Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[Aristeia]

how well is your partner positioned for you to care this little about the game?

[innocentvillager]

I think earlier when I interpreted Aristeia's prodding of me as genuine sorting when no one else was, it was done more for the purpose of potentially setting me up as a later viable mis-elim. She's clearly worked for this and probably hoped that I would just be LHF and unable to catchup all game and kept using "my meta" as a convenient way to push me, which I don't think she has genuine understanding of. I think everything went according to her plan with MathBlade being the biggest obstacle, but has confused him by calling him bad repeatedly with some pretty intense AtE which I wasn't sure what to make of at the time.

pedit: it's funny you quoted that again, I was planning on getting to that at some point but I just haven't had the time

[innocentvillager]

how well is your partner positioned for you to care this little about the game?

lol

I am voting you because you voted for me and the scum didn't quickhammer me.

If you thought I was scum aware of this dynamic, why would I even vote you in the first place instead of just wait to quickhammer you? I was not locked at all into voting you. Also again I know we know Andres/Datisi is not viable anymore, but I've mentioned before that it's not crazy that they didn't quickhammer at the time.

I am voting for you because you are refusing to play this game - I refuse to believe that IV would sign up for a game just not play if he is town, I can see you being unable to get into it if you are scum and disinterested because townies are attacking each other and leaving you largely alone.

I am voting for you because you have not shown any semblance of caring or even pretending to solve through four game days now.

So you have never seen townies take a backseat to a game because of RL/desire to play less? I don't know why I need to keep explaining my approach to this game is different this game. You won't see play like this in my scum or town meta, yet you're conveniently ignoring my scum meta and just saying that I don't play like this as town

The second point just makes it seem like you're policying me and has nothing to do with my alignment. I feel like if I were scum here I would've tried to make it look like I was doing stuff and I think you know that but are just saying this anyway because it's a convenient argument.

[innocentvillager]

I am voting for you because you said you wanted to sheep House - a decision that makes no sense if you are trying to win since House hasn't been right about a single damn thing this entire game.

I said I wanted to sheep Math because I thought he was mech cleared and townie on dayplay. I clearly have no idea what's going on with the mech anymore so I'm kind of just trying to toss that out the window and go by dayplay now.

I think more people should outsource reads to their townreads (which I do a decent amount) and I didn't have time for the game at the point and I was pretty sure I would be dead today so what's even the point. Everytime I post posthumous reads I'm ignored. And I'm not sure why I should have thought he'd been wrong about everything at that point in the game (or even now? but again I'm behind so idk. Also even so I don't think people being wrong about something in a game destroys their whole credibility in that game, this is a common fallacy imo).

I am voting for you because you fake-claimed Mason as an investigative TPR and that makes no sense as a play to me.

I TR'd House and just went along with his roleswap because I felt like it and wanted to see where it went, it felt weird to not go along with it idk. I didn't think it was that likely I would die given how little of a threat I was to any scumteam at that point.

I am voting for you because the scum didn't nightkill you despite you being a claimed TPR and "mechcleaR" whatever the fuck that means.

I am voting for you because the scum shot House - a claimed TPR, probably believing him to be a strong TPR - if they know you are an TPR, they are unlikely to make that kill since House obviously is not a TPR if you are a TPR.

I am voting for you because House wants you dead and said you are likely scum if you survive the night and there's no reason for scum to shoot house if you are town because they are better off leaving house alive to push you today.

Hmm, I guess I can sort of see how the nightkill might point to me? But this also seems like easy wifom. I think you saw me as defeated and thought I would be an easy misexe to the end with this kill, which I guess you might be right about because I just don't have much time this week. And House is very unpredictable as we all know so who knows if he would've followed up on pushing me. Especially if I have to claim "no result" and they know that somehow, it just looks even worse for me

[innocentvillager]

I am voting for you because it makes no sense for there to be a roleblocker that blocked you last night because that would make this game incredibly scumsided - the central TPR is the weakfruit thing- which is entirely useless if the scum have a multi-shot roleblocker.

I am voting for you because I do not want to lose to shitty mech-spec. I want to try to win on dayplay because mechspec can be wrong but dayplay I can at least take responsibility for.

Okay idk enough to try and refute this, you win on this one I guess.

I am voting for you because you conveniently ghosted me last night instead of answering my questions. You did not do the bare minimum of answering questions people have for you, you display no curiosity or solving intent in this thread at all - all of this matches with your scum play where you tend to coast/disappear if you are not under pressure. You re-appearing with some weak AtE right after I vote for you is very convenient in terms of timing.

Has "oh player X popped up right when something interesting happened" really ever reliably caught you scum? I don't think has if you think carefully, I just don't think that's a real thing and I think you're just using this (along with other previously mentioned arguments) to try and reach for me.

