Mini Normal 2267 | Music Hits of 2010-2014 | GAME OVER

[angela]

The Friendly Neighbor message should be a confirmation that Kitty is Town and I suggest you ask the Mod angela. There should be no ambiguity there.

unable to gain any formatting clarity regarding friendly neighbour message vs mailman message

so i either received a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

or a mailman message made to look like a friendly neighbour message

as far as i can tell

[Andresvmb]

The Friendly Neighbor message should be a confirmation that Kitty is Town and I suggest you ask the Mod angela. There should be no ambiguity there.

unable to gain any formatting clarity regarding friendly neighbour message vs mailman message

so i either received a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

or a mailman message made to look like a friendly neighbour message

as far as i can tell

No this isn’t possible. Like there really isn’t any room for ambiguity here and this is nonsensical.

The message you receive when you’re the recipient of a message from a Friendly Neighbor comes from the Moderator, and it confirms Kitty as Town. If the moderator simply passed on a message, but it was clear in the message that it was not authored by the moderator, then it is nothing more than a message. This really shouldn’t be hard. One is a confirmation and assuming the game isn’t bastard (which I know it isn’t since this is the Normal queue), then you should know for a fact if Kitty is Town or not. You should easily be able to confirm. At the very least, you should be able to ask if the message that you received counts as Mod communication.

[Scorpious]

Do we know if you can get 2 messages in one night?

pedit-Angela already said the message confirmed Kitty as town. How is there even still a question about it?

[Andresvmb]

Messages that come from the Moderator cannot be lies. So if the message is coming from the Moderator, then it is true. If the message is the result of a night action and contains content that makes it seem like Kitty is a Friendly Neighbor when they aren’t one, then that’s a Scum claim, and you should be able to tell.

[angela]

The Friendly Neighbor message should be a confirmation that Kitty is Town and I suggest you ask the Mod angela. There should be no ambiguity there.

unable to gain any formatting clarity regarding friendly neighbour message vs mailman message

so i either received a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

or a mailman message made to look like a friendly neighbour message

as far as i can tell

No this isn’t possible. Like there really isn’t any room for ambiguity here and this is nonsensical.

The message you receive when you’re the recipient of a message from a Friendly Neighbor comes from the Moderator, and it confirms Kitty as Town. If the moderator simply passed on a message, but it was clear in the message that it was not authored by the moderator, then it is nothing more than a message. This really shouldn’t be hard. One is a confirmation and assuming the game isn’t bastard (which I know it isn’t since this is the Normal queue), then you should know for a fact if Kitty is Town or not. You should easily be able to confirm. At the very least, you should be able to ask if the message that you received counts as Mod communication.

the message appears to be a friendly neighbour message, but i have no way of determining whether or not a mailman could have submitted that message in order to make me think that, and i am unable to gain further clarity

[Andresvmb]

The Friendly Neighbor message should be a confirmation that Kitty is Town and I suggest you ask the Mod angela. There should be no ambiguity there.

unable to gain any formatting clarity regarding friendly neighbour message vs mailman message

so i either received a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

or a mailman message made to look like a friendly neighbour message

as far as i can tell

No this isn’t possible. Like there really isn’t any room for ambiguity here and this is nonsensical.

The message you receive when you’re the recipient of a message from a Friendly Neighbor comes from the Moderator, and it confirms Kitty as Town. If the moderator simply passed on a message, but it was clear in the message that it was not authored by the moderator, then it is nothing more than a message. This really shouldn’t be hard. One is a confirmation and assuming the game isn’t bastard (which I know it isn’t since this is the Normal queue), then you should know for a fact if Kitty is Town or not. You should easily be able to confirm. At the very least, you should be able to ask if the message that you received counts as Mod communication.

the message appears to be a friendly neighbour message, but i have no way of determining whether or not a mailman could have submitted that message in order to make me think that, and i am unable to gain further clarity

You’re asking the wrong question and I’m really beginning to doubt this whole thing.

How can you not gain further clarity? Let me ask the Mod one second.

[angela]

The Friendly Neighbor message should be a confirmation that Kitty is Town and I suggest you ask the Mod angela. There should be no ambiguity there.

unable to gain any formatting clarity regarding friendly neighbour message vs mailman message

so i either received a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

or a mailman message made to look like a friendly neighbour message

as far as i can tell

No this isn’t possible. Like there really isn’t any room for ambiguity here and this is nonsensical.

The message you receive when you’re the recipient of a message from a Friendly Neighbor comes from the Moderator, and it confirms Kitty as Town. If the moderator simply passed on a message, but it was clear in the message that it was not authored by the moderator, then it is nothing more than a message. This really shouldn’t be hard. One is a confirmation and assuming the game isn’t bastard (which I know it isn’t since this is the Normal queue), then you should know for a fact if Kitty is Town or not. You should easily be able to confirm. At the very least, you should be able to ask if the message that you received counts as Mod communication.

the message appears to be a friendly neighbour message, but i have no way of determining whether or not a mailman could have submitted that message in order to make me think that, and i am unable to gain further clarity

You’re asking the wrong question and I’m really beginning to doubt this whole thing.

