Micro 1044: A Normal Blitz V - Game Over

[Micc]

Jacket has been killed Night 1. He was a

Town Loyal Cop

.

It is now day 2.

Votecount 2.00

Not Voting (7) -

Umlaut, shiki, Datisi, Vanderscamp, Cape90, Enchant, Looker

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2022-02-12 20:20:00).

[Datisi]

...i might have been wrong. on like. a lot of things yesterday. x_x

[Datisi]

Actually

VOTE: Dorsey

Not impressed with their ISO, read on Shiki seems shallow and as Vanderscamp pointed out oddly rigid, and if I take 187 seriously I have to conclude they are not currently voting their top scumread. Particularly note their read on Vander: "I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me," followed by their read on Shiki: "I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying." This former read looks like it's arguing for a Shiki-Vander team but the latter looks like they don't even believe that? This readlist does not show the sort of thought I expect from someone who actually means what they are saying.

i still really don't like this post, but does it come from a buddy? does it, really??

[Datisi]

VOTE: looker

i'm townreading everyone on the wagon, or they got onto it at the time i'm not sure scum would. (enchant is in the other category i guess?)

cape vibes townie to me for the case, and i'm not scum, so let's start here

[Cape90]

okay, time for me to quake in my boots.

I refuse to believe a player with 18460 posts and counting would actually believe their shallow case on me is really amazing and worth voting me over, I also refuse to believe the reason is genuine.

first strike. do i believe my shallow case on you was some ironclad 100% guaranteed-or-money-returned scumcase? not really, no, and i never said it was. but it does not have to be that strong in order to be "worth voting you over". i've voted people for much less.

Like Datisi says 328 right? Like I criticized him for voting someone who hasn't gotten the chance to speak and they said this. So then were you just explaining your thought process from earlier? Because you said 318 which in itself is a weird post because through this post, I really don't know at all why you got off Enchant, and onto me for a post I made. To me, it just looks like you might be just spewing Jacket as town, totally fine by me honestly, most of everyone looks suspicious this game, like who isn't scummy like, there is shiki. I see an argument there could be made for Jacket and Umulant too.

i genuinely have no clue what this is even attempting to say, but. no, in 328 i was not explaining my thought process from earlier, i was explaining why your "enchant was an empty slot!!" argument from 325 is nonsense.

as for 318. first, the accusation that "i can't see why you got onto me through this post" is... okay? yeah? because that's not the point of that post? i explained why i voted you in 323 and 324, why are you giving me shit for not explaining that in 318? as for "not seeing why i got off enchant", what do you think "nonchalant" and "not-giving-a-shit" means? those are characteristics that more often come from town than from scum, i saw those characteristics in enchat's intro. wow. amazing.

Blah blah blah, anyway, so I guess Enchant was not an empty slot in 296 but you also said 313? Did you just admit you voted an empty slot? I mean, come on, it's essentially the same thing an empty slot, a person who hasn't spoken. But hold on, you said 314 didn't you? Which this raises many concerns of what you have been telling me Datisi.

enchant was not an empty slot in 296, in both senses of the word. (1 = occupied slot, 2 = slot that has produced readable material.) 313 was saying that i was not willing to vote a slot that is unoccupied, because an unoccupied slot is unable to claim.

and "empty slot" and "person who hasn't spoken" is NOT the same thing when replacements are in question. i had a read on bugs. it did not matter that enchant hadn't spoken yet, i had a read on the slot due to the stuff that bugs had posted.

305 is a mafia question, mafia seem to love asking "am i scum?"

incorrect, gauging other people's reads on my slot is one of my favourite way of reading people.

287 is a big shrug for me

either say why the post makes me scum or don't include it in a scumcase.

280 so Datisi apparently has loads of meta on bugspray, that's cool, then they swap to me not knowing what my meta is like at all... okay then?

do you think that the one and only way i am able to make reads is through meta? am i suddenly not allowed to have non-meta reads because i had one meta read in this game?

Speaking of the whole meta on bugspray thing, you notice that when you go back to the moment when Datisi suspected me for questioning him on revoting the bugspray slot. Now it is pretty clear that Datisi still holds this suspicion on bugs/enchant, however what I am wondering, hey Datisi, would the solve of the game then be just me and enchant, would it just be us both as mafia? Or do you think we are unpaired?

i don't know and i don't care. i'm not solving partnerships on day one unless there is a very good reason to do so.