I also disliked when you quoted frogster's case during the previous day as evidence in your favor without any sort of desire to look at it. I think that aligns with an approach where you were trying to sway Math that I was scum yesterday instead of actually trying to figure out if I was scum (trying to win a debate rather than discuss an issue genuinely), and I don't feel like you were actually that "confident" in me being scum at that point to completely disregard how absolutely insane that case was.

I am voting for you because your investigation of me makes no sense for you to do. You were voting for me yesterday with Mathblade - which means that from your POV I must be scum or Mathblade must be scum, since you still believe mathblade to be a town-clear, you have no reason to think I am town, hence there is no reason for you to inv me, if you inv datisi or andres, you can pin down my partner exactly. Instead you decided to target me with your inv when from your POV if you are paying attention I should already be a hard-scum player.

I've talked about this already and you are out here repeating the same thing. Idk if you actually addressed it or not but I think you "conveniently" did not. But I'll say it again: I didn't think my existence in the game mattered anymore, I was not interested in playing this game or trying mostly for that reason. I did not have you as confirmed scum yesterday and you trying to push that is weird because if I'm actually scum here faking everything I would be more aware that you are mechnically confscum to me (per your logic, which again I'll say was not true for me because of very possible hesistancy to quickhammer)

[MathBlade]

@IV: Who do you think is scum with Ari? And why?

[innocentvillager]

1) RTP's initial hero solve on D1 was lapla-iv-vpb. RTP wanted IV dead but was stopped from pushing him by the shot.

2) IV + House fake-claimed mason on D1 - the scum somehow knew this mason claim was fake and did not shoot in the pair of claimed Masons - House is already flipped VT so the only way the scum would know this information N1 and avoid shooting either House or IV is because IV is mafia.

This is a point against me since we know VPB is town now, I'll give you that. Since I know that they were killed anyway, my guesses for why that happened are:

a) Maybe one of you knew Koba's reads change a lot and were threatened by how townie they became after they hard pegged scum!Lap.
b) VPB was probably going to get pushed D2 regardless, so maybe it didn't matter.
c) Maybe they thought Koba was a PR/didn't really care about killing a mason. Or maybe both House and me were really off with our reads/basically ineffectual clears versus Koba who was clearly showing themselves to be a real threat. I know that's not super convincing because Koba did have the wrong solve at the time but idk, maybe you were thinking (a) of some sort.

"the scum somehow knew this mason claim was fake" is a big stretch.

Okay, I think that's everything for now, I've definitely overstayed my time here but I wanted to at least give out something back to this game.

[MathBlade]

@IV: Who do you think is scum with Ari? And why?

Please can you answer this?

[innocentvillager]

@IV: Who do you think is scum with Ari? And why?

People have been asking me this question a lot and I understand why

I need to think about it, I've still been focused on trying to understand what's going on and why I'm being attacked in a 1v1.

Here are my thoughts off the top of my head:

Datisi and Aristeia clearly have some sort of history. I'm not sure what they look like as scum together/if they're just theatreing everything here while secretly giggling to each other in the back. My guess on how that would manifest is a little bit more theatre between the two but maybe Datisi would get paranoid that I would suspect him to do flamboyant theatre. As for him individually, Datisi has been uncharacteristically passive towards me this game and his stance going from "town by mechclear from SS" to "yeah IV probscum" is kind of ?? but admittedly there might be more context there I'm missing so I'm willing to wait for him to explain. I think I do appreciate that overall he has given some consideration to my RL change this game rather than just treating me like lockscum because I'm not "living up to my standard town meta" so idk.

I still think Andres seems tonally like his town self in the way that he reacts to things with this stubborn indignance that makes him feel uninformed, but I've seen people able to fake it. He is not here that much which might be a scumtell for him in a vacuum because doesn't seem like he's changing up his playstyle like me. Idk it's also possible that he's sort of just making occasional noise to stay relevant in the discussion while he waits for Datisi or Math to lolvote me, actually as I'm typing this maybe it sort of feels that way more than Datisi's ?? flip on me because scum don't need to actually make their vote make sense, they can just wait for another townie to vote and then hammer.

If I had to pick a scum I would go with Andres, but I could see Datisi being scum too, I just don't really know at this point

[innocentvillager]

what are you actually thinking about btw?

Hm, from the last page alone this stood out to me like a genuine question that Aris is asking Datisi and not theatry

[innocentvillager]

Meh, I'm talking myself into "Aris is genuinely trying to pocket town!Datisi and not wasting her time with this theatre when she could be fake arguing with him instead" but that goes back to Datisi might've warned her not to aggressively theatre with him in thread. But idk still seems like genuine conversation.

