Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

ortolan · Post Post #50 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:42 pm

Firstly, here's hoping for an Obama victory

But I have to take you up on something:

I am the best candidate to get a power because I will become immune to the whole night-kill process

What do you mean by that? "become" implies a change you will undergo as a result of taking the serum. If you are suggesting you will "become" immune because you are metal then you already metal, so this doesn't make sense.

If you are suggesting you will "become" immune in some additional sense having taken the serum, then I thought you didn't know what the serum would do to you?

Care to comment?

Timeater · Post Post #51 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:51 pm

Er, thats a typo. Just like how I said "As I player, I dont really have any gimmicks are obvious "tells" - typing 'are' when I meant "or" - I meant to type "I am" in that instance.

I haven't really been 100% lately, sorry. :/

Timeater · Post Post #52 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:57 pm

I am really hating myself right now for that. Stupid typo.

You know what we could do, if people dont believe my claim - we could elect another person for serum usage and vote for me today (if that would make people comfortable). You will see me survive the day because I cannot be killed, and we can save any innocent townie from being killed. And then you could give me the serum d2. But then there is the issue of serum reciever dying that night...>_<

You could both give me the serum AND vote for me. I like that idea.

Timeater · Post Post #53 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:59 pm

Maybe alignment is revealed for a metalloid being lynched but survived? Worth a shot.

Or I could just ask

@Nati - Will the alignment of a lynchee be revealed even if a death does not occur?

SpyreX · Post Post #54 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:04 pm

I intended to illustrate that simply voting for oneself without claiming serves no purpose.

The vote IS. It is being. It is one with the Juffo-wup.

The fact that you would see role-claiming as a method to "prove" oneself to the town AS town makes me wonder about you.

That is, admittedly, a possibility.

Unless you think our mod didn't think of

the most basic strategy for winning in a game where one could give their PM's

it is more certain than the sun coming out tomorrow.

I actually did have an alternative in mind. This was that we let a fair portion of the day go past and then simply nominate who we found the least scummy for the whole day. Hopefully we would get a townie and then the mafia would have no idea of their role or possible serum abilities and whether they were worth nightkilling. My reasons were for not stating this plan up-front is that it would have given mafia players a reason to act particularly unscummy were they aware of it up-front.

We find this a better course. We wish it would have been taken. The one taken is not a good one. The fact that this better plan was just kept quiet until unveiling versus what has happened is worth noting.

I really dont see the harm in claiming when I did. Coming from my perspective, I had to claim - the only downside of me claiming is that it gives ammunition and a topic to some possible scummers that haven't posted yet. I cant persuade people to give me the serum on my gaming merits alone; I'm a relative newbie here - the best thing I could do was claim.

You ask for trust when you have done nothing to warrant it. In fact, you have thrown it all out on the table and simply said "this is me" and now can shift the focus to just that.

Like I said, if you dont like how I'm playing, or believe I am not to be trusted, you can always toss me in the Mycosynth pit a few days from now.

"After wasting the valuable serum day 1 and, in fact, not being able to kill me directly the next day you can after I've done massive amounts of damage if I am scum (and you have no reason to think I am town) kill me - ps I have also claimed a role that will by nature force kills onto someone else and give me a perfect reason why, if I am lying, I in fact will never be NK'd"

If someone else claims metal today, I'm guessing they are scum. I know thats a huge case of WIFOM, but eh. If you are a fellow townie metal player, hold off as long as possible. We dont need egos clashing d1 to grab the first serum power, and we dont need the scum knowing who you are to make a mycosynth case on you.

Words float away from us in sadness at seeing those words. We find..sorrow.

The palest of winds blows into town. We find ourselves backed against the tower.

We must fire.

Unvote
Mycosynth: Timeeater
Vote: Ortolan

Until the eyes are proven to be town, why should we, or any, trust?

For shame upon you.

Preview Edit:

You could both give me the serum AND vote for me. I like that idea.

Waste the Serum AND potentially waste the lynch?

Timeater · Post Post #55 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:14 pm

sigh@SpyreX

Such a fool. A fool of a Took. Or scum.

LOOK. ASSUME I AM TELLING THE TRUTH.

CAN YOU AFFORD TO LOSE SUCH A VALUABLE ASSET D1 BY MYCOing ME

NOW

?

Thats just foolish. Its like lynching a claimed cop or doctor d1.

OMGUS

Mycosynth: SpyreX

SpyreX wrote:Waste the Serum AND potentially waste the lynch?

90% of all d1 lynches hit townies. I'm sorry, how is that a waste? Pontificate more plz.

Wall-E · Post Post #56 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:18 pm

In my role PM I have an indication that the serum will grant me powers. I see no such indication in Timeater's PM. For that reason alone, I will not vote to serum Timeater.

SpyreX · Post Post #57 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:27 pm

Ok, wacky silly time is over.

