig a doctor or some other important role D1 when they'd have had no chance to claim.

Not going to risk shooting an important role on N1, especially after a scum flip. No way.

I will. If preferred I am happy to go on a consensus town-shot if that works and helps at all to be cooperative.

Sure I'll risk shooting an important role on N3, np.

The problem is this is now the second time he's asked town specifically who to shoot which reads as "make sure I have an excuse that no one dies" as scum, and being offensively clueless at best as town.

He still hasn't registered at all that he's nonconfirming if town because scum has doctors.

Also - yeah, I did forget this so I get it undermines a case for trying to go for a consensus vig. But still...do you not think scum would at least be aware of this if trying to fake-claim? I'm pretty rubbish with game mechanics and forgetful when it comes to roles/how they operate but I'd at least be more careful to iron this out if I were scum surely, no? I don't know but I feel like you're conflating bad townplay with scumminess here a bit. You should surely be asking - is this how scum would play? Clearly, given the situation, there is little benefit for me if I'm botching a fakeclaim and forgetting pretty key details.

[geraintm]

Hiw did you forget, people have been telling you all day?

[Vivax]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

For the absurdly intense flail

[UNOwen]

You understand the difference between vigging someone with the consensus of town and with more info, compared to going on a whim on N1 with little to go on except from the D1 elimination?

"If preferred" <- meaning you were open to shooting without consensus, leaving it up to town to instruct you otherwise.

[Prince of Paterson]

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to catch up yet. I will be able to do so in about 2 hours. I see there's been a lot of activity but I'd like to read the full context first. From the bits and pieces that I have read, though, I think that despite there being clear issues with Malcolm's play and how it connects to his claimed role, a part of me has trouble believing that scum would manage to do both of these:

a) recognize that this specific fakeclaim with this specific modifier makes sense with the setup (mafia doctor and gunsmith(s)) when it's a rather unusual role
b) not understand the implications of what the role would mean and how it could be used

This thought might be outdated, but it is my immediate reaction. More later.

[MalcolmTucker]

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to catch up yet. I will be able to do so in about 2 hours. I see there's been a lot of activity but I'd like to read the full context first. From the bits and pieces that I have read, though, I think that despite there being clear issues with Malcolm's play and how it connects to his claimed role, a part of me has trouble believing that scum would manage to do both of these:

a) recognize that this specific fakeclaim with this specific modifier makes sense with the setup (mafia doctor and gunsmith(s)) when it's a rather unusual role
b) not understand the implications of what the role would mean and how it could be used

This thought might be outdated, but it is my immediate reaction. More later.

This is a sensible post.

[MalcolmTucker]

You understand the difference between vigging someone with the consensus of town and with more info, compared to going on a whim on N1 with little to go on except from the D1 elimination?

"If preferred" <- meaning you were open to shooting without consensus, leaving it up to town to instruct you otherwise.

Well yes, if the town want me to shoot overnight without revealing my target, I am open to doing that. This is not a contradictory or difficult to understand stance.