Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Der Hammer]

Vote:Yosarian2

smellsscum

[Der Hammer]

We might as well just get it over with and lynch me?

[Der Hammer]

Finger of Suspiscion

[Der Hammer]

Vote: Natirasha

Also, see sig.

Explain yourself

[Der Hammer]

I have a strong feeling Panda is mafia.

[Der Hammer]

this tactic of acting scum to catch scum just seems futile, as surely true scum would pick up on it and ignore it thus making a furore over nothing while true scum slip into day two?

[Der Hammer]

Well, for now I"m satisfied with my little squables with BM. Time to turn my focus onto another man.

And that man is.......Der Hammer
DUN DUN DUNN!!!!

He has yet to comment on any major event, nor has he really said ANYTHING relevant, except point out what FoS was to me.

As with the original reason for going after Hoopla, there really isn't a lot we can gauge from Der Hammers actions so far today. Therefore I'd like to see some more thoughts of the Hammer of Der posted in the near future. I'll try and sift through to find the other people who are mostly inactive and haven't posted much relevent soon, but I"m to tired to dig through all this again right now. :p

Not sure this is really a relevant post to be honest? There were people who were less active than me which you seemingly ignored, yet you plucked me from the crowd. I will try and make my thoughts more known soon on the main events of the day.

[Der Hammer]

Unvote, Vote:Hoopla

Made my decision early and nothing he has said since has made me think anything different.

[Der Hammer]

yawn,,,,

Vote:BM

[Der Hammer]

Will make a post more with a more detailed amount of my thoughts so far later

[Der Hammer]

Sorry I am struggling to keep up with anything worthwhile in this game. Just a stream of gibberish from most parties.

Unvote, Vote:Puta Puta

[Der Hammer]

Unvote, Vote:Tubby

until he claims...

[Der Hammer]

Der Hammer,
posts very little and when he does there is hardly any content
so what aever happened to this

Will make a post more with a more detailed amount of my thoughts so far later

My game changing analysis is nearly here. Hopefully sometime sunday

[Der Hammer]

Tubbys claim really doesnt convince me so I think my vote is happy were it is

[Der Hammer]

I have formed the opinion that lynching me actually is a good option for the town. Here is my reason. I am a Miller.

Regardless of whether I suddenly got very active in this game someone would still suspect me for my start, which is bound to lead to confusion. Like I said, I am a Miller, so clearly sooner or later I am going to be incorrectly lynched and I don't want a scenario where a cop comes out to get me lynched on the basis of a false investigation......it is therefore that I dishonourably disarge myself and now endorse a Der Hammer lynch.

Vote:Der Hammer

[Der Hammer]

*ahem

Unvote:Tubby, Vote:Der Hammer

[Der Hammer]

Ok,

read through pages 1-10

The striking features are the whole Hoopla, BM conflict, and in that I think both come out looking scummy. Obviously this is unlikely, but I think one of them may turn up scum. Seems an early attempt by one of them, to try and clear themselves for the rest of the game as scum wouldn't put themselves out in the limelight so early.

Sensfan, and then Tubby also stand out as late suspects on Page 10. Tubby's attempts to act stupid look dodgy, as does Sensfans inconcisency throughout the whole day.

_____________

pages 11-20

Pathetic exchange between BM and some others, to which he says he wont post for a while. Bored me so I voted him.

Puta Puta was involved alot but burnt out tragically.

If you don't die tonight, please, be sure to give us results every single morning. Or we will lynch you.

Have a nice day.

This from Sera just doesnt come accross well to me. Just stinks of someone with some information, setting the balance either further against Putas likely replacement.

________________

Unvote:Myself

________________

2) I think Der Hammer is someone's alt who is trying to screw this game up by not taking it seriously. I am suspicious of usernames which include any mafia terminology to be alts in the first place, and his behavior upto page 10 doesn't do anything to dissuade me.

Thats really not the case.


The Der Hammer is a reference to a German Footballer called Thomas Hitzlsperger, and the Mafia reference is purely coincidental.

[Der Hammer]

Look at the reactions to my bombshell.

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

The ease at which he accepts it? Just looking quickly for a lynch in my opinion.

Vote:Seraphim

[Der Hammer]

Vote:Seraphim

[Der Hammer]

You have been playing like trash all game; you then attempted to give up and be lynched; and you claimed Miller. I am by no means fond of his vote (no explanation as to why you should be lynched), but you're not exactly in any position to be throwing accusations around about. It is unacceptable that you would play so atrociously at this stage of the game (to the point of advocating your

own

lynch), and then snap at your attackers.

Take a breather, calm down.

So you don't want me to accuse someone?

