Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[charter]

First off, you assume that all kills and protections are random. That's completely not true. IF ANYONE tomorrow says "I picked so and so because my dice told me to", I will consider you scum.

Second, all your 'stats' are are just YOUR opinion. I saw no (actual) numbers that went with it.

I haven't been misleading, you're pulling that out of your ass. If you think it was misleading, you are simply lying to try and lynch me for no reason. Anyone that thinks it is misleading is clearly trying to do the same. It was my thoughts or opinions on matter. I was stating what I thought was LIKELY to happen. I wasn't trying to convince anybody of anything by saying I think it's unlikely to have any deaths tonight, I was stating my OPINION on the matter. Mafia is not a logic puzzle that can be solved by just running equations and crunching numbers.

[Wall-E]

I've been suspicious of omni and charter for some time now. Now that omni has forced my hand, relieving the pressure on charter, I'm opening this can of worms.

charter and omni have been buddy-buddy scumfriends all day. Viewing their posts in isolation, they double-team people, defend themselves, and for the space of one post omni even pretended to attack charter.

SUPRISE scumlords!

[Mirth]

"Attention all personnel, all personnel your annual performance reviews are now in."

VOTE COUNT

GnKoihi - 4 - [Mana_Ku, Stef, Kmd, charter]

charter - 2 - [Wall-E, GnKoichi]
Kiro - 2 - [orangepenguin, Nameless]

Nameless - 1- [TonyMontana]
Stef - 1 - [Puta Puta]
TonyMontana - 1 - [Kiro]

Not Voting - 1 - [Plum]

Edit; fixed
Edit 2; went back and fixed all the vote counts.

[Wall-E]

charter - 2 - [Wall-E, GnKoichi]
Charter - 1 - [Nameless]
??

thank you for bringing that to my attention. its fixed now

[Plum]

Wall-E: Am not pissed with you. However, am curious as to the Charter vote. I.e. - on reread you don't seem to say anything specifically explaining what you find suspicious in Charter's actions. "Pnned by the newbie". That's great:

could you be more specific?

Charter has an opinion on how many NKs are likely to go through. It doesn't seem to be an unreasonable thought, as I stated and backed up above. Statistically, if everything were done randomly, I'd say yes, slightly less than two kills per night. Granted information the town gains through discussion today + extreme WIFOM about who to protect/kill on the part of, well, everyone, that could very well be off the mark. While I appreciate TM's charts in abstract, if only because they look a lot like my own thought process scribbles, it doesn't take informed decision-making into account much. As you have said, though, for our best guess Day 1, math's probably our best bet. Fine, so Charter has a less mathematical but probably not invalid - gut? - thought on how many NKs will go through. GnK argues that he's intentionally trying to mislead the town. As above, I think that a., it's not an unreasonable thought, and b., everyone will try to use their powers to their faction's best advantage tonight whether they think lots of kills will happen or not. So - what point on Charter has GnK made that makes you want to vote him?

That is - what's your thought process in determining that Chater is, in your opinion, scum??? I've seen little out of you about that.

FOS: Wall-E

. Nameless asked you, legitimately, to explain your vote. You unhelpfully said that you think Charter's scum. That's nice. Now do the helpful thing that Nameless actually asked you to do in the first place and tell us why you think Charter is scummy, thanks.

Kiro - on reread, which I didn't have much time for yesterday, the no-protect approach is very

bad

. As stated, gives the scum a clear shot. Sure, it gives the Vigs a clear shot, too, but you have to remember that they're not infallible either. Risk - being at least two, not in the least inconceivably four townies down Day 2. Reward - chance at lead on scum if scum Doc protects and a Vig shoots the protected scum. Chance at not acidentially blocking a Vig hit on scum. Risk>reward here, as discussed above. I'm keeping my eyes on Kiro.

[Wall-E]

Plum: Your first paragraph: I did all that to get a reaction from charter. Then omni jumped in. I'd already been suspicious of their partnership, and now I'm going to reveal my case against them both. You'll have to give me some time, I'm eating dinner.

[Nameless]

The vote is because I think charter's scum.

GnKoichi has yet again pwned charter in post 148.

unvote; vote: Wall-E

Also watching suspiciously: Tony and orange need to start contributing ANYTHING towards scumhunting in the next RL day or two or I'll swap my vote to one of them. I'm willing to give Kiro the benefit of the doubt from now if he doesn't bring anything else awful up. GnKoichi's inability to let drop an obviously bad argument is moving from "newbie" to "scummy".

