Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm sorry guys, I made a mistake. I checked my PM too quickly and when I read the words "Babylon 5" early in my PM, I thought that's what I was but in fact, I am EarthForce. Sorry about that.

That means 5 x B5
and we're in fact 3 with EarthForce.

The races remain unequally distributed, with Narn having 4, and Centauri having 2.

[armlx]

I think Kinetic is outguessing the mod too much on the balanced factional distribution among the races, but the even race distribution seems like a very viable assumption.

[Kinetic]

I'm sorry guys, I made a mistake. I checked my PM too quickly and when I read the words "Babylon 5" early in my PM, I thought that's what I was but in fact, I am EarthForce. Sorry about that.

That means 5 x B5
and we're in fact 3 with EarthForce.

The races remain unequally distributed, with Narn having 4, and Centauri having 2.

I hate you.

But this means if KoC claims Minbari, then I'm still right though.

This will, however, change my vote because without the possibility of veerus not being B5, he drops on my list a bit.

Unvote; Vote Theinternet

I'll repost with more later, that first post took me all night last night to prepare, and what has changed is merely a few names in certain places.

[Kinetic]

I think Kinetic is outguessing the mod too much on the balanced factional distribution among the races, but the even race distribution seems like a very viable assumption.

The reason for a balanced distribution is so that no race combines well with any faction. There is room for exceptions, but this assumption should be viewed as the rule with any changes being made as the exceptions.

One thing to note though, is that it is extremely doubtful that there is any faction with more than one of the same race. I.E. there is only one shadow operative that is B5, and the rest are other races. This is ESPECIALLY true among factions with killing roles. If a faction could disregard their faction WC and win with an unfair advantage with the race WC, it would be unbalanced.

There could be some overlap, resulting in some races not being represented though (i.e. a shadow and a vorlon being within B5, thus centauri have no scum representation)

[Kinetic]

Also, DGB, confirm what the EF's WC is please.

[Natirasha]

If I may ask, can we have any other people with the "Anti-X" WinCons claim. I am a believer that there is two of each, leaving one Anti-Vorlon still out there.
Also, I prefer to think of myself as non-town, not anti-town, tyvm.

[veerus]

Hm.. interesting. Not very true to the story but balanced. I'm sorry you think I was trying to confuse everyone. I was merely trying to fit the setup to the story, but seeing your theory I can now see how you think the story is a red herring.

What of the survivor and anti-shadow/vorlon WC people.. how do they fit into the balance? If there are 3 survivors and 3 of each scum race operative, they have to only kill 6 and not 7. Or am I confusing the two WC's?

Also, what's your definition of "anti-town"? By my definition, Nat/hp/Mana are all anti-town.

Lastly, I don't think RG's posted role PM is a fake.. I just can't imagine a scenario where someone would want to loudly announce a fake claim on someone who wasn't under pressure at the time. Based on that I suppose I can buy into your theory of the other Centauri being anti-town. Though how do you distinguish that from Nat/hp/Mana?

[Kinetic]

Hm.. interesting. Not very true to the story but balanced. I'm sorry you think I was trying to confuse everyone. I was merely trying to fit the setup to the story, but seeing your theory I can now see how you think the story is a red herring.

I always knew you were a logical guy. I think a lot of the reason I thought you were so scummy was because you were going off so illogically. I tend to forget exactly how long it took me to figure out some of this stuff.

What of the survivor and anti-shadow/vorlon WC people.. how do they fit into the balance? If there are 3 survivors and 3 of each scum race operative, they have to only kill 6 and not 7. Or am I confusing the two WC's?

The faction WCs are going to be slightly imbalanced in that way because of several factors. First, it seems pretty reasonable to assume that scum, being the informed minority, are going to have the greatest imbalance. They have to kill about 12-15 people to win.

