FFVII Mafia: Over

[Jebus]

[quote ="MrBuddyLee"]Point by point:
1) His agenda is selfish. Scum are more likely to be self-oriented than town.
2) He doesn't care about the alignment of other people. Scum are less likely to be curious about alignments--they just want to survive.
3) He's defensive. Scum are more likely to be defensive than town--town go on the offensive to catch scum.

So what exactly is strong about Nat's defense, Jebus?[/quote]
1) Selfish agenda doesn't always mean scum. And coming out and saying this isn't really much of a tell of anything, there's a good chance it's how Nat would be in real life (face it, how many selfless people do you know? I can only think of one :/).
2) Where'd this conclusion come from?
3) I'm vanilla. You accuse me of being scum. I have two choices - don't defend myself, and get lynched, or defend myself and (according to your idea that defensiveness = scum), I'd still be lynched. Not a very good way to think. Mafia is a fun game, survival should be an incentive of every player - it's no fun to be lynched out of a game, scum or not. Scum just happen to have this as a priority over helping their side, as town would.

And sometimes, votes don't go through because there are voteblocking roles. There's no harm in adding an extra to making sure it goes through, especially close to deadline.

Never heard of a voteblocking role, sorry.


Again, too jumpy. Take no shortcuts in your reasoning.

[CarnCarn]

Never heard of a voteblocking role, sorry.

He's not making it up. See Mushroom Kingdom Mafia, where there are such roles. However, the mod in that game makes it clear that the visible votecount may be different from the real votecount. I'm sure we would have some similar warning if such roles were in play in this game, though.

[MrBuddyLee]

Point by point:
1) His agenda is selfish. Scum are more likely to be self-oriented than town.
2) He doesn't care about the alignment of other people. Scum are less likely to be curious about alignments--they just want to survive.
3) He's defensive. Scum are more likely to be defensive than town--town go on the offensive to catch scum.

So what exactly is strong about Nat's defense, Jebus?

1) Selfish agenda doesn't always mean scum. And coming out and saying this isn't really much of a tell of anything, there's a good chance it's how Nat would be in real life (face it, how many selfless people do you know? I can only think of one :/).
2) Where'd this conclusion come from?
3) I'm vanilla. You accuse me of being scum. I have two choices - don't defend myself, and get lynched, or defend myself and (according to your idea that defensiveness = scum), I'd still be lynched. Not a very good way to think. Mafia is a fun game, survival should be an incentive of every player - it's no fun to be lynched out of a game, scum or not. Scum just happen to have this as a priority over helping their side, as town would.

So you still haven't explained how this is a strong defense by Natirasha, or why you're defending Natirasha in the first place. You're also defending with silly generalities like "if i don't defend myself I get lynched" which is not the point. The point is, Natirasha is not on the offensive scumhunting or curious about alignments or team-oriented. If you want to meta that as his town playstyle, please make the case, but also let us know why you curiously feel the need to defend Natirasha.

[Cephrir]

And no, I didn't read the names besides ABR's of course before I wrote it.

So you didn't check to see whether, say,

you

were dead?

[Zakeri]

Well I didn't see my name when I looked. I was only looking for two names when I saw the results. ABR's and Mine. If I really had set up that ocnversation beforehand, though, I also would have been looking for Kloud's name as well.

[Riceballtail]

Well I didn't see my name when I looked. I was only looking for two names when I saw the results. ABR's and Mine. If I really had set up that ocnversation beforehand, though, I also would have been looking for Kloud's name as well.

VOTE:Zakeri

Only looking for yourself, to see if you survived; and the person you targeted last night, to see if your kill went through? Scummy enough for me.

[Zakeri]

I was scanning the Roles. I saw Cid and looked over, and sure enough, it was ABR. The others didn't matter because I didn't recognize any of them. I know that doesn't help my case now, but I'm offering it now because it explains why I did it.

The Roles are all listed in a Bright Green color, so I was drawn to them. Would have liked to see more red, of course.

[iamausername]

And how is "6 votes to 5" a "inevitable" lynch when it was, what, 12 votes to lynch, and when that was like 15 days before a lynch? What makes that "inevitable", exactally?