How can you not gain further clarity? Let me ask the Mod one second.

i mean, it's possible i am asking the wrong question, but i do not know what the right question would be in that case

do not understand why that would make you doubt anything though as i have no prior experience with the role and the formatting of what the messages received from each look like isn't on the wiki or anything

on the wiki both say the roles send a message

and i do not know if a mailman would be able to make that message appear to be a friendly neighbour message

[Scorpious]

like what do you think the message might say

based on the information you currently know?

I have no idea..

Yes or no. Did it explicitly indicate Kitty as town?

yes it did

that's what a friendly neighbour message is

Why would I send a message saying Kitty is town?

[Andresvmb]

Like this sounds like bullshit. There are certain things that aren’t supposed to be confusing. If there’s a real Friendly Neighbor in the setup, you should absolutely be able to tell if the message you received was not a communication from a different player but came from the Mod. This isn’t supposed to trip you in that way. If the message is formatted a certain way, I still think the Moderator would start the communication with: “You received the following message from [blank]”. Otherwise, this just leads to an element that might be perceived as bastard, and I don’t think that’s ever the intention.

[Andresvmb]

Ask the Mod if the communication came directly from them. Like if they’re the author of the information.

[MalcolmTucker]

The Friendly Neighbor message should be a confirmation that Kitty is Town and I suggest you ask the Mod angela. There should be no ambiguity there.

unable to gain any formatting clarity regarding friendly neighbour message vs mailman message

so i either received a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

or a mailman message made to look like a friendly neighbour message

as far as i can tell

No this isn’t possible. Like there really isn’t any room for ambiguity here and this is nonsensical.

The message you receive when you’re the recipient of a message from a Friendly Neighbor comes from the Moderator, and it confirms Kitty as Town. If the moderator simply passed on a message, but it was clear in the message that it was not authored by the moderator, then it is nothing more than a message. This really shouldn’t be hard. One is a confirmation and assuming the game isn’t bastard (which I know it isn’t since this is the Normal queue), then you should know for a fact if Kitty is Town or not. You should easily be able to confirm. At the very least, you should be able to ask if the message that you received counts as Mod communication.

the message appears to be a friendly neighbour message, but i have no way of determining whether or not a mailman could have submitted that message in order to make me think that, and i am unable to gain further clarity

So basically there is no confirmation with the message that Kitty is actually town? Why are you so so certain then?

[Andresvmb]

This is the sort of question that should get a definitive answer. That cannot be ambiguous.

[angela]

like what do you think the message might say

based on the information you currently know?

I have no idea..

Yes or no. Did it explicitly indicate Kitty as town?

yes it did

that's what a friendly neighbour message is

Why would I send a message saying Kitty is town?

i mean,

i do not think you did

but purpose of mailman message saying kittytacky is town would be to be confirmed as friendly neighbour

which seems like this would be an odd time in the game for that anyway,

and even without confirmation of there being any difference i would lean towards kittytacky being a friendly neighbour

but would be nice to know and not have worry at back of mind

[Scorpious]

like what do you think the message might say

based on the information you currently know?

I have no idea..

Yes or no. Did it explicitly indicate Kitty as town?

yes it did

that's what a friendly neighbour message is

I'm only quoting this again because Angela seems to know exactly how it works based on this response.

[angela]

Like this sounds like bullshit. There are certain things that aren’t supposed to be confusing. If there’s a real Friendly Neighbor in the setup, you should absolutely be able to tell if the message you received was not a communication from a different player but came from the Mod. This isn’t supposed to trip you in that way. If the message is formatted a certain way, I still think the Moderator would start the communication with: “You received the following message from [blank]”. Otherwise, this just leads to an element that might be perceived as bastard, and I don’t think that’s ever the intention.

there is no indication of sender, simply a message that appears to be a friendly neighbour message

[MalcolmTucker]

I have no idea what people expect from me. I said I'll be better day 2, and I tried.
I came to today with like 10 pages of text and 2 mentions of me, so I have to generate all my own thoughts.

So I did what I always do and look at day 1 wagons and I just wanted to look at why and when the not Mafia wagon formed, and I tried to pick out which votes I thought were bad.

But then new info comes to light so I of course chase that direction, I always said the info players bring to thr game day 2 is what drives the game and this is what I am reacting to.

My problem here is that you gave us little to go on D1 because you said it wasn't useful and now you're not really attempting to put any original info out there at all.

You seem to have been thrown off by the fact that there was lots of content once D2 started but is that not exactly what you wanted? Surely 10 pages on D2 is a goldmine for you if you're a player who does better after the first turn has passed? Your argument here seems to be that you basically expected the game to stand completely still on D2 in a way which allow you to make reads without any changing at all, but why would that happen when you acknowledge yourself info from night 1 is meant to fuel the game and move it forward?