You know what is strange though, I go back and look at 228 where Datisi says out of the 2 wagons at that time going on that he preferred bugspray but he expressed that he didn't like the wagon on bugspray? Excuse me hello? What?

"preferred out of the three current wagons" =/= liking a wagon. just because it's better than the alternatives, doesn't mean it's actually any good. hello???

Not like Datisi had no suspicion whatsoever on bugs as stated a bit in 220.
Datisi opts for going with Umlaut instead in 221 anyway and this isn't really brought up later on again by Datisi.

yeah, because at the time, that singular post against bugspray wasn't enough to outweigh my other feelings on the slot. also, why should i have brought up the fact i voted umlaut again? how does the fact i didn't bring it up make me scum?

As far as meta reads that Datisi had on bugs goes, there was in 219 at the top

"bugspray's latest post is very underwhelming and i'd be lying if i said i townread it,

but if i recall correctly, scum!bugs is generally more... tryhardy? or at least active, i remember them posting constantly in the first blitz.

could be that they're busy or don't feel like playing or smt, which would be nai, but eh."

Now ain't that just something.

Lemme just pull up some stuff in 135.



Oh dear it looks like Datisi found a couple of bugs posts towny.

okay? do you have a reason to think those reasonings come from scum? do you have a reason to suspect my trajectory on bugs? no? you're just gonna throw vague shade and hope it sticks? okay.

That's not exactly the interesting part, that actually comes in with the read on Jacket, where there is implied skepticism on Jacket in their post townleaning on me. And yet with Datisi's voting on me, there is little question of Datisi just going with Looker right onto me. (I say little because of 219).

i have... no clue what this is trying to accuse me of. rephrase and i'll respond.

1. I guess the thing that gets me about your vote on me is it seemed like you had more dirt on the bugspray slot, more to go off of then myself.

2. Okay hold, if my case on Enchant being an empty slot was complete hogwash, then what does 313 mean exactly?
-About 318 I felt like it would have made more sense to explain your vote on me like after you voted me. And like, not have to get prodded to do so (322) that part just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to my chronological brain. Like you vote me and then just keep talking about Enchant.

3. okay, I think I see where your actions are coming from and your thought process. My concern lies in why you would be afraid of hammer dropping on the empty slot, does this sort of thing happen really that often?

4. I have seen more mafia tending to ask that question then town, you disagree with this belief?

5. Felt like a dumb question, 99% sure they explained it. Felt like an easy, no-depth question. Also, probably a town move anyway given the flip, but obviously that's on hindsight.

6. It seemed to be a lot less shallow then the case provided on me.

7. Meh, I don't like this line of thinking when there is likely 2 mafia since it is a 9 player game. There is your good reason to do so you're welcome.

8. Okay? I mean it really seemed like you had a VERY developed kinda meta read later on to the point of tunneling the slot. But you also said they said a couple of towny things earlier on which mind you, is not really brought up when we all get to the Enchant arc.

9. What were your feelings of the bugspray slot at the time?
-Just seemed like you conveniently forgot about Umulaut when the threadstate started not moving in that direction.

10. Contradicting your OWN meta on bugs is more weird then a scum motivation I guess. Your trajectory on bugs has been all over the place and as soon as I saw 333 where I guess there was a whole partly a reaction test thing, that only adds more confusion in the mix on the trajectory of the bugs slot, but in a way, it kinda makes sense from a town angle with 333 in mind.

11. in 341, I did mean to say jacket consistently and not looker at the bottom. But you know it was Jacket who originally got on me and after I said something, you didn't really think twice about Jacket's treatment of me which you previously questioned. And I was wondering why.

[Cape90]

3. okay, I think I see where your actions are coming from and your thought process. My concern lies in why you would be afraid of hammer dropping on the empty slot, does this sort of thing happen really that often?

Expanding a little on this point. I feel like I am the type of player who likes to be careful day 1 (especially since I have been wrong A LOT). And it just felt like you were being careful for the wrong reason, like you had a suspicion of there being a hammer when I feel like it would be silly to think that if everyone is paying attention like they should be

[Enchant]

VOTE: looker

i'm townreading everyone on the wagon, or they got onto it at the time i'm not sure scum would. (enchant is in the other category i guess?)

cape vibes townie to me for the case, and i'm not scum, so let's start here

What you mean other category

[Looker]

I was afraid of this. Full disclosure: I only joined this game so that I could play with Dorsey, but now that she's dead (and for undisclosable reasons I have more time to devote to this thread), I know it's going to be an uphill battle and I'm willing to undertake it. Long story short, you killed my Ico and my Ico turned out to be scum.