OK, inevitable was probably too strong a word. I'd say that was around the time it became clear that the CML wagon wasn't going to die down, and that there was a good chance that he would have been lynched.

Basically, I'm being attacked here because someone who got lynched and was scum was my #2 suspect for most of the day, and somehow everyone's knee-jerk reaction is "Yos must be distancing!".

It's not just this, it's the way you attacked him; never bringing forward any new points against him, just agreeing with what somone else said every so often. That's not the behaviour of someone trying to get the guy lynched, that's the behaviour of someone trying to look like they want him lynched.

3) I'm vanilla.

Why do people keep doing this?!

MBL, do you plan to explain why you accused me of being a Turk, or where you just throwing a whole bunch of names out at random to see who you could get a wagon going on?

[Yosarian2]

That's not the behaviour of someone trying to get the guy lynched

Um, I wasn't "trying to get him lynched". I was trying to get Albert lynched, since I was much more certain about his scumminess. He was my #2 suspect, though, and I was willing to lynch him, as I made clear yesterday.

Is there some part of this you're not getting? I'm not sure how many more ways I can explain it.

[TonyMontana]

Well I didn't see my name when I looked. I was only looking for two names when I saw the results. ABR's and Mine. If I really had set up that ocnversation beforehand, though, I also would have been looking for Kloud's name as well.

[face_palm]
So let me get this straight;
You were only looking for yourself and ABR.
You didn't notice kloud, which was directly below ABR's name.
You did however notice that yuffie was dead, and that she was a doctor.

IGMEOY, Sephiroth

[MrBuddyLee]

Well I didn't see my name when I looked.

I was only looking for two names when I saw the results. ABR's and Mine.

If I really had set up that ocnversation beforehand, though, I also would have been looking for Kloud's name as well.

This is incorrect/a lie, right? You spotted Yuffie=doc/rb.

Speaking of which, looking over Yuffie's role, it looks like the doctor had a good reason to target ABR. Likewise, We can't trust the result on CD because he was blocked.

[Zakeri]

Well I didn't see my name when I looked. I was only looking for two names when I saw the results. ABR's and Mine. If I really had set up that ocnversation beforehand, though, I also would have been looking for Kloud's name as well.

[face_palm]
So let me get this straight;
You were only looking for yourself and ABR.
You didn't notice kloud, which was directly below ABR's name.
You did however notice that yuffie was dead, and that she was a doctor.

IGMEOY, Sephiroth

Well I didn't see my name when I looked.

I was only looking for two names when I saw the results. ABR's and Mine.

If I really had set up that ocnversation beforehand, though, I also would have been looking for Kloud's name as well.

This is incorrect/a lie, right? You spotted Yuffie=doc/rb.

Speaking of which, looking over Yuffie's role, it looks like the doctor had a good reason to target ABR. Likewise, We can't trust the result on CD because he was blocked.

See 1281

I was scanning the Roles. I saw Cid and looked over, and sure enough, it was ABR. The others didn't matter because I didn't recognize any of them. I know that doesn't help my case now, but I'm offering it now because it explains why I did it.

The Roles are all listed in a Bright Green color, so I was drawn to them.

I didn't see my role, but I saw Cid (ABR) and then Yuffie (I didn't check her name) The others were vanilla.

[TonyMontana]

I still think it's weird that looking over who's gone isn't your first priority.

[Grimmy]

Never heard of a voteblocking role, sorry.

He's not making it up. See Mushroom Kingdom Mafia, where there are such roles. However, the mod in that game makes it clear that the visible votecount may be different from the real votecount. I'm sure we would have some similar warning if such roles were in play in this game, though.

I have seen it in another game as well. In a Batman game I played, one person had the power to buy someone else's vote and place it where they wanted it to.

[wolframnhart]

Who was that grimmy? I was in that game with you and unless i am reading the roles wrong i wasn't aware of that power.

[TonyMontana]

I have seen it in another game as well. In a Batman game I played, one person had the power to buy someone else's vote and place it where they wanted it to.

Was that a covert power?

[MrBuddyLee]

This side-thread's about vote buying's a distraction. The point is, I've seen it before and there's no harm in placing L+1 or L+2 votes.