I'm sick and tired. So I'm a little over-zealous and my ravings are probably a lot more funny to me than anyone else.

So, serious business time.

We've had, in essence, two major developments. Neither of which I like.

1.) Talking about a plan in the future isn't a good idea. The plan you setout isn't good for a few obvious reasons.
a.) Considering how important the Myco is, we have to assume that Metal status is independent of alignment.
b.) Considering our mod is going to let us give our PMs, we have to assume that scum have safeclaims or we could just win right now.
--- thus, this plan was a bad one.

Now, to time.

You've give no reason, absolutely none at this point to warrant the serum.
You've given no reason for me to assume you are telling the truth.
You asked, in the scenario where you are telling to truth, to waste a lynch on you.
IF you are lying, we are 1.) giving a PR to the scum. 2.) not giving a PR to the town AND 3.) giving a PR to a scum that we can not remove in a day.

The potential of you being scum outweighs any chance of me being pro giving it to you today.

Metals are a damn nice benefit to the town but they are such a detriment in scums hands that yes, I will vote to Myco ANY metal that comes out that is not confirmed.

Instead, we should have done what is obvious - play it out like a normal game and, before lynch, decide who to give the serum to based on their play.

90% of all d1 lynches hit townies. I'm sorry, how is that a waste? Pontificate more plz.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for with this. Of course more than an average number hit town because there are more town then scum. Would you suggest no lynching in its place?

Further, even if that PROVES you are metal it does NOTHING to prove your alignment - and thats the part I care about.

Giving the serum to a metal is a bonus. Not a right.

And it's a bit more like lynching a claimed BP in a game where you know BP's will exist on both sides of the spectrum. Not quite the same thing.

In my role PM I have an indication that the serum will grant me powers. I see no such indication in Timeater's PM. For that reason alone, I will not vote to serum Timeater.

Concerning the Blinkmoth Serum: The Blinkmoth Serum is a substance that activates the inate abilities of a person. All players at the start of the game are vanilla. To gain abilities, they must be imbued with the Blinkmoth Serum. You may only vote for one person to get Serum, though. See Concerning Voting for how to vote for a player to be imbibed with serum.

Again, we must assume that ALL of us would get SOMETHING from the serum. That is not a reason to give or deny it.

Don't play for the serum, play to lynch scum.

Then you'll get the serum.

Timeater · Post Post #58 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:28 pm

In my role PM I have an indication that the serum will grant me powers. I see no such indication in Timeater's PM. For that reason alone, I will not vote to serum Timeater.

Do you think I just made the role up? Do you think I'm lying about the role? Or do you think that just because there isn't indication about serum there will be no effect when I get power? According to Nati's original post in the queue, anyone could get powers. And I dont see any rules about metal players not being able to recieve powers the benefits of serum.

Concerning the Blinkmoth Serum: The Blinkmoth Serum is a substance that activates the inate abilities of a person. All players at the start of the game are vanilla. To gain abilities, they must be imbued with the Blinkmoth Serum. You may only vote for one person to get Serum, though. See Concerning Voting for how to vote for a player to be imbibed with serum.

Wall-E · Post Post #59 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:35 pm

Don't play for the serum, play to lynch scum. Then you'll get the serum.

So, play mafia. Gotcha. Where's that rolling eyes emote?

ortolan · Post Post #60 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:45 pm

ortolan wrote: I actually did have an alternative in mind. This was that we let a fair portion of the day go past and then simply nominate who we found the least scummy for the whole day. Hopefully we would get a townie and then the mafia would have no idea of their role or possible serum abilities and whether they were worth nightkilling. My reasons were for not stating this plan up-front is that it would have given mafia players a reason to act particularly unscummy were they aware of it up-front.

We find this a better course. We wish it would have been taken. The one taken is not a good one. The fact that this better plan was just kept quiet until unveiling versus what has happened is worth noting.

There was a reason I kept it quite, which I have already given. Namely that it would encourage scum to act as un-scummy as possible in order to attract the vote. We can still go for this plan, especially if no-one else claims. It was unfortunate Timeater claimed when he did. I really hope no-one gets the impression I tried to engineer my suggestion so that people were encouraged to give Timeater the serum specifically.

Timeater wrote: Er, thats a typo. Just like how I said "As I player, I dont really have any gimmicks are obvious "tells" - typing 'are' when I meant "or" - I meant to type "I am" in that instance.

That has to be noted also I'm afraid.

Wall-E wrote:In my role PM I have an indication that the serum will grant me powers. I see no such indication in Timeater's PM. For that reason alone, I will not vote to serum Timeater.

As I've stated, my role pm also seems to suggest I will gain certain powers from the serum. This is another reason to be somewhat suspicious of Timeater's role claim.

