Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Gamma Emerald]

From all my wagon, i only got actual heat from ari so i might belueve that shes the least likely to be scum here cause ive been mulling over that she might be genuine

I also believe that ari jumped on me super strongly in a way that makes me think she was misrepping me and trying to discredit me

???
these thoughts seem at odds

Idk, I contradict myself a lot but he mentioned the word “misrep” so idk?

Contradicting myself is town indicative for me because it means I’m constantly questioning things but that’s me. For a player like Titus otoh, it could be a scumtell.

why bring up Titus? this was about HEM, and maybe indirectly about Ari

[Save The Dragons]

Hq is pretty town

[Harley Quinn]

From all my wagon, i only got actual heat from ari so i might belueve that shes the least likely to be scum here cause ive been mulling over that she might be genuine

I also believe that ari jumped on me super strongly in a way that makes me think she was misrepping me and trying to discredit me

???
these thoughts seem at odds

Idk, I contradict myself a lot but he mentioned the word “misrep” so idk?

Contradicting myself is town indicative for me because it means I’m constantly questioning things but that’s me. For a player like Titus otoh, it could be a scumtell.

why bring up Titus? this was about HEM, and maybe indirectly about Ari

Because in games I played with scum!her she did that quite a bit. I have no meta on either one, so I wouldn’t know.

[Harley Quinn]

Hq is pretty town

Should I be paranoid you’re reading me correctly?

That could also apply to Math.

[MathBlade]

I really feel Dwlee is scum.

Titus hasn’t given a reason other than “matching” and “trying”

I don’t see that here from them.

[MathBlade]

Hq is pretty town

Should I be paranoid you’re reading me correctly?

That could also apply to Math.

I actually don’t have a hard read on you.

You’re in my not today pile because you’re not obvious.

I don’t think I ever hard TR you because (reasons related to main).

[Harley Quinn]

I really feel Dwlee is scum.

Titus hasn’t given a reason other than “matching” and “trying”

I don’t see that here from them.

Is Titus likely to pocket you? I know she did in that normal.

[MathBlade]

I really feel Dwlee is scum.

Titus hasn’t given a reason other than “matching” and “trying”

I don’t see that here from them.

Is Titus likely to pocket you? I know she did in that normal.

She didn’t copy me in that normal you linked.

I had her sus from the moment go.

She could try to pocket me or not if she’s scum.

It depends on her agenda and if I am helping it or not.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Math, it's the false hypothesis comment that irks me

That’s literally how science works.

You build a hypothesis and test it.

StD has a hypothesis I am scum.

I know it’s false but unless I allow him to test it then it becomes extremely antitown.

I build hypothesis and test them.

My StD hypothesis was falsified so I think StD is town.

I had a similar hypothesis with you when I was gunsmith.

why do you use the word falsified
that implies intentional action

[Gamma Emerald]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

Then why shop 6 alternatives?

how is what implo did shopping?

[Harley Quinn]

Hq is pretty town

Should I be paranoid you’re reading me correctly?

That could also apply to Math.

I actually don’t have a hard read on you.

You’re in my not today pile because you’re not obvious.

I don’t think I ever hard TR you because (reasons related to main).

That makes sense, considering you read me incorrectly in the last two games I played with you. I like this answer because if you hard tr me, I’d probably be suspicious based on our history.

[Gamma Emerald]

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

the way I think about Enchant is as follows[do not respond to this in any way that outs your role pls]

Even if Enchant is scum, they should be Ascetic Cop because denying town the most powerful TPR is much stronger than gaining an extra kill via say 1 shot vig imo.

Let's say in both worlds Enchant is an Ascetic Cop because it is the strongest TPR [this is an assumption]

Scum are obligated to kill Enchant rather than let Enchant get a bunch of results. If scum leave him alive for 2 nights and we paranoia lim him on day 3, he will out 2 results which is basically like giving us 2 masons or better if he finds scum.

as for PGO being a threat - um I don't really think it makes any sense for any town role to target enchant ever - if they r scum, they will be outted by the virtue of not dying. If they are town, um whats the point of targetting them?

I do agree he is quite scummy by not playing but I've seen him not play as town b4 so it's kind of like ~shrug~. If he's scum he will get outted anyway by virtue of living too long.

scum could also take roleblocker which iirc is on the same card as ascetic cop
also, enchant took neighborizer last time I saw him play this setup (as scum), so I wouldn't bet on him taking ascetic cop this game as either alignment, he seems to take what he likes vs. what is best

[Gamma Emerald]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

You seem ready to jump ship the moment someone else starts getting pressured though.

I am! It's early in the day and I don't see why I should bind myself to a wagon I like right now.

I really just don't view the game of mafia the same way Titus does where there's some grand explanation of things; I am voting HEM because I want to vote HEM right now and wouldn't mind if the wagon went through, and there's lots of other players that I think are also good lims or who are low-info slots that could use more info before d1 ends.

okay I see things Titus' way a little more after this

[Harley Quinn]

I really feel Dwlee is scum.