Every vote on a wagon means something. The first few indicate intent to place someone in danger. L-1 indicates near-complete faith in guilt, because you're putting the lynchee at the mercy of both scum and any idiot town that stumbles by. The actual lynch vote is the clearest form of intent there is, and is occasionally used by scum to fake pro-town intent. An L+1 vote doesn't indicate jack shit, except possibly "yes, the town's decided, let's make sure it goes through, I don't have any inside info that that person's a townie".

[Grimmy]

Who was that grimmy? I was in that game with you and unless i am reading the roles wrong i wasn't aware of that power.

different batman game in a different site.
http://www.clockworkstorybook.net/forum ... =14&t=2543

it was a fun game

[Jebus]

The vote-buying role is a politician, which is different than a vote-blocking role. With the politician, someone doesn't get a vote, while someone else gets two. With a blocked vote, one vote would 'disappear'.

And yep, I agree that talking about this imaginary role that MBL brought up is pointless.

@iam - That wasn't a claim, it was a hypothetical situation.

@MBL - I defended Nat because he's not playing any different in this game than other games I've played/am playing in with him.

That, and the fact that most of your arguments about him seem weak :/

[MrBuddyLee]

@MBL - I defended Nat because he's not playing any different in this game than other games I've played/am playing in with him.

That, and the fact that most of your arguments about him seem weak :/

So he's a friend of yours? Or you already know his alignment and aren't worried about him killing you? Is he playing in a pro-town fashion? Can you point me to any one thing Natirasha has done in this game to help find scum?

[Natirasha]

@MBL - I defended Nat because he's not playing any different in this game than other games I've played/am playing in with him.

That, and the fact that most of your arguments about him seem weak :/

So he's a friend of yours? Or you already know his alignment and aren't worried about him killing you? Is he playing in a pro-town fashion? Can you point me to any one thing Natirasha has done in this game to help find scum?

Hi. I was against the ABR bandwagon and I was on the CML lynch.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah...odd as it is, I still don't entierly trust anyone who was convinced ABR was town yesterday, since I just don't understand how anyone could have possibly figured that out without inside information.

[Zakeri]

Yeah...odd as it is, I still don't entierly trust anyone who was convinced ABR was town yesterday, since I just don't understand how anyone could have possibly figured that out without inside information.

Well, there were people that were pushing for what looked like a mere policy lynch on someone who they admit could be town when someone who turned out to be scum was bandwagoned. Are you insulted that some people figured out some of those who pushed for the lynch against ABR are the ones trying to get us not to target the mafia?

[christiano drago]

Paint me in complete agreement with Yos right now on the ABR point. I think that anyone who honestly had no doubts that ABR was town from Day 2 they were acting with info the rest of us didn't have.

I would have taken my vote elsewhere if he had stuck by his guns with the Cid claim and not tried to smudge it, that's what really threw me in to disarray about him.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah...odd as it is, I still don't entierly trust anyone who was convinced ABR was town yesterday, since I just don't understand how anyone could have possibly figured that out without inside information.

Well, there were people that were pushing for what looked like a mere policy lynch on someone who they admit could be town when someone who turned out to be scum was bandwagoned.

You misunderstand.

I can understand people who yesterday thought Albert might be town, despite his behavior. Armlx's position, for example, seemed reasonable.

People who seemed to KNOW he was town yesterday, though, pretty much despite all the evidence of everything he did all game, are probably scum who were trying to look good.

This is the second time, by the way, you've vaugly mumbled about "people who wanted a policy lynch", and yet, even though I called you out on it, you still haven't explained who you mean or given a quote or anything. Who, exactally, are you atacking here, and when did they say whatever it is you're attacking them for? Your vaugeness is kind of disturbing.

Are you insulted that some people figured out some of those who pushed for the lynch against ABR are the ones trying to get us not to target the mafia?

That's an odd accusation. What makes you think I'm "insulted"?

And yeah, if you think someone jumped on the Albert bandwagon simply to distract from the CML wagon, that'd be a good reason to suspect them of being CML's scumbuddy. Since I was going after Albert long before there was a CML wagon, though, I'm not sure what makes you think that makes sense as an attack against me. If you are trying to attack me, that is; the question is so obliquely worded, I'm not even sure if you are or not.