Choose Carefully Mafia: (Game Over)

[Save The Dragons]

it's logical to assume that he must have been named to you in your role.

How can you be so sure about what he said that allows you to think he must have armlx in his PM? You seriously think he couldn't

a) be making shit up
b) have misread something <===this is my pick right now.
c) have received information pre game from the mod
d) have picked up a meta tell
e) be reading too much into BM's mention of armlx's name.

This is before I actually claimed what my role was, but I figured Neighbor is a relatively vanilla role that others might has as well. What would I have misread? You have the same info about someone in your own role PM that should make you suspicious of them (even if you are scum, but especially if you are town).

Uh...this statement is true regardless of my role. I don't know yours, so I don't know what exactly why you're talking about armlx. I could assume that you were a neighbor, but that doesn't mean I should, and neither should Sineish.

It sounds like you were pushing me to reveal myself here. Not cool - I was waiting for armlx to commit either way to whether he has me named in his role PM and whether I was described as unconfirmed.

Once again, I don't know what you know.

You were suspicious of armlx.
I was saying that I would not be if you just said nothing.
I was not pushing you to reveal because I had no idea what you had on armlx. Maybe I could have guessed that you had the same role I did, but again, that doesn't mean that I should, or that I did.

This is your only communication with your mason partner before he claimed.

And this is important...why? I don't see why I need to be in direct contact with my partner all the time...I can talk to him at night.

What?? This really bothers me. How could it possibly say his buddy was confirmed? You have the same role info as me and armlx. It just sounds like you were trying too hard to get Santos nailed.

Wow, it's so interesting that if you take things out of context and make no attempt to understand them, they look scummy!

Of course I didn't think that his role pm said that. My point is that Santos was trying to use that AGAINST YOU GUYS. He was attacking you based on information he should have known was FALSE. That is bad.

This. Even if a partner does come out, I'm sold.

Confirm vote: Santos

die scum die.

Huh? Again, just reads of trying too hard.

So if I think someone is scum, after giving evidence to this fact, I can't just abreviate my clearly stated beliefs?

How do you know this? Are you sure scum can be both Neighbor and another role name? Only if you were scum yourself could you know this.

Wait, what the heck? What does this even mean?

All I said was that someone could be neighbor and scum, which is not a belief that is exclusive to myself.

And yet, while you accuse Santos of obfuscating armlx's and my own role claim, you are guilty of doing similar things.

Um, not really. You took what I said and twisted it. All I was doing was accusing him of attacking you.

When were you planning to reveal this info, if at all? Did you think it was anti-town to reveal it?

When it became relevent.

[CarnCarn]

Wait, what the heck? What does this even mean?

All I said was that someone could be neighbor and scum, which is not a belief that is exclusive to myself.

Is there a difference between being a Neighbor and being able to night talk with someone? Can you actually be a

N

eighbor AND a scum role?

[armlx]

Is there a difference between being a Neighbor and being able to night talk with someone? Can you actually be a Neighbor AND a scum role?

I see no reason why not.

[CarnCarn]

I guess, but that basically amounts to giving scum a safeclaim. Not that that is anything strange in itself, but, for some reason I doubt it would be given that way.

I really don't think Santos is scum because his claim was the actual role name (capitalized N, spelled exactly the way it is in my own role), not like oEJo, who not only only choose not to capitalize, but also to use a different spelling. Even if he didn't think that is the way it should be spelled, why would he use something different from what the mod gave? Unless he didn't realize that Neighbor is a role name claim, and not just an ability.

I don't think scum would know the role name of their mason partner; it just seems unfair. More likely, the scum are just latching on to the "neighbor" term and trying to subtly pass it off as their own role name.

[armlx]

I guess, but that basically amounts to giving scum a safeclaim. Not that that is anything strange in itself, but, for some reason I doubt it would be given that way.

I mean, there's a reason there's no alignment confirmation.

[Save The Dragons]

Wait...look, CarnCarn.

I would be a complete idiot to fakeclaim neighbor.

Are you accusing me of fakeclaiming neighbor as scum? Because there's absolutely no reason why a neighbor couldn't be scum.

Even if I were scum, I would not lie about this because it's a null tell. I've seen scum masons before. I've been a scum mason before. It happens in games.

Scum also can't communicate before day, so they wouldn't really know to do a neighbor ploy, especially spontaneously during the day.

Do not treat the neighbors as cleared. If you've noticed, we've been discussing scenarios where the neighbors are potentially scum (in fact, I think you used that in your argument against me).

So...what exactly are you getting at?

[Moses le fou]

I guess, but that basically amounts to giving scum a safeclaim. Not that that is anything strange in itself, but, for some reason I doubt it would be given that way.

I really don't think Santos is scum because his claim was the actual role name (capitalized N, spelled exactly the way it is in my own role), not like oEJo, who not only only choose not to capitalize, but also to use a different spelling. Even if he didn't think that is the way it should be spelled, why would he use something different from what the mod gave? Unless he didn't realize that Neighbor is a role name claim, and not just an ability.

I don't think scum would know the role name of their mason partner; it just seems unfair. More likely, the scum are just latching on to the "neighbor" term and trying to subtly pass it off as their own role name.