Titus hasn’t given a reason other than “matching” and “trying”

I don’t see that here from them.

Is Titus likely to pocket you? I know she did in that normal.

She didn’t copy me in that normal you linked.

I had her sus from the moment go.

She could try to pocket me or not if she’s scum.

It depends on her agenda and if I am helping it or not.

Her push on claimed tpr!Scorpius was scummy af but I read it more like trying to get you off her back.

[Gamma Emerald]

bulletproof is the thing on the other side of ascetic cop, so adjust 1011 to say that instead of roleblocker

[Gamma Emerald]

I think picking ascetic cop is much stronger than picking a jailkeeper/roleblocker type role because ascetic cop can't be blocked in the first place and by picking it you are essentially permanently blocking the cop.

Absolutely.

Mafia players don't always play optimally.

Again, this isn't really

important

, I'm just annoyed that we're basically Contractually Obligated to let Enchant not-play-the-game for 2-3 days.

If someone else was playing like Enchant has this game with top pick, would you have the same attitude towards them?

[MathBlade]

@Math, it's the false hypothesis comment that irks me

That’s literally how science works.

You build a hypothesis and test it.

StD has a hypothesis I am scum.

I know it’s false but unless I allow him to test it then it becomes extremely antitown.

I build hypothesis and test them.

My StD hypothesis was falsified so I think StD is town.

I had a similar hypothesis with you when I was gunsmith.

why do you use the word falsified
that implies intentional action

For any premise to be scientifically valid it must be able to be false, falsifiable.

Eg Does the summer sun cause stained shirts?

This can be falsifiable if we leave a shirt out in the sun and it doesn’t stain.

Instead we learn that it fades, so something else causes the uptick in stained shirts.

They all tend to be sticky too.

So then testing again we can discover more people have ice cream in summer months.

It’s just how to make sure a hypothesis is valid.

Eg are there flying unicorns who exist only outside of space and time can’t be scientific because there’s no way to ever prove it false.

[Harley Quinn]

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

the way I think about Enchant is as follows[do not respond to this in any way that outs your role pls]

Even if Enchant is scum, they should be Ascetic Cop because denying town the most powerful TPR is much stronger than gaining an extra kill via say 1 shot vig imo.

Let's say in both worlds Enchant is an Ascetic Cop because it is the strongest TPR [this is an assumption]

Scum are obligated to kill Enchant rather than let Enchant get a bunch of results. If scum leave him alive for 2 nights and we paranoia lim him on day 3, he will out 2 results which is basically like giving us 2 masons or better if he finds scum.

as for PGO being a threat - um I don't really think it makes any sense for any town role to target enchant ever - if they r scum, they will be outted by the virtue of not dying. If they are town, um whats the point of targetting them?

I do agree he is quite scummy by not playing but I've seen him not play as town b4 so it's kind of like ~shrug~. If he's scum he will get outted anyway by virtue of living too long.

scum could also take roleblocker which iirc is on the same card as ascetic cop
also, enchant took neighborizer last time I saw him play this setup (as scum), so I wouldn't bet on him taking ascetic cop this game as either alignment, he seems to take what he likes vs. what is best

I agree with this. Ari assumes I’m assuming, that because town!her’s first pick would be AC. it would defacto be everyone’s default pick. I agree, it’s totally player dependent.

[MathBlade]

I hate that y’all are agreeing with me now when I said it to Ari and was treated as being ridiculous

[MathBlade]

https://blogs.stjude.org/progress/hypot ... iable.html

Here’s another explanation.

[Harley Quinn]

I think picking ascetic cop is much stronger than picking a jailkeeper/roleblocker type role because ascetic cop can't be blocked in the first place and by picking it you are essentially permanently blocking the cop.

Absolutely.

Mafia players don't always play optimally.

Again, this isn't really

important

, I'm just annoyed that we're basically Contractually Obligated to let Enchant not-play-the-game for 2-3 days.

If someone else was playing like Enchant has this game with top pick, would you have the same attitude towards them?

Enchant was being blatantly scummy and weird in that game Implosion linked. Here he’s just nai for me so far.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald << Town I think? More active than most scum games

what is your meta basis for this? I'm not always active as scum but I'd say in the early game I can be pretty active as scum

[Harley Quinn]

I hate that y’all are agreeing with me now when I said it to Ari and was treated as being ridiculous

Another thing I’m thinking is that it would be extremely stupid for anyone to pick 1 and AC if they had any familiarity with the setup. So I could see that making way more sense in a closed set up because why put an automatic target on your back?

[MathBlade]

Gamma Emerald << Town I think? More active than most scum games

what is your meta basis for this? I'm not always active as scum but I'd say in the early game I can be pretty active as scum

I can’t think of a specific game you just seem quieter as scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

convince one person your mech interpretation is right and my mech interpretation is wrong and I will continue this conversation with you. Otherwise I am just going to assume you are wrong and wasting my time.

I think you both raise valid points
your argument makes sense because Bee in the last run I was in had top pick as scum and we voted her out D5 (I think) because she hadn't been killed yet despite her ascetic cop claim