Perhaps everyone could give an indication of the extent to which their role pm suggests what power they will gain if they get the serum (but do not reveal your role or what the benefit of the serum is). If it turns out everyone's does but Timeater's then we'll have good evidence for a fakeclaim.

I in fact now think it may be a good idea to go with my original suggestion: let discussion take place and ultimately vote to give the serum to least scummy player without any roleclaims. It seems too risky to give Timeater the serum, especially in light of SpyreX's point in 54:

After wasting the valuable serum day 1 and, in fact, not being able to kill me directly the next day you can after I've done massive amounts of damage if I am scum (and you have no reason to think I am town) kill me - ps I have also claimed a role that will by nature force kills onto someone else and give me a perfect reason why, if I am lying, I in fact will never be NK'd

If Timeater has no idea what the serum will do for him then there's no particular reason to give it to him. Additionally if he is indeed made of steel he's (barring scum having a remove steel skill) safe from a nightkill anyhow.

ortolan · Post Post #61 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:47 pm

[/quote]Do you think I just made the role up? Do you think I'm lying about the role? Or do you think that just because there isn't indication about serum there will be no effect when I get power? According to Nati's original post in the queue, anyone could get powers. And I dont see any rules about metal players not being able to recieve powers the benefits of serum. [/quote]

I don't want to talk about probabilities but it is certainly *possible* you made the role up, or are lying about the details. Perhaps the mod could clarify if indeed everyone gains some power from the blinkmoth serum.

Timeater · Post Post #62 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:48 pm

Ok SpyreX, at least I know what kind of player you are now. Extremely, extremely cautious - to the point of getting in the way of good play. ^_^;

1.) Talking about a plan in the future isn't a good idea. The plan you setout isn't good for a few obvious reasons.
a.) Considering how important the Myco is, we have to assume that Metal status is independent of alignment.
b.) Considering our mod is going to let us give our PMs, we have to assume that scum have safeclaims or we could just win right now.
--- thus, this plan was a bad one.

I dont disagree with point 1, but you're shooting down ideas before they even have a chance to come to fruition. I dont like this. You're not giving Ort (or myself) a chance to even talk about things without casting us in a negative light. I'm a firm believer in

bonding until those bonds are broken

or the "best buds" philosophy as I call it

Anyone can be the cold analytical sniperkid, not granting any case of WIFOM in any situation, only relying on hard lynch evidence, never trusting anything anyone says no matter the situation. Thats simply not my style and not the way I wish to go about playing most games. Especially this one.

Can you, in your own words, define what a safeclaim is, and how it would apply to this game?

The potential of you being scum outweighs any chance of me being pro giving it to you today.

Do you really think I'd be so bold to claim as early as I did if I was scum? If not me, then who? Everyone else is vanilla. Its a bad idea for more metalliods (if they exist) to step forward in hopes of getting the serum. I dont understand your confusion.

Metals are a damn nice benefit to the town but they are such a detriment in scums hands that yes, I will vote to Myco ANY metal that comes out that is not confirmed.

With that logic, a Metalloid will never get the serum because you will have Myco'd them to confirm them. That makes

ZERO

sense.

Instead, we should have done what is obvious - play it out like a normal game and, before lynch, decide who to give the serum to based on their play.

We can get a better scumhunting process going in the Serum/Myco stage before the lynch stage. Thats what should obvious.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for with this. Of course more than an average number hit town because there are more town then scum. Would you suggest no lynching in its place?

I would suggest voting for me in hopes that an alignment reveal would be possible through the process.

Giving the serum to a metal is a bonus. Not a right.

I am really starting to take your hostility towards the idea of a town-aligned metalloid getting a power as just pure fear. Extreme, un-adulterated scummy fear. Your first response to my claim was to myco vote me. What does that say about you? Rationalize it however you want, I think that was a big error on your part. I'm watching you.

Wall-E · Post Post #63 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:00 pm

Timeater wrote:Ok SpyreX, at least I know what kind of player you are now. Extremely, extremely cautious - to the point of getting in the way of good play. ^_^;

I think you are too happy-go-lucky.

1.) Talking about a plan in the future isn't a good idea. The plan you setout isn't good for a few obvious reasons.
a.) Considering how important the Myco is, we have to assume that Metal status is independent of alignment.
b.) Considering our mod is going to let us give our PMs, we have to assume that scum have safeclaims or we could just win right now.
--- thus, this plan was a bad one.
I dont disagree with point 1, but you're shooting down ideas before they even have a chance to come to fruition. I dont like this. You're not giving Ort (or myself) a chance to even talk about things without casting us in a negative light.

This is not a streaming conversation. We are playing a game on a message board. Spyrex's opinion is just one of many. Feel free to say as much as you please on any subject you can imagine without letting the opinions of others influence you. (note that the author doesn't do this, but it's up to the perogative of the player.)

