Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[ortolan]

Also, I'm going to

Vote: Seraphim

While there's not a hugely strong case against him I don't like how he posted in other games and _only_ responded in this game when (and immediately after) it was suggested he was lurking. This implies, of course, that he _was_ lurking.

That brings him to 3.

Also, are we changing to a merit vote for the serum? I'm happy to.

[Timeater]

That bastard Tuber needs to post.

[Wall-E]

I think we're still, at this stage, using the random serum approach. We can decide what to do if something new comes up, but for now I'm all for a random serum assignment.

ortolan: Did you see my point about Seraphim's postings throughout the site? I grant you your own point about the timing, but I think the timing was just bad.

[SpyreX]

Woo stuff happened!

Alright. Finished reading. Time to get to scumhunting! 8D

First of all: I think Timeater's claim may be correct. Seeing as he can't be killed by anything, I say we lynch him today to confirm if he's metal or not. If he lied to stay alive, well, he's probably scum then. Therefore, he dies. Even if the claim that he is metal is correct, however, there's still a problem that he may be metal scum.

Nextly, I feel as if the random serum-giving...well, it doesn't feel right to me. Sure, it's unbiased, but...meh. I don't like the idea of town wasting such a lethal power on a potential scum/lurker. So...

I think that if anyone gets the Serum, he/she should post the following morning with whatever role they recieved and what they did with it that night.

Does anyone disagree with this?

I think I don't like anything about this post.

1.) It happens not long at all after being called out as a lurker.
2.) As was talked about before, lynching a claimed metal is about the worst thing we can do. Give him the 'synth and later we can hang him.
3.) Weighing in against Random is fine - giving no alternative isn't.
4.) Why in the name of everything should the person automatically post with what they did? There are a myriad of reasons to not do just this - some information is better left to stew until the minute it can be sprung properly.

On the flipside, I think I may like everything CF Riot says. You are forced now to post more. <3. I can see a meritocracy (like I've said I would prefer for said serum) - what would you suggest on day 1?

Although I am very for Mycosynthing the actual metal we have claimed versus a shot in the dark at this point.

[Wall-E]

I disagree with the meritocracy and removing lurkers from our random serum pool.

Scum is an arguably more exciting role than vanilla townie. I think vanilla townies are more likely to lurk than scum for this reason.

The meritocracy idea leaves us open to manipulation by the informed minority, and the purpose of the random serum d1 is to test the waters while minimizing risk to the town. I think I'd like to see Illumina get the serum D1. I think it's interesting that the random serum plan only started getting shot down AFTER we'd decided on a target for the serum, so there's always that angle. All in all, I want us to random serum today and switch to a meritorcacy tomorrow when we have a better idea of what we're dealing with re: we'll have one person who got serum'd and can tell us just what exactly it does/how we can best use it properly.

So.

[Wall-E]

EBWOP: meritorcacy/meritocracy

[Wall-E]

EBWOP: Illumina/Tuberkulos (sp?)

[ortolan]

ortolan: Did you see my point about Seraphim's postings throughout the site? I grant you your own point about the timing, but I think the timing was just bad.

Yes, I did. Sorry I misread it though, I thought it said he posted 10 times elsewhere and once here but a skimpy post, but in fact you said _all_ his posts were skimpy. So yer, not a strong case really at all but I haven't found anyone else worthy of a vote so I'll leave the vote on in the absence of anyone better.

Also I couldn't help but notice from two of your old posts...

So you're for the plan as long as the recipient claims their power?

There's something off about that, but...

In light of the fact that it's public knowledge that the player DID receive a power, I think you may be right in this case. I'm going to throw support behind this suggestion.

I *believeeeee* earlier in the thread the mod mentioned that players may or may _not_ receive a benefit from the serum. I might be wrong though?

Also it is "bated breath"

I disagree with the meritocracy and removing lurkers from our random serum pool.

Scum is an arguably more exciting role than vanilla townie. I think vanilla townies are more likely to lurk than scum for this reason.

