Mini 697: Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia {Game Over!}

[SlySly]

The dice roll was a joke.

I sent Tony because he said he wanted to go. Spring should be sent for coming up with the idea.

[icemanE]

Spring shouldn't be sent

specifically because

it was his idea.

[CarnCarn]

So, 1 more vote for OP and it goes to night already... hmm

[CarnCarn]

OK, I'll do it.

Unsend: SlySly
Send: orangepenguin

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Prison Count #5

7 - Crazy (RedCoyote, DragonsofSummer, icemanE, Crazy, Seraphim, orangepenguin, CarnCarn)
7 - orangepenguin (DragonsofSummer, Seraphim, orangepenguin, springlullaby, icemanE, Crazy, CarnCarn)

3 - springlullaby (humscunter, SlySly, springlullaby)
2 - TonyMontana (RedCoyote, SlySly)
1 - humscunter (TonyMontana)
1 - icemanE (TonyMontana)

Not Yet Voted:

Albert B. Rampage (2)
humscunter (1)

Remember the majority is 7 and the deadline is 6:30PM Eastern November 18th!

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Day 1 is over. The prisoners for tonight are

Crazy and orangepenguin

.

It is now Night 1. All choices are due 8:30PM Eastern Tuesday, November 4th, 2008 (U.S. Election Day). Any late choices could be subject to nullification or randomization.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Everyone wakes up and gathers at the center of town to start another day of discussing which two people should be sent to prison.

The Police Chief shows up as well and announces, "There has been a break-in last night at the prison. An unidentified suspect broke through various levels of security and managed to kill Crazy in one of the interrogation rooms. Nobody else was hurt. Orangepenguin was released from prison without completing the interrogation process."

He adds, "Well everyone, time for you to get back to work!"

Crazy, Protown Vanilla Townie, killed Night 1

It is now Day 2. With 11 alive, 6 is the majority! The deadline is 4:00PM Eastern on Monday, November 24th, 2008.

[CarnCarn]

Why would someone kill the prisoner? This game makes even less sense than it did to begin. I am really clueless right now.
We were all going under the assumption that the prisoners would be safe from any night targets, but apparently this is not the case. If this scenario can repeat, then sl's plan is surely busted.

[DragonsofSummer]

That kill worries me, and I agree that we have now found the hole in the plan. The biggest problem is we gain no information from that night because of it. Basically an entire day was wasted imo.

[CarnCarn]

5. While imprisoned, those players cannot target others and cannot be targeted by others.

I really don't think the mod would lie to us, despite what the Police Chief claims to have happened.

Mod: Did you lie to us?

^^Eh, we'll see where this goes^^

This makes me think the kill had to somehow be conducted from within (either OP, or someone subsituting for OP, or some other character that has access to the interrogation room).

[Crazy]

Bah. Go town.

(I had joined too many games anyway... so it's not bad that now my loads lightened a bit.)

[orangepenguin]

I had said "No", but because of the break-in, I didn't get any info. =/

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

5. While imprisoned, those players cannot target others and cannot be targeted by others.

I really don't think the mod would lie to us, despite what the Police Chief claims to have happened.

Mod: Did you lie to us?

^^Eh, we'll see where this goes^^

Note the "unless otherwise specified" clause in the parentheses after Special Rules.

[icemanE]

OK so spring's plan is more or less null and void, which pretty much brings us back to square one. From now on it seems to make sense to me that we should send at least one person we find scummy each night, if possible. What I mean to say is that it probably shouldn't be random anymore. The Yes/No mechanic makes it nearly impossible to guarantee a good outcome even if we do send someone we think is scummy, though - anyone else have any ideas?

[icemanE]

@ OP - forgot to ask, did you still get daycop power or not?

[springlullaby]

Then what is the sense of this game?

Even if we put scum in prison, it's at best the paper scissor thing because a scum who is sent to prison because of he is suspected has no motive to answer anything but yes.

[CarnCarn]

Exactly spring. I'm thinking theres a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff going on here. I will point again to my statement about trying to put two scum in prison together. I really don't think they would want that.

[icemanE]

Then what is the sense of this game?

I wouldn't say there's no sense in it, it just can't be broken as easily as you assumed. I for one am glad it's more complicated than it seemed at first, because if all it took to beat the setup was your plan, how fun would that be?

[springlullaby]

I was expecting something more along the line of millers and godfather to jazz things up.