Anyone with any sense can see I have not snapped at my attackers. That is a clear case of twisting my words. A few people voted me and if I had pointed them all out then, yeah I would have been snapped but I choose one person, who just voted me with no analysis, no second thoughts, nothing, just a "hmm, sounds good to me for an easy quick lynch" vote.

Ok, fair enough, maybe some off what I have said is meaningless, but I defy anyone to go such through Day One Pages 1-10 and find something that is relevant and useful now?

I advocated my self lynch, because it is probably the best move for the town. With the distracting play by several of the so-called veteran quality players,the mafia were clearly slipping through the day unnoticed so I thought me being a "waste of space" miller should be the one to take the fall,and at least some of you amazing players should spot the mafia based on their reaction to my claim.

[Der Hammer]

DH's miller claim is iffy. I certainly don't agree with Xyl's suggestion of policy lynching claimed millers (unless they're claiming AFTER a cop claims a guilty on them), but the fact that he only claimed after coming under significant pressure and not as soon as D1 started makes me less inclined to trust him. That and his ease in backing away from the whole self-sacrificing bent. I would certainly not object to a DH lynch at this point.

I'm not backing away from it. As soon as I did it people came out and criticised me for it, which is perfectly fair. People said I would be better off just holding on, and start properly contributing to the town or be labelled a flaker. I understand that I still am, for some, the only lynch today.

[Der Hammer]

But seriously. Your argument opens the way to massive scum WIFOM gambits. At the very most, you should give Der Hammer enough townie credit to cancel out the miller claim; no more. "Don't lynch him ever" is right out.

There is no giving 'townie credit' here. Here and now we make our decision as town. What we won't have is leaving this up in the air, and here is why:

1: If we don't believe him, he is scum, we lynch him here today after we are content with the discussion.

2: If we believe him, we make a pact as town here and now not to lynch him...at all. That pact forces scum to deal with him. They cant afford to go into endgame with what we are essentially deciding is a confirmed townie. It also presents the possibility of blocking a NK somewhere along the way, or, our boy gets into endgame. Also, making the pact means we wont have to worry about our power roles going crosspurposes, Doc/Vig being a simple example (no, not saying we have them). We cant waver on this. Once the decision is made, we stand solid on it.

3: If we believe him, but can't reach a consensus to never lynch him, then we kill him today. Scum has to

know

that we wont lynch him, else they dont have to bother to waste a NK on someone they know we will lynch. Keeping him around has dubious value. Cut him loose while we have elbow room to do it.


So here's the time for the Poker fans. #1 and #3 are the safe routes. The card flips and he is scum or he is town, either way, the game is not won or lost yet.
#2 is the gamble. Should he prove to be scum, we lose. But...if he is town, there are some tangible benefits to keeping him around and we set scum a task that they have to deal with.

The question is, how good is your gut?

I think I see now why the policy is lynch all claimed millers.

Interesting post, just one point though. You completely ignore the possibility of a cult? This game starting in Day One made me think their might just be a cult in this game, and if you all decide to proceed along with me as a confirmed townie, then that would make me a prime target for a cult to recruit?

[Der Hammer]

Also, Der Hammer, why are you randomally cult speculating based on no evidence? I would normally consider that a scumtell, but oddly, in this case, the cult speculation only seems to hurt him, so I donno, it's just weird.

Just making a point that in no way really should I or anyone be considered a "never lynch" candidate.


Xylthixlm, I'm not trying to get myself lynched, clearly as there would be very easy ways to do that, but there was a point were I thought it would just be better for the town if I was. All I ask is people vote for me based on whether they think I am scum or not, if not then help me find someone who is.

[Der Hammer]

Sorry about my absence during the week. Lost internet access due to OS dying
Will catch up soon.

BM

Good! Was interested in what you would have to say.

FOS:skitzer

For trying to add pressure to me, offering a bullshit argument, then backing down when challenged.

[Der Hammer]

Some of you have been incredible hypocrites and hopefully you will get called on it. Accusing me of offering no content will simply offering bland and baseless attacks on me based on "active-lurking" while hiding behind that yourselves. Early in the game I was a miller trying to get through the day without really being a factor. Obviously I didn't want to get investigated, so I tried to slip into day two....in a way I acted just like scum so some people picked up on it. I wasnt sure how to play it, so I decided just to tell the truth and possibily make it work for the town. I still believe it can, because I hope most of you believe me.

IMO, you should treat a miller claim as a player who is unreadable. You don't rush to lynch him because the player is unreadable, but you don't allow the player to live until the end of the game, where you want to have as few unknown quantities as possible. Claimed miller is, thus a very good target for vig if the vig is taking a shot based on his hunch.

Don't like this directing of the vig. Seems like Mafia trying to get a vig to do their dirty work.

Unvote, Vote Sir Tornado.

[Der Hammer]

Unvote

, in light of a replacement being found.

[Der Hammer]

*of Sir T that is.