The anti-town (I am using this word too much, I suppose I'll work with the term 'non-town' when referring collectively to the anti-shadow/vorlon players), thus the 'non-town' are going to be slightly imbalanced as well, however in another way. Their Faction WC is the one that bothers me the most. However, since technically the town only need to kill at most 6 people to win, the 'non-town' only needing to kill 6, or even 5, to win makes a little sense. Additionally since they are such a small group (at most 3, possibly only 2), they all have powers to help them do this. Finally, there could be either 2 or 3 survivors, and I'm pretty sure there is an equal number of survivors as equal to each non-town faction.

I think I know where they are, but if you noticed I was very scarce on where that is in my big post. That is because I don't care enough to reveal them yet. As town, I effectively want to keep them alive to stop the non-town from foiling a town win. Thus, while I think I know where they are, it is effectively anti-town to help the non-town find them, so I'm trying hard not to help them.

Also, what's your definition of "anti-town"? By my definition, Nat/hp/Mana are all anti-town.

I was referring to them as anti-town as well, but that isn't

exactly

right either. They are anti-town, because they have aims that are against those of the town, but technically the town does not need to kill them to win, and we are no further to our own WC by killing them.

Effectively, they are very much like survivors, even if they technically don't need to survive to win. As long as they're useful, we can keep them around, but the scum have MUCH more to fear from them then the town does.

Lastly, I don't think RG's posted role PM is a fake.. I just can't imagine a scenario where someone would want to loudly announce a fake claim on someone who wasn't under pressure at the time. Based on that I suppose I can buy into your theory of the other Centauri being anti-town. Though how do you distinguish that from Nat/hp/Mana?

I feel very much the same way about the role PM.

The last Centauri is either scum or "non-town" if we believe RB's role pm as far as I'm concerned. If he is non-town though, that means there is three of each.

The reason for this is the directly opposing RACIAL factions.

If you look at my WCs, Earthforce and B5 are directly opposing each other, both have it in their WC that the other must die.

Centauri and Unalgined are this way, so are Narn and Minbari.

Additionally since the EF non-town and the B5 non-town have IDENTICAL abilities, this is why I believe the non-town that counters Nat is in Narn.

THUS if there is a non-town in Centauri or the Unaligned, there is one in the other.

SO if the other Centauri is non-town, there are three for each non-town faction, if not, there might be only two.

[Kinetic]

In any way, a lynch of Theinternet is by far our best play. If he is anti-town, its not a total loss, but if he's scum its a HUGE gain.

[The Internet]

Well, I guess all I can say in my defense is don't outguess the mod, and this is a tar game. I'd also like to raise the theory that all of the anti-x are actually members of one of the mafias using safeclaims. Just a possibility, remember there are 3 of them and 3 of each mafia.

[Kinetic]

Well, I guess all I can say in my defense is don't outguess the mod, and this is a tar game. I'd also like to raise the theory that all of the anti-x are actually members of one of the mafias using safeclaims. Just a possibility, remember there are 3 of them and 3 of each mafia.

Sure that's absolutely possible. And if one of the claimed cops doesn't die (seeing as they effectively claimed opposite factions) I'd eat my hat. And even if its one of the scum factions claiming different sides of the same coin, I'm willing to wait a day to find 3 scum. Again, if effectively those are all Vorlons or all Shadows, or even a mix, it would be absolutely bad for the other faction not to immediately NK the other.

But even by your theory, it makes 0 sense for ManaKu and hp to effectively protect them with their claims.

The fact that you are SO nonchalant about it, and don't even have any defense makes me think you know you're cooked and you don't want to give away any of your partners.

[forbiddanlight]

Hmm...well, I see the logic for

Unvote, vote: The Internet

.

What I don't understand is why he says 3 of each mafia. Where did this number come from? This is another thing that I feel implicates him.

[pacman281292]

OMG, this is becoming REALLY confusing.
I'm seriously needing to make a whole recheck of the last pages. Please wait.

[armlx]

Much rather lynch Veerus. I find his statement about B5 being obv town to be disconcerting

I'd probably even rather lynch KoC then work on the speculation that the scum/anti-town groups are evenly distributed among the secondary WC's.