[innocentvillager]

Now I am starting to wish I had been more engaged from the beginning, sigh. Little too late maybe...

[innocentvillager]

Nah actually idk if mafia is really for me anymore idk I'm kind of just not really into just feeling like crap and apologizing for throwing for town whenever I get on. (it's late and I'm just tiredposting)

[innocentvillager]

Yeah time to sleep, gn.

[MathBlade]

Mistakes made in this game aren’t exactly fixable so focus on what you can do if you’re town.

If you are town and Ari scum and we elim Ari you want to leave reads because in Ari scum world you’re dead.

So can you like give me something more concrete or how you form your reads?

[MathBlade]

Okay good night maybe tomorrow

[innocentvillager]

So can you like give me something more concrete or how you form your reads?

Can you be more specific in what you want from me? Like something that you can use tomorrow/you want me to convince you that Andres is the right choice or something?

[MathBlade]

I am trying to find the train tracks of your thoughts

It feels like you’re more focused on defense vs offense

And I can’t figure out why and how you’re getting to some of these posts.

[innocentvillager]

Yes, my first priority is defense against someone who I know is scum is pushing against me. I want to win the 1v1 first and foremost since you will be the one making the decision tomorrow ultimately. Did you expect me to not first respond to attacks on me in the little time that I had?

But if that is what you want I am happy to explain anything you found confusing in my posts. You just have to quote and ask. I'll keep rereading some of Datisi vs Andres tomorrow

[innocentvillager]

I don't know if there's like a specific way I form reads. I generally just start with a bunch of random thoughts and spitball it in a stream-of-conscious way. I tend to be someone who rarely gets tunneled on people/rarely has a confident scumread and I tend to come off as "waffly" to a lot of people, but that's more because I'm scared of confbiasing myself into wrong conclusions since I think it's really dangerous to do so. Idk if that helps

[MathBlade]

I guess it does.

I guess I was hoping for you to look at the game from a “I know Ari is scum” perspective and kinda just spew thoughts.

[Aristeia]

Now I am starting to wish I had been more engaged from the beginning, sigh. Little too late maybe...

Nah actually idk if mafia is really for me anymore idk I'm kind of just not really into just feeling like crap and apologizing for throwing for town whenever I get on. (it's late and I'm just tiredposting)

Somewhat gross to say from a scum who lurker all the way to elo.

This is not a geniune thought - it's a fake emotional appeal.

[Datisi]

Datisi has been uncharacteristically passive towards me this game and his stance going from "town by mechclear from SS" to "yeah IV probscum" is kind of ?? but admittedly there might be more context there I'm missing so I'm willing to wait for him to explain.

i don't think i've been more "passive" at you than in other games - if i'm aware that it takes me a while to read someone right, i'm likely to not expel energy for that early. as for the stance change, what is there to explain? s_s is better at mechanics that i am, he said all of you/math/him have to be town, he was conftown by virtue of being a vig, i had to let it go. but *now*, when you being town would mean there must be some sort of blocking bullshit in play, and s_s isn't alive to help out, it's not so simple anymore.

because like, the only thing you had going for you was your claim and the fact s_s was defending you. but now, mech situation has changed, and also *you have not died*. there is a very simple answer for "why is the claimed power role continuously not dying?" that i'm sure all of koba, baltar, and andres know very well. and in my experience, if you are expecting one nightkill going into yelo, and a different nightkill happens, something is *very* wrong with your worldview, because scum very rarely actually goes for the wifom game. and i was expecting you to die.

[Datisi]

@innocentvillager

And oh I see. Yeah that was in reference to that game. I probably thought you were a candidate for scum at that point in time as the PoE narrowed in that game but I only loosely followed along

what were you thinking about me in this game as compared to me in schadd's game?

i want an answer to this. i know you said you forgot or whatever but retrace your steps and think back to what you were thinking.

[Aristeia]

Hmm, I guess I can sort of see how the nightkill might point to me? But this also seems like easy wifom. I think you saw me as defeated and thought I would be an easy misexe to the end with this kill, which I guess you might be right about because I just don't have much time this week. And House is very unpredictable as we all know so who knows if he would've followed up on pushing me. Especially if I have to claim "no result" and they know that somehow, it just looks even worse for me

If I know you are town gunsmith, then I know house is bullshitting about being confirmed, hence I would leave him alive and shoot mathblade.

today then house is then not confirmed and a easy misyeet or I get him to keep pushing you and you are an easy misyeet.

In no scenario do I actually shoot house.

There is also a second element in this that has to do with this - everyone thinks House is my "partner" so even if House doesn't help me yeet you and somehow changes his mind - me flipping scum just dooms house!town on day 6 and we still win.

It is completely nonsensical for scum me to kill house because it messes with my win condition both today and tomorrow.