The meritocracy idea leaves us open to manipulation by the informed minority, and the purpose of the random serum d1 is to test the waters while minimizing risk to the town. I think I'd like to see Illumina get the serum D1. I think it's interesting that the random serum plan only started getting shot down AFTER we'd decided on a target for the serum, so there's always that angle. All in all, I want us to random serum today and switch to a meritorcacy tomorrow when we have a better idea of what we're dealing with re: we'll have one person who got serum'd and can tell us just what exactly it does/how we can best use it properly.

So.

Your point is taken. I am _more_ than happy to stick with the random vote but it is somewhat annoying that almost the only person who has done nothing the whole game is the recipient of the serum. But yes, the point about it being open to manipulation by the scum is a fair one. But I don't understand what this stuff is about Illumina? Didn't you just say that you wanted to maintain the random vote (which went to Tuberkulos) and then suggest we should give the serum to Illumina (someone who neither won the random vote nor has done much to earn the serum based on merit). I don't understand the break in logic.

Also I have to say something: if Tuberkulos hasn't even posted in 3 days why should we'd be sure he'll even be around to put in a night choice (assuming he can't also use his power the next day)? I am again, not particularly trying to overturn the serum decision but it is a small concern.

[Wall-E]

yeah i posted ebwop: illumina/tuberkulos, meaning i used the wrong word in my post and meant to say tuberkulos

sorry for the confusion

[Wall-E]

I want to hear from: Tuberkulos, anyone who hasn't posted since day before yesterday (or longer), and a sexy redhead in a nurse outfit. I'll settle for two of the three.

[Wall-E]

Also it is "bated breath"

Actually, these days it goes either way. You'd have been right a hundred years ago.

[geraintm]

I think it is in town's best interests to assign the serum each day, if it is correct as someone suggested that town proportion is around 75%. Unless of course to balance this the powers the scum gain from the serum outweigh the helpful powers the townies gain from getting it, to balance it out.

disagre, late game when the ratios migth have altered...

I also strongly get the impression that the proportion of mafia who are steel would be greater than the proportion of townies who are steel. I could be wrong, however it is also strongly implied by Timeater's role pm: "you decide to help the fleshies", assuming he is telling the truth about it.

gaming the mod, seems like a poor idea in this game at least untill we have one nights worth of info

serum: Tuberkulos

re: lurking
i try and post once a day at least, yesterday i couldnt i was at a conference.
but i am in the UK, and i am not online when most americans are on, so i never get the whole tiny post, then they reply, then i reply thing to boost my post count
i also dont post at the weekend

To

Wall-E

and everyone else, I think if you believe TE actually

is

metal, whether you think he's town or scum, you should

not

be trying to lynch him, as you are essentially voting to no-lynch. Also, if he is town, you are proving to the scum that he's metal without them testing it out with a kill of their own. (I doubt scum would try this, but you see my point.)

not quiet no-lynch, you do get the info on his metalicness, and day one when we have no info, might be better to go with that than trying to lynch scum when the odds are so bad.

CF's right. I agree with the let's-not-lynch-TE-and-waste-the-lynch argument. Let's either mycosynth or ignore him for today.

i don;'t get this, what you hopig to gain from this? i truly believe he is metalic, so what you planning on doing once you remove that from him?

re orts posting on turbo's lurking. is his urking just in this game or site wide?

About annocing serums power, say person got a cop ability, and he used it and got innocent on someone. is it a good idea to post that straight up then?

and with everyone noticing turbos lurking, grem seems quiet poor too

[ortolan]

I think it is in town's best interests to assign the serum each day, if it is correct as someone suggested that town proportion is around 75%. Unless of course to balance this the powers the scum gain from the serum outweigh the helpful powers the townies gain from getting it, to balance it out.

disagre, late game when the ratios migth have altered...

Sorry, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

I also strongly get the impression that the proportion of mafia who are steel would be greater than the proportion of townies who are steel. I could be wrong, however it is also strongly implied by Timeater's role pm: "you decide to help the fleshies", assuming he is telling the truth about it.

gaming the mod, seems like a poor idea in this game at least untill we have one nights worth of info

I think it was a reasonable speculation personally. And after night one we still have zero info about the proportion of scum who are metal. And the "help the fleshies" part strongly implies the majority of town are not metal.