[Datisi]

VOTE: looker

i'm townreading everyone on the wagon, or they got onto it at the time i'm not sure scum would. (enchant is in the other category i guess?)

cape vibes townie to me for the case, and i'm not scum, so let's start here

What you mean other category

i mean that i don't townread the content of your posts, but you do not look aligned with dorsey with the vote on them that you did

[Datisi]

1. I guess the thing that gets me about your vote on me is it seemed like you had more dirt on the bugspray slot, more to go off of then myself.

2. Okay hold, if my case on Enchant being an empty slot was complete hogwash, then what does 313 mean exactly?
-About 318 I felt like it would have made more sense to explain your vote on me like after you voted me. And like, not have to get prodded to do so (322) that part just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to my chronological brain. Like you vote me and then just keep talking about Enchant.

3. okay, I think I see where your actions are coming from and your thought process. My concern lies in why you would be afraid of hammer dropping on the empty slot, does this sort of thing happen really that often?

4. I have seen more mafia tending to ask that question then town, you disagree with this belief?

5. Felt like a dumb question, 99% sure they explained it. Felt like an easy, no-depth question. Also, probably a town move anyway given the flip, but obviously that's on hindsight.

6. It seemed to be a lot less shallow then the case provided on me.

7. Meh, I don't like this line of thinking when there is likely 2 mafia since it is a 9 player game. There is your good reason to do so you're welcome.

8. Okay? I mean it really seemed like you had a VERY developed kinda meta read later on to the point of tunneling the slot. But you also said they said a couple of towny things earlier on which mind you, is not really brought up when we all get to the Enchant arc.

9. What were your feelings of the bugspray slot at the time?
-Just seemed like you conveniently forgot about Umulaut when the threadstate started not moving in that direction.

10. Contradicting your OWN meta on bugs is more weird then a scum motivation I guess. Your trajectory on bugs has been all over the place and as soon as I saw 333 where I guess there was a whole partly a reaction test thing, that only adds more confusion in the mix on the trajectory of the bugs slot, but in a way, it kinda makes sense from a town angle with 333 in mind.

11. in 341, I did mean to say jacket consistently and not looker at the bottom. But you know it was Jacket who originally got on me and after I said something, you didn't really think twice about Jacket's treatment of me which you previously questioned. And I was wondering why.

1. i changed my mind with enchant's entrance, i didn't have anything on you to change my mind yet. and i don't always keep my vote on the person i have "the most dirt on".

2. 313 means that i did not want to vote the slot while there was nobody playing in that slot. you were arguing that the slot was still empty after enchant replaced in, because they hadn't talked, which i disagree with. and, i think there is value in making a naked vote and seeing who decides to bite. or who tries to paint me as scummy for making a naked vote. it's essentially a mini reaction test in of itself. if i *have* to show examples where i do this as town, i will, but like. ugh.

3. i don't want a hammer on a slot that cannot claim because i'm paranoid we'll vote out a power role, that has happened a few times. also, i know specifically that looker has a habit of lolhammering sometimes, so...

4. i don't agree nor disagree with it, because i don't track who asks that question more. because i think it's a sensible question to ask.

5. the timing felt weird to me, as it came right after shiki agreed with me about bugs potentially being off this game. easy and no-depth question? sure. are those something that only scum asks, though?

6. okay.

7. let me rephrase that - hunting for partnerships with no flips is *extremely difficult*. it's more likely to result in the person going down nonsense rabbit holes than actually catching the scumteam. which is why i don't do it unless there is very compelling evidence that two people are partnered.

8. this isn't even responding to the original accusation. you gave me shit for calling a wagon bad after saying it was my preferred one. i gave an explanation why those two things aren't mutually exclusive, and your response is... that i had a more elaborate metacase on bugs than on you.

9. bugspray was scummy for the most part, but said a few posts that i thought are townie. enchant came in and started acting in a way that didn't feel too scummy. so i changed course. wow.

and yes? i was scumreading umlaut, but i'm not about to waste my time trying to convince everyone that he is scum when obviously nobody agrees with me.

10. i didn't contradict anything, bugs made some posts that fit their scum!meta and some posts that fit their town!meta.

11. again, i don't make partner cases on day 1. i am aware of the fact it's entire possible that i'm wrong on jacket and that he's right on you. especially as i was townreading him by that time. it's almost like you are looking for any time i worked with someone who i previously questioned and are trying to point it out as a ~contradiction~.