Exactly spring. I'm thinking theres a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff going on here. I will point again to my statement about trying to put two scum in prison together. I really don't think they would want that.

Yeah, maybe. But that's bastardly.


A couple of questions.
ABR, still want to go to prison?
OP, I'm interested in an answer to IcemanE's question too.

[CarnCarn]

Send: Seraphim
Send: SlySly

Gonna leave it at this for now. Will explain later when I get a chance.

[orangepenguin]

@ OP - forgot to ask, did you still get daycop power or not?

All my pm said was that there was a unknown person who broke in.

My pm never said anything about a daycop power, so I guess that means no daycop powers. =/

[orangepenguin]

I don't care who goes to prison at this point. If you guys want to send me again, fine, but I also understand if you don't. Maybe we should send Tony this time?

How is everyone else basing their sends though? Are you sending people you think are scummy? Pro-town? Both?

[RedCoyote]

Dammit, how can the police not recognize someone that breaks into their office?

Sigh. So we can pretty much assume that we don't have a town killing role, at least not one who shoots at night. This is the biggest disappointment.

I have a feeling there is more to this story than meets the eye. Either one of the scum's powers is the ability to break into jail, or OP is up to no good.

Just assume the latter for a second. If OP had chosen "Yes" and Crazy chose "No", what do you expect were to have happened?

Would the Mod have told us that one person ratted out the other during investigations? Or would that be kept a secret with a concoted story about a break in? The reason I bring this up is because Mod's rules only state that,

X (or Y) executed instantaneously.

Is the town intended to know if one of the jailers squealed or not?

OP, if you are town, and you chose yes, it would be much, much better for you to tell us now than to act ignorant. Because right now I'm thinking you are scum and because of your scumminess you had Crazy killed.

The obvious problem with this theory was that if this was OP's doing, where's the real NK?

I've still got some questions, but I don't think any of us should be too quick to write off OP as someone who is confused as we are.

[SlySly]

I'm so confused!!!

An

unidentified suspect broke

through various levels of security and managed to kill Crazy in one of the interrogation rooms.

The bolded part makes it sound like this was the work of one individual, not like the work of a scum group. Since prisoners, according to the rules, "cannot target others and cannot be targeted by others" this leads me to believe this is an exception to the rule and not a traditional NK. The lack of another kill on the players that "can be targetted" leaves open the possiblity that traditional NKs don't exist in this game. Maybe we do have a town killing role Red. This could have been a vig kill. That would seem ridiculous, to me, on the first night, though I have seen stranger things happen. Or, this could have been OP up to no good internally as Red suggested. I could be reading far too much into the flavor of Crazy's death scene, but with the inference of prisoner protection in the rules, I kind of doubt it.

Yesterday, in my opinion, was rushed through blindly on the wings that Spring's plan had a fairly good chance of flying. To me, as I pointed out, the idea was suspicious from the start. With all of the unknown's of a theme game, nothing is ever that cut and dry. To suggest such a black and white blueprint of breaking the game suggests to me this is the action of scum trying to confuse the town.

At this point, who to send to prison seems to be a toss up to me. I see advantages that have arisen for each side if they are sent to prison together or 1 of each.

If we send 2 scum to prison. They will know, unless of course there are 2 scum groups, that they are in together and can both vote 'no.' Would that not give them both a protection or an immunity? That sounds like advantage scum to me.

If we send 2 town to prison. The scum will know that too. Will these prisoners be safe from targetting tonight? With the happenings of last night, I don't think that can be assumed. The 2 town would have no way of knowing if their cellmate is town as well so they would have to question which way to vote. It could end 2 bad ways for the voting prisoners. Only good result would once again come from only a double 'no' vote. To me, there doesn't really seem to be a clear advantage here either way. I could see scum crossing their fingers hoping for a yes/yes or a yes/no outcome.

If we send 1 scum and 1 town to prison. Obviously the scum knows he is in with town. He is going to vote 'yes' because he knows that no matter what the townie votes, there is a chance the townie will die. I would assume the townie would vote 'no.' Even though he would die, his death would expose the other as scum. Unless I am missing something, I would say this is advantage town.

Of course, as we saw last night, these scenarios can only play out if there is not a break in.

I don't know what combo we should try to send. If we all decide to send any suspected of being scum, I am going to send Spring again as I still believe the plan to be intended town distraction.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think we can agree that from now on, we only send suspicious felons to prison.