To

Wall-E

and everyone else, I think if you believe TE actually

is

metal, whether you think he's town or scum, you should

not

be trying to lynch him, as you are essentially voting to no-lynch. Also, if he is town, you are proving to the scum that he's metal without them testing it out with a kill of their own. (I doubt scum would try this, but you see my point.)

not quiet no-lynch, you do get the info on his metalicness, and day one when we have no info, might be better to go with that than trying to lynch scum when the odds are so bad.

No lynch may be a good idea independently of this (it is generally considered better for town to have an odd number of players. Am I right on this?) But I agree, I don't have any reason to doubt Timeater is metal. There is however some reason to be skeptical he is town.

CF's right. I agree with the let's-not-lynch-TE-and-waste-the-lynch argument. Let's either mycosynth or ignore him for today.

i don;'t get this, what you hopig to gain from this? i truly believe he is metalic, so what you planning on doing once you remove that from him?

I agree.

re orts posting on turbo's lurking. is his urking just in this game or site wide?

I just checked, looks like he hasn't posted at all since his last post in this thread on November the 3rd. He may need to be replaced anyway :S

About annocing serums power, say person got a cop ability, and he used it and got innocent on someone. is it a good idea to post that straight up then?

Probably not, but there is also value in evidence for the town that the recipient of the serum was actually town-aligned. It is hard to know how to balance these two issues.

[geraintm]

Sorry, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

he said asign serum every day. i said late game, might not be the best idea to do this

No lynch may be a good idea independently of this (it is generally considered better for town to have an odd number of players. Am I right on this?) But I agree, I don't have any reason to doubt Timeater is metal. There is however some reason to be skeptical he is town.

surely that only applies late game, not at this early stage??

Probably not, but there is also value in evidence for the town that the recipient of the serum was actually town-aligned. It is hard to know how to balance these two issues.

i just wanted to make the point i didnt think it was 100% a good idea to force the person to announce their granted ability and the results

[Gremwell]

if we are going to assign the serum randomly it should be done 100% randomly, otherwise it would not be random. by attempting to alter the pool of people we choose from it only serves to make the process appear random. and arguing that it is not fair or a good roll after the fact as walle said doesn't mater. Thats all part of it being RANDOM, it is totally unbiased, not unfair.

if he needs a replacement then replace him and then give him the serum.

I say it is either 100% random or merit vote, trying to combine the two is just an attempt to manipulate the process while leaving minimal evidence, and very scummy.

[Illumina]

I think switching to a meritocracy plan as soon as it proves advantageous is good play, and tomorrow should hopefully be the time to switch over.

As for today, I think a pure random plan would be best. I'm with CF, any tweaks made to this just allows the scum to try and game the system, defeating the purpose. (I recognize my bias in the random plan, obviously, but I still think it makes sense.)

[Porkens]

Wow, active game!!

I say that for today, at least, those of you who want to give the Serum to someone, you

must

abide by the random selection. Any argument against this is a scumtell.

I also agree, of course, that you must consider whether or not to use the Serum each day based on that day's situation.

I'm going to reiterate that I don't want to use the Serum at all, because I think using it has more risks than benefits.

But, if you are going to use it; see above.

I am completely against a "merit" based assignment today, and probably tomorrow, depending on what happens tonight.

Timeeater's posts have

not

impressed me so far this game, but I'm not convinced he is scum at this point, either. Since there is suspicion on him from multiple sides; I bet he's not going to be nightkilled anyway, so I...

Mycosynth: Timeater

I'm going to do a re-read tonight (if my internet is working from home :facepalmheaddesk:) to cast my lynch vote.

[Wall-E]

Posts 239 and 240: Good posting.

It looks like we're randoming D1's serum. Time to move on, folks, the train is already late for the next stop (deadline town). ALL ABOARD!