[Looker]

Notes as I decide which behavior Dorsey and her partner most likely exhibited

Spoiler: Bus?

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

I wouldn't think so. Why is this a thought that popped in your head in regards to this game?

I think Dorsey has the highest chance of being scum because I really didn't like their read that shiki was scum for not voting.
Having that read in the first place was somewhat fair, but the part I really didn't like was him maintaining the read when shiki gave a pretty strong justification for it, including stating that not voting is something she often does.
I think what shiki had to say around that period was probably the towniest anyone has been this game and I dislike that Dorsey didn't pick up on that.
My townread on shiki is stronger than my scumread on Dorsey.

I still dislike Jacket's defensiveness and his reads, but I'm less sold on this being scum indicative now and more thinking it is just his playstyle to take things too seriously. The biggest part of me gaining this read was when he said "congratulations" when someone said they thought he might be a serious player or whatever it was.

I'm also happy to sheep Umlaut's read saying that Datisi wouldn't say they didn't want to kill Umlaut but then voting there anyway for a minor town lean.

Vander...I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me

I think it's Vanderscamp. VOTE: Vanderscamp Good luck.

edit-Ha

Spoiler: Buddying?

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

if i HAD to make some reads right now

townies are jacket, shiki, bugspray, dorsey, in no specific order

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

Bug...Doesn't really say much. I know you said people were calling them scum, but I didn't see much reaction.
Cape...I don't see a really telling connection with anyone. (They had unvoted Jacket but Micc just didn't catch it - had to get that off my chest)
Wheels/Datisi...Please don't make another cult. LGW struck me as a background character and I don't know what made them leave.
Looker...Minimal iso with vote shifts. I'm biased towards this behavior because I do the same thing unless I'm replacing in and there's already content.
Shiki...I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying.
Umlaut...Thought the E-1 was weird. Also leery of the pass given to Datisi for perceived contradiction or "madness", but I think that's just because I'm leery of Datisi.

i forgot the context that Dorsey was voting shiki there. Makes sense and I think it's a decent/valid thought

I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

VOTE: dorsey

why

VOTE: dorsey

sure, we have less than two hours anyway, probably not getting anything up in time

I don't see scum!Datisi hammering down like this

[Datisi]

I don't see scum!Datisi hammering down like this

that wasn't a hammer

[Enchant]

VOTE: Vanderscamp

Game staling, slash slash

[Cape90]

Notes as I decide which behavior Dorsey and her partner most likely exhibited

Spoiler: Bus?

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

I wouldn't think so. Why is this a thought that popped in your head in regards to this game?

I think Dorsey has the highest chance of being scum because I really didn't like their read that shiki was scum for not voting.
Having that read in the first place was somewhat fair, but the part I really didn't like was him maintaining the read when shiki gave a pretty strong justification for it, including stating that not voting is something she often does.
I think what shiki had to say around that period was probably the towniest anyone has been this game and I dislike that Dorsey didn't pick up on that.
My townread on shiki is stronger than my scumread on Dorsey.

I still dislike Jacket's defensiveness and his reads, but I'm less sold on this being scum indicative now and more thinking it is just his playstyle to take things too seriously. The biggest part of me gaining this read was when he said "congratulations" when someone said they thought he might be a serious player or whatever it was.

I'm also happy to sheep Umlaut's read saying that Datisi wouldn't say they didn't want to kill Umlaut but then voting there anyway for a minor town lean.

Vander...I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me

I think it's Vanderscamp. VOTE: Vanderscamp Good luck.

edit-Ha

Spoiler: Buddying?

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

if i HAD to make some reads right now

townies are jacket, shiki, bugspray, dorsey, in no specific order

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

Bug...Doesn't really say much. I know you said people were calling them scum, but I didn't see much reaction.
Cape...I don't see a really telling connection with anyone. (They had unvoted Jacket but Micc just didn't catch it - had to get that off my chest)
Wheels/Datisi...Please don't make another cult. LGW struck me as a background character and I don't know what made them leave.
Looker...Minimal iso with vote shifts. I'm biased towards this behavior because I do the same thing unless I'm replacing in and there's already content.
Shiki...I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying.
Umlaut...Thought the E-1 was weird. Also leery of the pass given to Datisi for perceived contradiction or "madness", but I think that's just because I'm leery of Datisi.

i forgot the context that Dorsey was voting shiki there. Makes sense and I think it's a decent/valid thought

I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

VOTE: dorsey

why

VOTE: dorsey

sure, we have less than two hours anyway, probably not getting anything up in time

I don't see scum!Datisi hammering down like this

How is 210

buddying

?