[cr3t1n]

Though how do you distinguish that from Nat/hp/Mana?

by there play instead of flaver?

malt is still mafier

i cud voet 4 KoC bcuz hes lurkin

im going 2 reed the case on veerus

[cr3t1n]

i fink veerus is rong about anti-shodow meening vorlon and stuff
i dont fink hes scumm tho
hes just lookin at flaver 2 much

evry1 voeting him bcuz of that n who r suspishus of nat/hp/mana bcuz of there claims r dumb

Its true they are not the best townies. In fact, everything they do we're going to have to watch, but in the end, they are not scum. Lynching them will bring us no closer to winning the game. It won't give us any information if the town agrees to lynch them and it won't lessen the number of scum.

w00t
finaly sumthing smart
evry1 shud listen 2 this

they cant win if ANY of the mafier factions win first
so they want 2 lynch scum not innocents

evry1 shud stop being dum n scumhunt insted of tryin 2 get claims n outgess the mod

[armlx]

I'm deliberately ignoring and not reading the above 2 posts. Just saying, post in English.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd probably even rather lynch KoC then work on the speculation that the scum/anti-town groups are evenly distributed among the secondary WC's.

My vote is part that but more because of Internet's latest post claiming three mafia in each :S. That's out of NOWHERE.

[armlx]

Wow, missed that.

That's good enough to bump him over KoC.

[armlx]

EBWODP: That's all assuming KoC isn't just going to lurk out of a claim now that he is back.

[veerus]

I'd probably even rather lynch KoC then work on the speculation that the scum/anti-town groups are evenly distributed among the secondary WC's.

My vote is part that but more because of Internet's latest post claiming three mafia in each :S. That's out of NOWHERE.

It's not out of nowhere. It was in Kinetic's big reveal post at the bottom of the previous page.

Also, armlx, I find it really suspicious that you ignore cr3t1n's posts. They're not easy to read, true, but he brings up good points in them sometimes. In this last series of posts, he said that while I concentrate too much on the flavor/theme, he does not find me scummy. Malt is still scummier. He also disagrees with my argument that anti-x factions are pro-y factions and thus scum.

In fact, after a quick review of armlx's posts, it seems that he's been coasting along. Ignoring cr3t1n's posts is just the latest point of evidence. Armlx has made numerous posts in this thread, yet his contributions have been minimal as I counted less than five posts where the post length was longer than 3 lines/sentences. He seems to latch on to the latest "best" lynch suspect with barely an explanation.

FOS: armlx

With that said, I would be ok with a KOC lynch since he's by all accounts back but not posting in the thread knowing that the deadline is hours away.

[armlx]

And Veerus makes an OMGUS based on completely null logic, then the classic "I'd be fine with X tho".

1st, do you honestly want to put up with cr3t1n this game? P sure the answer is no.

2nd, show me where my posts haven't gotten the point across, and then you cna bitch about them being short.

[veerus]

If it was a true OMGUS, I would've voted for you and tried to make a case out of it. I was just pointing out an observation for people to make their own conclusions out of. To me, you look like you're coasting. It is what it is. Is it scummy? Not neccesarily, but the FOS will remind me to keep an eye on you for later.

1st, do you honestly want to put up with cr3t1n this game? P sure the answer is no.

I won't lie, I cringe when I see his posts, but he was allowed to replace in by the mod so his words are worth about as much as any one else's.

[armlx]

Except its so close to deadline you know you won't get away with said vote, so your first point fails.

I won't lie, I cringe when I see his posts, but he was allowed to replace in by the mod so his words are worth about as much as any one else's.

That's a faulty assumption.

[Kinetic]

Currently KoC has the most votes. I will (reluctantly) switch if he is decided as the lynch, but I much prefer theinternet.

Either way, we need to make a decision pronto. If you're not voting for one of the two you're not helping.

So vote for one of them or give some good excuse to no lynch. I don't think we have time to vote anyone else anymore.