Porkens wrote:I'm here. I'm actively lurking.
No prod necessary.
Dahil1, I'll get you your answers v. soon, I promise.
Hey, guess what. We can add 'active lurking' to your list!
Porkens: First he was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason. Secondly, he immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role. Thirdly, he fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town and fourthly he pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'. Fifthly, he admits to be actively lurking.
Porkens wrote:Gah, I have to retype this, I just deleted it.
I put my vote on Dahil1 with no specific reactions in mind. It was more of a "let's see what this does." kind of thing.
Dahil1, the reason I choose you was because you weren't really involved in any of the major discussions and hadn't had any pressure on you so far.
And this bit did not do anything at all to make me delete point 4 off my list.
4 or 5 main points:
1. SpyreX's case on Fleur
2. SpyreX's claim of Vig.
3. Sirdinalot's case on me
4. The "REAL" case on Gorrad
5. Tunnel Vision
1. Fleur's play has been scummy. There's no question about that. The real issue here is if she is scummy because she's a noob, or because she's scum. With this...
fleurdelys wrote:i am so sorry, i have no idea about writing posts with quotations
(I'm sorry, but this is seriously over the top...
)
...my instincts still say to lynch her. The problem is that if we let her slide today, it will be difficult to know where to "draw the line" on her scummy play. At what point will we stop chalking up her mistakes to noobishness? That's my reservation about letting her live.
w-h-a-t. Are you really seriously using this craplogic? How is her not knowing the exact quote tags even anything that resembles a sign that remotely suggest a scum tell? Another point on my list, I guess. I will use the opportunity to reformat my list so it's actually a list and not a story.
Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.
3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.
4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.
5. He admits to be actively lurking.
6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.
Feel free to reply to point 6 if that's actually not what you think, and I'll reword it. This is just how I personally read that bit though.
2. This situation will ~kinda~ work itself out. A lot depends on the body count/type tomorrow morning. There's still the possibility that he's some kind of serial killer, but we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
Agreed.
3. I think I've addressed and given reasons for my actions in the game thus far. If I've been remiss on any specifics, I welcome more questions. I'm not going to deny that I've been spontaneous and, probably to some of you, abrasive. But I'm really not trying to hide/withhold anything. I really think that fulfilling Spy's mission was good for the town, and, even though it was WIFOMFG, that's how I really looked at the situation. I do want to re-address this though;
sirdanilot wrote:
Porkens: First he was joking around, until
he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason
. Secondly,
he immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.
Thirdly, he fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town and fourthly he pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.
This is an interpretation of what I did, and doesn't represent any claims I have made about my actions. Of COURSE I'm going to say it's wrong. I voted for Fleur because she was scummy, as other had pointed out, I felt no need to regurgitate it. I unvoted because I assumed her mission and it seemed pro-town to me. Here's a little more WIFOM for you; Why would scum jump on a wagon at L-3 in such a way that would draw attention to themselves?
Interesting bit on the WIFOM. It's a classic example of craplogic. 'Why would scum do something scummy that draws attention to themselves?'
This is known as the
too-scummy argument
. Generally, too scummy arguments are very bad arguments and are to be avoided, since they only generate more WIFOM. If someone does something scummy, and you say something like 'wait, hold on, no way scum would've done something like that', then every scum tell becomes a big cesspool of WIFOM.
This was a very poor attempt to debunk my point against you. Another number on my list!
Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.
3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.
4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.
5. He admits to be actively lurking.
6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.
7. Attempts to debunk point 1 with a classic crap logic argument (specifically, a 'too-scummy' argument).
4. The case on Gorrard was small, so small that it was hard for me to even see it. the real case here is how small an amount of pressure had to be applied for Gorrard to crack open and spew out "IT'S MY META OMFG META META." Meta is NOT a good defense. Nonetheless...
I agree with you here, although I don't think the Gorrad case was that small, I don't like his meta defense either.
5. Sirdanilot accused spy of tunnel visioning on Fleur. But in every single post (including his first post), sirdanilot has done little more than flag-waved his case on myself, and MOST of the rest has been attacks on SpyreX and/or defending Fleur. I find it laughable that he would accuse someone else of tunnel vision and even be so bold as to quip:
I think you can see from miles away that your tunnel vision on fleur is way worse than my focus on Porkens.
In some ways, I know I opened myself up to this wagon. Sir's case on me, and his flag-waving, smacks to me of opportunistic (where have we hear that word before hahha), and tunneled.
Wait, hold on. Firstly, I did not only focus on you, I've talked about Gorrad as well. I am focusing on two people, and I am talking about/with two others. Can I be any less tunnel visioned without that it loses its effect?
So my case on you strikes you as opportunistic. Are you serious? That's just ridiculous. At the time, I was the VERY FIRST to post anything that even remotely expressed suspicion of you. Opportunistic would've been for me to post another parrot case on fleur or something like that. I got discussion going to where it's at now, and I never regretted it. We have found two people that are very suspicious, although you're now even more suspicious than gorrad.
(note that I'm not claiming to be the first to post anything on gorrad, if this bit suggest that)
It's unfortunate that this is going to come off as OMGUS;
unvote
vote: sirdanilot
Let me tell you something. I am one of the most easy going people when it comes to OMGUS, as long as the vote is not based on crap logic. However, yours is, so I can only conclude that this vote is as OMGUS as OMGUS can be. A final point to add to my list.
I'll reiterate again: if your vote on me had not been based on such bad logic and bad arguments, I would not have called it OMGUS. So you're at fault here.
Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.
3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.
4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.
5. He admits to be actively lurking.
6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.
7. Attempts to debunk point 1 with a classic crap logic argument (specifically, a 'too-scummy' argument).
8. OMGUS votes me, the vote is based on bad logic.
Does anyone have anything else to add on the porkens case? Anyway, I really think Porkens is our lynch today, we can look more at fleur or gorrad tomorrow. Not only do I find it extremely likely that Porkens is scum (looking at all those eight points), I also think that Porkens is the best info lynch. As I said already when the porkens and gorrad cases started growing, that phase of the game could give us absolutely huge information when we know their alignments, because it was a phase in which most people started choosing between Porkens and Gorrad. And although I'm 95% sure that Porkens is scum, we'll never be certain until we see him hang.
Note that I do think that scumminess takes precedence over information, but the latter
is
a nice bonus. The two other alternatives I see right now are the following.
1. Fleur lynch: Possibly gives us even more information than a Porkens lynch, but I personally find her less scummy, and she seems to be one of those people who give more information the longer they are alive.
2. Gorrad lynch: Gives as much information as a Porkens lynch, but I find him slightly less scummy for now.