IF ANYONE tomorrow says "I picked so and so because my dice told me to", I will consider you scum.

No. Justify this, and why a doctor shouldn't (say) randomly choosing who to protect from those they believe are town. And while you're at it, explain why you felt the need to claim D1:

... I will be protecting who I think is town ...

[GnKoichi]

Is my bad argument that I won't drop the NK thing or the Charter thing?

[Wall-E]

The vote is because I think charter's scum.

GnKoichi has yet again pwned charter in post 148.

unvote; vote: Wall-E

I don't understand what you're inferring. Can you elaborate?

[Plum]

Wall-E: Call me stupid, but when you say 'omni', you're referring to whom? Nameless???

[Wall-E]

omg i suck

yes i meant nameless

case to be posted before tomorrow night

[Nameless]

@ GK, the way you keep going about Charter's NK speculation.

I don't understand what you're inferring. Can you elaborate?

The first quote is you not explaining the vote (and doing it to "aggrivate charter" is not an excuse because a) if it was any scum could pull that out of their arse to get away with anything and b) GK had not made any case worth pressuring for) while the second quote is you being an idiot in regards to the newbie being sarcastic regarding a point that's been moot for some time now.

You'll have to give me some time [to reveal my case], I'm eating dinner.

case to be posted before tomorrow night

Long dinner? *Eyebrow raise*

[GnKoichi]

@ GK, the way you keep going about Charter's NK speculation.

That's a tough accusation. If you pay attention to the last few pages, I've only continued talking about it as people have asked me directly about it. Infact, the last time I was asked, I just told Charter to refer back to my earlier posts. So why am I the one who can't let it go?

Guess I can forget about my town read on you.

[Nameless]

So why am I the one who can't let it go?

Recent comments like these:

even when there was no defense for [Charter's] position.

[Charter] said [NK speculation] twice and was unable to come up with any reason for it, yet he hasn't changed his mind even after seeing the reasons against it. Holding on to irrational behavior seems odd to me.

[GnKoichi]

Do people really thinking posting a sentence fragment is going to help?

Also, both those quotes were answers to direct questions. Like I said, other people keep asking me things, so I give answers. My answers, since giving up on the bad no lynch idea, have been consistent. If I were being inconsistent, changing my answers to try to serve different people's ideas, that might look scummy. But I have a point of view, it has a reasoning behind it which I've given several times. No one has posted anything convincing that would oppose my idea, yet people keep questioning it. So again, I'll ask: Who is it who can't let this go?

[Nameless]

Do people really thinking posting a sentence fragment is going to help?

Yes, because it answered the question. Meanwhile, you could have answered those earlier questions without indirectly sniping at Charter. It indicates you still apparently believe Charter was in the wrong in regards to that specific issue, which he kind of wasn't (and Charter

has

adequately justified his position regarding that issue). This demonstrates that you're either verbose and stubborn, or, scum who keeps bringing up a false point - of which I'm starting to lean towards the later.

'kay?

[GnKoichi]

The question I was answering was "Why would I connect KMD & Charter, and how does that make either of them seem scummy?"

Tell me how to answer that without giving my reasons for thinking Charter is scummy. Also, give me the quote where Charter explains his position in a way that I haven't countered. He said that the kills and protects are likely to be focused and thus cancel out, except I gave a post a while ago explaining how some people will avoid the focus to make their kills go where they aren't expected, and some will try to protect off focus for this very reason. I said that and it was dismissed as me "giving a lecture" as someone put it. If giving a valid counter point is being overly talkative, I'm not really sure what you would make you believe me. You seem convinced that I'm scum, or you want everyone to believe that to pull focus away from Charter (if you're both scum, using me as a scapegoat is a good plan). Except once you lynch me and everyone sees I'm town, you and Charter are the next ones gone, because that will only prove that I'm right.

'kay?

[orangepenguin]

Remind me not to go away over the weekend!

Now, once I ...read the giant wall of text at a more appropriate hour, I will comment more, but from what I read since I last posted, Gk looks pretty bad. I will share my penguin thoughts with all of you here.mm.