At least if you are actually gonna commit to saying that is buddying, call 212 buddying too

[Datisi]

cape, who do you think is scum?

[shiki]

hmhmhm

why do we think jacket was nightkilled?

[shiki]

I was afraid of this. Full disclosure: I only joined this game so that I could play with Dorsey, but now that she's dead (and for undisclosable reasons I have more time to devote to this thread), I know it's going to be an uphill battle and I'm willing to undertake it. Long story short, you killed my Ico and my Ico turned out to be scum.

hmm,

if you joined to play with dorsey, is there a reason you didn't seem invested in determining dorsey's alignment yesterday? (other than limited time)

[shiki]

Notes as I decide which behavior Dorsey and her partner most likely exhibited

it's like it's like it's like

there are pretty important questions for us to ask ourselfs for most of the slots

like

for umlaut/vanderscamp it's like, do we think they were hardbussing? or! do we think they were distancing and felt they were stuck when the tides turned to dorsey?
for enchant, do we think enchant's whisper/stated cold feet (though didn't unvote) were potentially partner indicative? and if so, why did enchant vote dorsey in the first place?
for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?
for datisi, do we think datisi's stance towards dorsey from jacket's "we need a wagon" vote on is one mafia would take towards a partner?
(and also for cape/datisi, are they currently poeing themselfs?)

[shiki]

for umlaut/vanderscamp it's like, do we think they were hardbussing? or! do we think they were distancing and felt they were stuck when the tides turned to dorsey?

because if not hardbussing or stuck, then town, yeah,

[shiki]

for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?

Votecount 1.04

Dorsey (2) -

Vanderscamp, Umlaut

Cape90 (2) -

Looker, Jacket

bugspray (2) -

Dorsey, Cape90

Jacket (1) -

bugspray

Umlaut (1) -

Datisi

Not Voting (1) -

shiki

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2022-02-08 01:00:00).

so from here it is like, now let's see if they tried to get others to join

[shiki]

for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?

Votecount 1.04

Dorsey (2) -

Vanderscamp, Umlaut

Cape90 (2) -

Looker, Jacket

bugspray (2) -

Dorsey, Cape90

Jacket (1) -

bugspray

Umlaut (1) -

Datisi

Not Voting (1) -

shiki

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2022-02-08 01:00:00).

so from here it is like, now let's see if they tried to get others to join

actually should definitely start before this

as cape unvoted vanderscamp, voted bugspray and then dorsey immediately followed

which you could maybe say dorsey was doing because pressure on dorsey,

have to look closer at this/build bigger picture

[shiki]

VOTE: Vanderscamp

Game staling, slash slash

if you think vanderscamp is most likely mafia could you explain why please? and also why you think vanderscamp took that approach to dorsey day one?

also if you feel game is stalling trying to solve it/trying to get others engaged in solving it is probably better than naked vote wagon as a way to break the stall

but also it's kinda weird to say it was stalling here without giving an opinion on the large amount of words cape and datisi have been posting for eachother as a continuation of conversation from yesterday

which, if we think cape and i are particularly similar players, then this is likely slightly +mafia for cape,

[Enchant]

Notes as I decide which behavior Dorsey and her partner most likely exhibited

it's like it's like it's like

there are pretty important questions for us to ask ourselfs for most of the slots

like

for umlaut/vanderscamp it's like, do we think they were hardbussing? or! do we think they were distancing and felt they were stuck when the tides turned to dorsey?
for enchant, do we think enchant's whisper/stated cold feet (though didn't unvote) were potentially partner indicative? and if so, why did enchant vote dorsey in the first place?
for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?
for datisi, do we think datisi's stance towards dorsey from jacket's "we need a wagon" vote on is one mafia would take towards a partner?
(and also for cape/datisi, are they currently poeing themselfs?)

I have tantrums sometimes (always). It dissapeared when Dorsey posted "Why me and what with Andante", so i decided let it.

[shiki]

which, if we think cape and i are particularly similar players, then this is likely slightly +mafia for cape,

which, i mean, probably roughly as similar as anyone if not more so as i very very rarely think, oh! that is like me! and have thought that about multiple cape posts

I feel like I am the type of player who likes to be careful day 1 (especially since I have been wrong A LOT).

[shiki]

i'm townreading everyone on the wagon

this makes a lot of sense as far as like,

would need very good reason to look outside of {datisi, cape, looker} right now

yeah