For what it's worth, this was precisely my concern in post 1139 before the end of the first turn. You'd be able to coast through D1 without doing anything because you say it's not your style, but then if a head-to-head came up on D2 you'd be able to sheep a read on either side and move into D3 without us basically having a way to read you from either POV.

This was why I fundamentally viewed your D1 play as quite anti-town either way - like there just isn't much of a way for us to clear you from potentially being mafia right now because you've avoided contributing to the game in a way that is perfectly convenient for potential mafia. Like, if you are mafia, then this turn has gone to plan for you so far, and it'd make me wonder if you knew that might happen on D1 and were told by teammates you could plan ahead for it and avoid doing anything substantive.

None of this is meant personally or as an indictment against your style if that's how you want to play, and I'm no expert on the game so maybe I'm in the wrong here - it's just frustrating as a townie trying to solve the game when I genuinely warned about this possibility in D1.

[MalcolmTucker]

Like this sounds like bullshit. There are certain things that aren’t supposed to be confusing. If there’s a real Friendly Neighbor in the setup, you should absolutely be able to tell if the message you received was not a communication from a different player but came from the Mod. This isn’t supposed to trip you in that way. If the message is formatted a certain way, I still think the Moderator would start the communication with: “You received the following message from [blank]”. Otherwise, this just leads to an element that might be perceived as bastard, and I don’t think that’s ever the intention.

there is no indication of sender, simply a message that appears to be a friendly neighbour message

Are you explicitly told in the message that it has come from Kitty? If not, why were you the one who claimed on their behalf?

[Andresvmb]

Like this sounds like bullshit. There are certain things that aren’t supposed to be confusing. If there’s a real Friendly Neighbor in the setup, you should absolutely be able to tell if the message you received was not a communication from a different player but came from the Mod. This isn’t supposed to trip you in that way. If the message is formatted a certain way, I still think the Moderator would start the communication with: “You received the following message from [blank]”. Otherwise, this just leads to an element that might be perceived as bastard, and I don’t think that’s ever the intention.

there is no indication of sender, simply a message that appears to be a friendly neighbour message

Okay then it is and I won’t speculate otherwise.

I checked the Role PM of a Scum Multi-Tasking Mailman in another game I played, and in the Scum PT it clearly states for the Mailman that their message will clearly indicate that the message came from a player and not the Moderator. Therefore, I have no reason to doubt what you’re saying.

[Andresvmb]

I asked the Moderator a question basically on your behalf but I couldn’t get an answer because the Mod doesn’t want to interfere in the game in any way and does not want to give the impression that a role exists within the game. I’m paraphrasing, but that means I won’t get direct confirmation.

[angela]

Are you explicitly told in the message that it has come from Kitty? If not, why were you the one who claimed on their behalf?

because it appeared to be a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky and i only later became paranoid about it when thinking about mailman claim

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm confused on this player/moderator thing here. Surely the important detail is whether Angela knows Kitty sent them the message? And if they know that, and know it came from a friendly neighbour as well, where is the doubt emanating from?

[MalcolmTucker]

Are you explicitly told in the message that it has come from Kitty? If not, why were you the one who claimed on their behalf?

because it appeared to be a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky and i only later became paranoid about it when thinking about mailman claim

But what do you mean by "appeared" to be here? When the message showed up, were you informed both that it was from Kitty, and that it was from a friendly neighbour?

[angela]

I asked the Moderator a question basically on your behalf but I couldn’t get an answer because the Mod doesn’t want to interfere in the game in any way and does not want to give the impression that a role exists within the game. I’m paraphrasing, but that means I won’t get direct confirmation.

you were also unable to gain formatting clarity

and can kinda shrug if we lose to mafia!kittytacky based on mailman message we have no way of separating from a friendly neighbour message

[angela]

Are you explicitly told in the message that it has come from Kitty? If not, why were you the one who claimed on their behalf?

because it appeared to be a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky and i only later became paranoid about it when thinking about mailman claim

But what do you mean by "appeared" to be here? When the message showed up, were you informed both that it was from Kitty, and that it was from a friendly neighbour?

no, i mean it appeared to be a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

like as though kittytacky had targeted me with a friendly neighbour ability

which according to the wiki would mean i would be sent a message saying kittytacky was town

which is more or less what i received

however i have no way of determining whether or not a mailman could have sent me such a message

and if it would look any different if a mailman did

and was unable to gain further clarity, so

[Andresvmb]

I asked the Moderator a question basically on your behalf but I couldn’t get an answer because the Mod doesn’t want to interfere in the game in any way and does not want to give the impression that a role exists within the game. I’m paraphrasing, but that means I won’t get direct confirmation.

you were also unable to gain formatting clarity

and can kinda shrug if we lose to mafia!kittytacky based on mailman message we have no way of separating from a friendly neighbour message

Hard disagree. A message from another player that is mailman will indicate that the message came from another player. If there’s no such component, and it looks like the format from your Role PM, then it’s a Mod communication and confirmation that Kitty is a Friendly Neighbor.