Xyl's Relative Chaos - Game over!

[Crazy]

/confirm

What's with the vote count?

[Crazy]

Hmm, personally I don't see the big deal about tubby. He essentially said the same thing Korts said, except a little more specifically.

Personally, I don't think it means anything. I mean, can you imagine Xyl making it so scum could get screwed over by a votecount? I mean, how does that really add anything to the game? What purpose would Xyl have in putting in a mechanic that draws from the spirit of mafia?

[Crazy]

@ korts i was goin to vote but i was trying to make my choice carefully

vote:korts

why he basically said the same thing i did only a lil more ambiguously then jump all over me and i thought i was honestly helping but hey if i have to get lynched to tell the town who the true scum are so be it, someone has to get lynched day one might as well be me

I notice tubby doesn't bring this up till Crazy says something of the same nature.
That is following if anything and

I don't like he how he gets all worked up over a vote.

unvote: SSK
vote: Tubby

Well, it might be something that he took my argument, but I'm not sure I see it as a scum-tell. Any reason why you think it as so?

You might call setup speculation such as he did anti-town, but that has

never

been a scum-tell.

And I don't believe Appeal to Emotion or "getting worked up over a vote" is a scum-tell either. I mean, none of you have ever seen a worked up newbie before?

So, anyone want to convince me why tubby is a good wagon?

[Crazy]

Look, I couldn't care less about defending tubby. I haven't seen anything from him that stamps me as

either

town or scum. I just want to make a note that the wagon on him is complete crap, and in my opinion, scummy.

Dicouraging use of a common scum tactic by pressuring or even lynching is, in my opinion, entirely valid. And the particular setup speculation on tubby's part served scum motives, since it could easily have outed power roles by them either confirming or denying the theory's validity.

Okay, first, it's posts like this that really irk me... when people sacrifice finding scum in order to do what's "fair." Now I'm not going to go around lynching people that I don't see as particularly scummy just to help the meta of mafia so people stop using Appeals to Emotion. Seriously, I'm playing this game to win, not to be fair and lynch people because they did something that should be discouraged in a mafia game.

Okay, now, do you really think

tubby

was trying to out some power roles? He has 110 game posts; he's pretty much a newbie. Now I know, when I was first scum, I didn't do anything except try to look pro-town. Do you really think tubby is capable of doing some elaborate scum scheme like that? Even if he was scum, I doubt that he had malicious motives there. Do you think he did have some, or are you just the Supreme Judge of mafia; kill everyone that doesn't act the way they're supposed to in order to send a message?

Why are you defending him? I already called him out for following you and now you are defending him? I don't care about newbie or not newbie. He didn't say anything till you made the point for him. Then he uses what he said as his own idea. That is scummy.

I don't see it as particularly "fair" that he did that... but I don't see why scum are more likely to do that than town. Explain, please.

tubby turning on Crazy seems like distancing, to be honest. It was too quick and without consideration, although he does throw in the idea of Crazy-scum leading a witchhunt against SpyreX/me in the event of tubby-town being lynched. Thing is, newbie scum don't always know measure, in my limited experience with them. They might start bussing too hard, too early, or buddying up too obviously. For now, I believe tubby's distancing, because he believes himself to be dangerously close to lynching as opposed to slightly closer than others.

Thanks, I'm often the Day 1 lynchee's "scum-partner."

Surely you can remember Open 87 (Oman), and Open 94 (Megatheory), farside.

[Crazy]

no i was tryin to make a case were i had no ground to stay on and its the only thing i could come up with... and i really diddn't see why crazy was defending me when all the veterans of the site seem so comfortable with lynching me,, i thought could they all be scum??? or did i screw this up that badd?? or is crazy setting me up and exploiting my noobness and setting up korts and spyrex??

Even if you turned up town, that wouldn't set me as town and korts/spyre/farside as scum. Being town =/= being right, and vice versa. So really, that wouldn't prove anything... so no, I'm not doing that.

my last post and vote for crazy was simply trying to save my own skin everyone here has been pretty closed lip and if i tried to make to big of a case agianst korts its omgus.

Appeal to people's logic, not emotion. Focus more on finding scum rather than saving your own skin. If all you focus on is the latter, then everyone will see you as scum because that's what

scum

care about.

[Crazy]

Anyone believe that Korts really

was

making a case against tubby just to gauge reactions? I don't. Saying "Nevermind about all that stuff I was doing; I didn't really mean it" is a scum-tell in my book.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Vote: Korts

[Crazy]

Oh, about this fake post-restriction stuff; I don't see it as bad in any way.