[Der Hammer]

Unvote, in light of a replacement being found.

You haven't explain why you voted me in the first place though. You accuse me of being scum and asking the vig to do mafia's dirty work for them, but why would mafia want to NK a claimed miller? This was the sole basis of your vote, which, you have now hastily withdrawn under another pretext without answering why.

In this case, mafia would want a Vig to kill the claimed miller (me), sooner or later, to stop them getting into endgame where they could be a threat, and to save the mafia a kill which could be more productive on someone else.


And, no you don't become less scummy when your replaced, but I would at least like to give the replacement the benefit of a couple of posts before the vote is renewed.


And now just laying down to Yos, not even trying to rebutt any of the points made? Are you just accepting that you are rightfully someones 2nd best lynch?

[Der Hammer]

In light of impending deadline

Vote:Seraphim

for now

[Der Hammer]

Obviously everyone is going to be busy between today and tomorrow because of new years, but I will make a final reflection post on the day in case I am lynched. This should come in the next few days.

[Der Hammer]

Yes.

I still am in a position where my lynch might be a reasonably decent move for the town. As stated I am a Miller, so eventually I would become a problem for town so perhaps it is time for me to go gracefully. That said, here are my thoughts on recent events.
____________________

Der Hammer, on the other hand, has been a whirlwind of strange actions that don't quite fit with anything else he says. From claiming miller, to self voting, to cult suspicing on Day 1, when the supposed cult hasn't done anything yet. I think this is the best choice.

Vote: Der Hammer

____________________

In fairness, the cult mention was simply pointing out a flaw in Ectomancers plan to never lynch me, which I disagreed with.


Concerned that I might be lynched via Elmo's diceroll, which is a every strange piece of play.

Looking at those on my wagon we have

Seraphim, Sir Tornado, tubby216...

All three are looking very suspect to me, and I think lynching me with these three all on my wagon is a mistake. Theres 1, maybe 2 mafia right there.

What it all comes down to for most of you, if you actually thought about the actions of the game is whether someone would willingly claim miller on day one under no pressure. My one aim was to avoid a wasted cop investigation which now for better or worse I hopefully have. Make your choice based on these factors, not whether not I have lurked slightly over Christmas-New Years Period.

Good day, and hopefully you will make the right decision. I'm confident I'll see you in Day Two!

[Der Hammer]

Ok 6-7 posts in the time I started writing mine.

SirT, surely it is just part of the game him ignoring you. Admitted it doesnt reflect well on him, but he isnt forced to answer you?

[Der Hammer]

I'm not Scum. Some of you are making the right decision.

[Der Hammer]

Sorry guys, I am in Germany at the moment with very limited access.

[Der Hammer]

Hey, I have had some pretty galling personal problems since Jan 6th, but nothing life threatening to anyone, just something I need to get on with.

For that reason I have requested replacements in my other games, but I am happy to play on in this one. I'm just finding it hard to collect all my thoughts in one place so you will have to bare with me.

I will come back soonish and speculate on what I think of the first day, and the lynch and kills.

Cheers,
Your Miller
Der Hammer

[Der Hammer]

Vote:nat

[Der Hammer]

Been very busy. Will try and contribute soon.

Yours failthfully,

Der Miller

[Der Hammer]

vote Magisterrain

[Der Hammer]

Is it massclaim day today? I think it is, but I could probably be persuaded to hold off until tomorrow.

is anyone familiar with the "unrecruited mafia traitor" role? how do you suppose it works?

My guess would be that both mafia groups were told there was a traitor around, but not who it was, and they could try to recruit one person each night. I'm not sure what his win condition would be prior to recruitment, in that case, though.

The important thing for finding scum though, is that Xyl wasn't identified as being aligned with either of the two scumgroups, which leads me to believe that he did not know who was in them. Because there's no way he would have been given the identities of both if he could ultimately end up aligned with either one or the other.

I just looked at the list of living players and discovered that Der Hammer is still supposed to be in this game. Wow.

Mod: can we get a prod/replacement on Der Hammer, please?

Now beginning work on a long overdue reread.

Yep, I'm still here. Will be working on a reread for a bit.

[Der Hammer]

based off of the posts at http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... ht=#321990 I've concluded that Der Hammer is an alt used to escape meta analysis. He was in several active games under the Der Hammer name, and the rest have ended except for this one. I think he joined his new games under a different alt so that the scumtells he dropped in this game would not be used against him in his other games.

You should perhaps go into novel writing, because thats some good fiction right there.

No, in reality, I'm just a student who has now two weeks to finish a dissertation so thats taking up most of my time. Sorry to have messed people around so much. If a replacement is eager and willing then by all means like them step in, if not I will attempt to get myself back into this game.

[Der Hammer]

Vote:Carncarn

lynching me at this point would be counterproductive.