I'm a firm believer in
bonding until those bonds are broken
or the "best buds" philosophy as I call it Anyone can be the cold analytical sniperkid, not granting any case of WIFOM in any situation, only relying on hard lynch evidence, never trusting anything anyone says no matter the situation.

I think you are too happy-go-lucky.

Thats simply not my style and not the way I wish to go about playing most games. Especially this one.

I think you are too happy-go-lucky.

Can you, in your own words, define what a safeclaim is, and how it would apply to this game?

I'd also like to hear the definition of "safeclaim."

The potential of you being scum outweighs any chance of me being pro giving it to you today.
Do you really think I'd be so bold to claim as early as I did if I was scum? If not me, then who? Everyone else is vanilla.

WIFOM

Its a bad idea for more metalliods (if they exist) to step forward in hopes of getting the serum. I dont understand your confusion.

I am against ANYONE claiming unprovoked. This is just something I've learned by playing this game. I've played with groups who spontaneously claim like you do, but in the environment of mafiascum such is anathema to most of these players' style, and they'll attack you for it (evidence: Spyrex)

Metals are a damn nice benefit to the town but they are such a detriment in scums hands that yes, I will vote to Myco ANY metal that comes out that is not confirmed.
With that logic, a Metalloid will never get the serum because you will have Myco'd them to confirm them. That makes
ZERO
sense.

I think he's saying let's stick to the better plan of "Myco scummy folks (esp. if they survive a lynch), serum pro-town folks, and nobody claims unless they're at L-1."

Instead, we should have done what is obvious - play it out like a normal game and, before lynch, decide who to give the serum to based on their play.
We can get a better scumhunting process going in the Serum/Myco stage before the lynch stage. Thats what should obvious.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for with this. Of course more than an average number hit town because there are more town then scum. Would you suggest no lynching in its place?
I would suggest voting for me in hopes that an alignment reveal would be possible through the process.

Let's ask the mod before going with that plan.

Giving the serum to a metal is a bonus. Not a right.
I am really starting to take your hostility towards the idea of a town-aligned metalloid getting a power as just pure fear.

Duh. Only stupid people are fearless.

Extreme, un-adulterated scummy fear.

What?

Your first response to my claim was to myco vote me. What does that say about you? Rationalize it however you want, I think that was a big error on your part. I'm watching you.

For the record, I agree with everything Spryex has been saying. Am I scummy too?

Wall-E · Post Post #64 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:01 pm

Finally:

MOD: Does EVERYONE get power from Blinkmoth? Will a lynched metallic person's alignment be revealed? (I'm guessing not because I'm smarter than a 5th grader)

Timeater · Post Post #65 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:08 pm

I believed I asked that question of Nati 11 posts ago? Anyway, I'm sorry I'm -so- carefree(zomgscum) - being metal and all I dont have alot to worry about! :>

I am against ANYONE claiming unprovoked. This is just something I've learned by playing this game. I've played with groups who spontaneously claim like you do, but in the environment of mafiascum such is anathema to most of these players' style, and they'll attack you for it (evidence: Spyrex)

QFT :sniffle:

ortolan · Post Post #66 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:13 pm

I highly doubt a lynched metallic person's alignment would be revealed. That would make it far too easy for town metal players (of whom Timeater claims to be one) to clear themselves.

Timeater · Post Post #67 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:19 pm

Also:

MOD: How do you assign Blinkmoth powers? Are powers selected from a random pool of pre-determined powers? Can all players graduate with serum to an "evolved" version of themselves? Or is it just upto your whims what the power will be?

Wall-E · Post Post #68 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:27 pm

MOD: Who are the mafia?

wait

Timeater · Post Post #69 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:29 pm

TonyMontana · Post Post #70 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:13 pm

ortolan wrote:
There was a reason I kept it quite, which I have already given. Namely that it would encourage scum to act as un-scummy as possible in order to attract the vote.

Lol, wut?
Because without the plan, scum wouldn't bother? [face_palm]

Wall-E · Post Post #71 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:24 pm

I've done slightly scummy things as town to avoid the mafia's NK before.

Tuberkulos · Post Post #72 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:31 pm

Ok, I'll read through this soon enough. First I just want say:

So we meet again, Timeater...

TonyMontana · Post Post #73 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:12 am

Wall-E wrote:I've done slightly scummy things as town to avoid the mafia's NK before.

And you're sharing this why?

geraintm · Post Post #74 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:57 am

Vote: Wall-e

Serum: Wall-E

Mycosynth: wall-e

[/color]

as i said in my post, i would vote for the 4th person after me.
and i am lost already. my head hurts so much

my experience with mafia is that day one almost goes wrong, almost impossible to actually vote for mafia. but if there is someone i find scummy today, i am going to both lynch them and through them in the Mycosynth, can't see a reason at the moment not to have them linked for me today.

oh yeah, post 68 best i have seen in a long, long time