Instead of FoSes, I'll be Mycosynthing. I have no strong suspicions yet, but I'm watching...

Unserum.

Serum: Tuberkulos

Unmycosynth.

Mycosynth: Porkens

for betting on Timeater's night demise. Seems almost Nostradamusian in his predictions.

Unvote.

[SpyreX]

Porkens for betting on Timeater's night demise. Seems almost Nostradamusian in his predictions.

Unless we mycosynth him (which I still call as the correct move for the 'sythn) - I'd bet dollars to donuts he survives for multiple reasons (minus the fact I think he'd survive because I still personally feel he's scum).

Regardless of alignment, he wont be killed tonight. THATS RIGHT I MADE A 100% statement ohhh noes.

I am glad that the lurkers decided to lurk a bit less.

P.S. 4 days left. Lets, maybe, use them to lynch someone k thx.

[Seraphim]

Alright, CF. I'll bite.

I'm against the idea of posting what we do with the Serum right away. As scum, there's nothing I like more than seeing a town lay out every piece of information they have hoping it will strengthen the town.

As a townie, there's nothing I like more than seeing all the information I can and acting upon it. I can see some examples of why someone shouldn't claim immediately; but, if someone recieves cop powers and they get a guilty result, shouldn't they say that's what happened?

It's incredibly easy for scum to take what appears to be a well thought out plan and turn it on it's head because they know things we don't. To assume they won't be able to manipulate ideas put in plain daylight is underestimating your opponent. I think how the serum is used by each player is circumstantial, so we shouldn't have a policy that applies to every circumstance.

I agree. But, unless the player feels that circumstances dictate otherwise, I think that anyone we give the Serum to should tell us what exactly he did with the serum.

I checked page 1, and I am entitled as a replacement to request to extend the deadline by 3 days. Does anyone need it? I thought it'd take me longer than this to catch up but I'm okay now.

I don't need an extension.

Seraphim got voted for not being around, then immediately showed up out of thin air. That tells me he's paying attention and choosing not to post.

This is rather unfair.

First...urm...I'm a male. And second, I'm really, really busy in real life. I plan on catching up...today, actually. And actually posting things. For real.

Up until yesterday, I didn't have the time to read and catch up on this game. Now, when I do, I'm attacked for posting? Would you rather I didn't post at all? I'm not saying you're scummy for saying it, but it's a rather weak case, especially now that I'm somewhat active now.

Now...who to vote/serum/mycosynth?

First of all...

Vote: Porkens

While I can't say your 'let's-not-serum-anyone' policy is exactly scummy, your prediction seems to bother me somewhat. It almost seems to be WIFOM; the scum obviously won't kill him at night, even if we de-metal him? I don't like this prediction at all.

Serum: Tuberkulos

The random voting is best for now, after more careful thought. Later, we may want to change that plan, but for the first day/days, random seems like the way to go.

Mycosynth: Wall-E

Meh, whatever. Seeing as mycosynth doesn't seem to harm fleshies, let's do it. [/dice][/b]

[Wall-E]

Bah, four days to deadline.

Vote: Porkens

[SpyreX]

Ok. What in the name of blue blazes.

Timeeater's posts have not impressed me so far this game, but I'm not convinced he is scum at this point, either. Since there is suspicion on him from multiple sides; I bet he's not going to be nightkilled anyway, so I...

This got not one, but TWO votes? That quick.

One with "Four days left" and the other "Some kinda maybe WIFOM"

I'd vote for one of the two of you (probably the latter) but... wait for it... I already am.

Just wow.

[Seraphim]

Urm...I find the post scummy, don't like the predicting quality to it, and am against his anti-serum sentiment?

Also, do you really think that me 'lurking' for four days because of real life is any sort of case for a lynch?

[Wall-E]

Spyrex just had a rather strong reaction to two votes on Porkens.

[Illumina]

Quick question before I run off to do more stuff: Seraphim, if the serum-ee decides when and if to reveal his actions, how can we have a policy of asking?

[red]

Serum: Tuberkulos

[/red]

[red]Mycosynth: Wall-E [/red]