[orangepenguin]

Okay, so I looked at the date, and I last looked at the thread on Thursday, and never checked it for some reason until now (Sat), so three days, basically. Not TOO bad, but considering we're out of the rando m stage, and discussion spured faster than I thought, then I probably need to get going an d speak.

[GnKoichi]

Orange, while reading through, don't think about me as targeted. There is a lot of hate against me right now, but if you read through rationally, you'll see it isn't grounded. I don't want to get lynched just because I've been defending myself.

[orangepenguin]

I am not going to vote you 'just because you've been defending yourself'. If there is a valid case on you, and I personally think you're scum, then I might vote you.

Considering I have only skimmed what I've missed, instead of actually taking it all in like I should, I'll try to read rationally, just for ya. Also, I see you're a new player. My advice - sign-up for a newbie game to go along with it, since they can be really helpful for new players, to play against people on equal playing field. I'm not gonna give you a "pass" or what have ya, but I'll keep that in mind.

[charter]

I ignore votes put on me with bad or non existant reasoning, hence why I never said anything about Wall-E's.

I've been suspicious of omni and charter for some time now. Now that omni has forced my hand, relieving the pressure on charter, I'm opening this can of worms.

charter and omni have been buddy-buddy scumfriends all day. Viewing their posts in isolation, they double-team people, defend themselves, and for the space of one post omni even pretended to attack charter.

SUPRISE scumlords!

While I am honored to be called a 'scumlord', sadly I am not scum in this game.
However, who have we doubtle teamed? GK? Don't think we're the only two doing that. Kiro? I believe all I've said about him is that he is scum. Hardly something to get excited over just yet. I will elaborate later. We've defended ourselves? What are we supposed to do, just take the onslaught of terrible logic being hurled around here like a baby fighting Tyson? I guess if you've decided some attacks are just 'for pretend' I can't really argue against that.

@Nameless, are you saying dice will be adequate justification for your actions tomorrow? I have a strong town read on two people (at that point it was just one) so I was hoping I could get some protection back from them. I obviously don't know if they are a doc or vig (or even town at all), but then again, no one knows that about me either. I don't see the harm in claiming doctor. Everyone can claim that, doesn't mean a thing.

Add to things GK has done that is scummy: Setting up lynches, and a post humus 'I told ya so'.

[Nameless]

The question I was answering was "Why would I connect KMD & Charter, and how does that make either of them seem scummy?"

First of all, no, the question was (direct quote from Kmd #137) "GnK, what connects me to charter?" Second of all, you could have answered that without giving your reasons for thinking Charter is scummy like so:

Just your willingness to join the attack against me and to defend charter, and you took things I said purposefully out of context to make me look worse.

Also, give me the quote where Charter explains his position in a way that I haven't countered. He said that the kills and protects are likely to be focused and thus cancel out, except I gave a post a while ago explaining how some people will avoid the focus to make their kills go where they aren't expected, and some will try to protect off focus for this very reason.

Both of these theories are opinion, subject to WIFOM, and right now impossible to determine the accuracy of. But, you keep implying Charter's theory is WRONG. You can't know this, it wouldn't be scummy if you could, and it doesn't matter right now anyway. Really!

You seem convinced that I'm scum, or you want everyone to believe that to pull focus away from Charter

I've moved from "probably town" to "neutral", actually, and that would be in the

same post

as I raised two (IMHO) greater accusations against Charter.

Except once you lynch me and everyone sees I'm town, you and Charter are the next ones gone, because that will only prove that I'm right.

Protip: Planning lynches is generally a bad idea for the town, and being confirmed town does not prove (or mean) that you are right.

@Nameless, are you saying dice will be adequate justification for your actions tomorrow?

It would be one way to eliminate WIFOM if you weren't certain of anybody's alignment. I'm not advocating it, but I wouldn't consider it overly suspect (particular not, as you haven't explained why you think, to a DIFFERENT player).

I don't see the harm in claiming doctor. Everyone can claim that, doesn't mean a thing.

Did you, or did you not, claim doctor?

[Nameless]

EBWOP:

Add to things GK has done that is scummy: Setting up lynches, and a post humus 'I told ya so'.

In my experience, those things are fairly common newbie mistakes.

[Wall-E]

EBWOP: Nameless and charter have been defending each other, taking pressure off each other, attacking each other's targets and attackers. Obviously there's nothing scummy about defending oneself. That was a typo due to fast typing.