Animorph didn't start posting in his restriction until his 3rd post, clearly showing he wasn't serious about it to begin with. Thus, it was a joke.

As for Vi, I don't see why she would drop it if she was deliberately faking it. I mean, it doesn't help the scum and it doesn't make her appear pro-town. What else is it that scum want? So why would she drop it?

Okay, now you're all screaming WIFOM, so let me push that thought out of your head. How often do you see scum doing something that appears scummy just to look pro-town? It's very elaborate; I've never seen it. I doubt that

you

have.

[Crazy]

Post 107 - Crazy: Woah, the "he's a newbie" defense. Also, you may do certain things as scum, but that doesn't mean everyone does the same. Can he not be newbie scum?

Yes, but he can't be scum

because

he's a newbie.

Post 166 - Crazy: I think it's perfectly valid. Why don't you?

Post 144 seems like an easy way to get off a bandwagon that's turning the opposite direction.

Post 167 - Crazy: This is blatant WIFOM. Scum could totally do something scummy so people claim it's too scummy to be scum.

Not "too scummy to be scum" but "too scummy to be scum because of said scummy thing." The answer is to always interpret things like that as a null-tell... then they can never be WIFOM.

Besides, even if it was a town-tell, I would guess that most people wouldn't do something like that. I have

never

seen someone deliberately act scummy just to appear townie. Have you?

You sure you aren't defending?

I'm not saying tubby is town, just saying the cases on him are crap. I suppose you could say that makes him more likely to be town, but meh.

I'm having some problems with this. Why did you bring this up?

Because it's funny how often people say that.

Quotes please.

Post 144.

I see Tubby's as newb who I have yet to feel either scum or town. I know newbs make errors and some he is making is scummy. However for someone to complain about the lack of anything going on and saying nothing at all is someone I feel isn't paying attention and trying to look like they are participating which is extra super scummy in my book.

Your earlier posts didn't give me that impression.

I know you explained how there's scum motivation before. My point is, there's also motivation for town, especially newb town, considering the town doesn't have any information to start with, and newb townies in particular tend to grab at every piece of information they can get.

In addition, given tubby's claim of never playing so seriously before, I'm having doubts as to whether he'd think such a scum gambit through in his first post.

Oh, wow, now that you've changed sides I agree with everything you say. This is insane.

I don't like how DGB says that tubby is "scum breaking down" but then she used that same argument against me in Traitor Mafia... and she was town, so I can't interpret that as a scum-tell really.

I still see the faking post restrictions as just joking, so I can't push those past a null-tell. I don't see why they're scummy unless if they're taken through the whole game or something.

[Crazy]

Crazy 240 wrote:
Yes, but he can't be scum because he's a newbie.

Syntax failure ahoy!

Oops. What I meant was... "Being a newbie does not make him scum."

I did as someone in this game knows

Okay, well, you're an odd case, then.

Sorry for being so quiet, RL has been a bitch lately

I'm also hella confused with this whole game so far, I guess I should have expected that though with the name of relative chaos.

And seeing as its supposed to be chaotic:

unvote, vote tubby

Can we kill you? I mean, bandwagoning for no reason?

. Not necessarily. Town and scum alike make crap cases, so that doesn't really affect the likelihood that tubby is scum or town.

Slightly, actually... but that margin is so small that it's not worth getting into, which is why I said "meh" at the end of that quote.

i lolled so hard when i read this...so let's get this straight you were pressuring tubby for reactions? i usually only see scum do this type of thing in which they afterwards say they did it "for reactions". looking for reactions can pretty much be an excuse for anything. ex- me:hey i'm scum vote: me.
player 2: omg he's scum vote: him
me: HA ONLY SCUM WOULD JOIN THAT WAGON SINCE THEY KNOW IM REALLY TOWN I WAS LOOKING FOR REACTIONS VOTE: YOU!!

You're awesome, btw.

[Crazy]

Dang, I realize that post is going to look confusing for someone not knowing what I'm talking about. Let me clarify:

ZazieR was talking about doing something that looks scummy in order to look more town.

Dahill's first quote was about my quote where I was commenting about how tubby was being attacked by crap cases which might make him slightly more likely to be town, but meh...

Dahill's second quote was about Korts' change-of-plan.

[Crazy]

Posting this message in Open 95 and Relative Chaos.

Sorry for the inactivity; I thought I'd get caught up tonight, but at this point it's almost 1 a.m. and I am leaving for a trip tomorrow. Unfortunately:

V/LA until Thursday

I still want to be in this game; don't replace me please.