Remember way back at the beginning of the thread when you expressed "mild suspicion" towards armlx because, as your neighbor (neighbour, whatever), he was your unconfirmed mason? Or remember all those places where we discussed the various formats in which mafia could be allotted amongst the neighbors? Why on earth would you suddenly suspect that neighbors can't be scum?

And don't forget, a scummy neighbor almost definitely does not know the alignment of his neighbor. Theoretically, scum-neighbor could just as likely be masoned with opposing scum as town.

[Battle Mage]

I guess, but that basically amounts to giving scum a safeclaim. Not that that is anything strange in itself, but, for some reason I doubt it would be given that way.

I really don't think Santos is scum because his claim was the actual role name (capitalized N, spelled exactly the way it is in my own role), not like oEJo, who not only only choose not to capitalize, but also to use a different spelling. Even if he didn't think that is the way it should be spelled, why would he use something different from what the mod gave? Unless he didn't realize that Neighbor is a role name claim, and not just an ability.

I don't think scum would know the role name of their mason partner; it just seems unfair. More likely, the scum are just latching on to the "neighbor" term and trying to subtly pass it off as their own role name.

umm, surely if their role is 'Mafia Neighbor' then the fact the Neighbor is capitalised and spelt incorrectly shouldn't matter.

BM

[CarnCarn]

if their role is 'Mafia Neighbor' then the fact the Neighbor is capitalised and spelt incorrectly shouldn't matter.

Yeah... that's possible. I reread my own role again, and armlx's comments about night actions (may or may not have them). Assume a protown role with night actions. Would they be called a Neighbor? Sure, they are neighbor to someone else, but I don't think their role would be called a Neighbor. Mafia Neighbor is certainly a possibility, though, but I guess we'll find out for sure in due course.
Anyway, all of this means that all of you guys are right, for now.
I'm gonna

Unvote: Save The Dragons

until we hear from Socio about why he thinks STD is scum.

[Battle Mage]

This setup discussion is just going way over my head. We need to either lynch someone who hasnt claimed neighbour, or go through every single neighbour until they are all dead.

BM

[CarnCarn]

We need to either lynch someone who hasnt claimed neighbour, or go through every single neighbour until they are all dead.

Well, we've only got 1 person who has actually claimed Neighbor as a role (Santos). We've got a lot of neighbors available for lynch, though. I do like the idea of lynching neighbors first (since I think there is some type of symmetry among these groups, and, knowing my own alignment, I think there is a higher chance of lynching scum than if we just pick from the non-neighbor pool).

[Battle Mage]

knowing your own alignment?
How do you figure?

BM

[CarnCarn]

armlx has explained this a bit earlier. I figure half of the neighbor pool is scum in some way or other (the specific pairings are of course unknown). So, I think 3/6 (50%) are scum. Of the other 10 in the non-neighbor pool, I assume, with 2 3-man scum teams, this leaves 4 scum (plus any neutrals, but lets ignore for now; neutrals could also be substituted into the neighbor pool, so it really doesn't make a big difference for this argument). The non-neighbor pool is thus only 40% scum. And, while I know this next part is WIFOM, given my own alignment, I know the actual chances of lynching scum from the neighbor pool are more likely 3/5 (60%). I think the chances can be improved even further with a close analysis of peoples' posts, etc.
Anyway, I gotta run now. Will post more later.

[Battle Mage]

you think this game is comprised of more than 40% scum?

BM

[CarnCarn]

6/16 <0.40

[CarnCarn]

Edit: the non neighbor pool should only have 3/10 (30%), sorry.

[ZazieR]

I don't like all this attention regarding the neighbours. Santos acts scummy. oEJo has the strangest argument regarding his vote. But all the other neighbours are getting the attention of being a neighbour. I don't think from what I've seen this game that they deserve it. I think I need to check those players who are putting a lot of attention at the neighbours.

[Santos]

Unvote: whoever

Unvote: Rope

Vote: Save the Dragons

Vote: Gun

I

really

like how someone finally compiled some evidence against this guy; not to mention it makes loads of sense now that he was leading the town to get me lynched.

[Santos]

Is 'Neighbor' spelled differently in other parts of the world? Why 'Neighbour'?

[CarnCarn]

Why 'Neighbour'?

It's the Queen English, my dear.

[Battle Mage]

Why 'Neighbour'?

It's the Queen English, my dear.

This is correct. Even the Australians can get it right-so why not you??

BM

[Santos]

Sorry, I'm English. :p

[armlx]

Scum also can't communicate before day, so they wouldn't really know to do a neighbor ploy, especially spontaneously during the day.

You sure of that?

And CC, there's no way there's an odd number of scum in the neighbor pool with an even number of major scum groups (unbalanced much?), and I explained why there can't be 2 scum from the same group in the neighbors a long time ago. So its actually most likely 2/6 or 33%.

[CarnCarn]

D'oh. Yeah, odd number doesn't make sense. armlx is correct. Unless you want to throw in a neutral (2 mafia, 1 neutral) into the neighbor pool, which would make sense.

[Battle Mage]

Sorry, I'm English. :p

rofl. LaL!

BM