Newbie 688 - Game Over, Mafia Wins!

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:36 am

Post by vollkan »

Many thanks to QuestionMark, who henceforth replaces Panamon


=======================================
Page 6 Votecount


WeatheredClown: (0/5)
Crysnia: (0/5)
mrfixij: (0/5)
Mastin: (1/5) QuestionMark
Moses le fou: (0/5)
Scheherazade: (2/5) springlullaby, mrfixij,
QuestionMark: (3/5) Scheherazade, Crysnia, Moses le fou,
springlullaby: (0/5)
orangepenguin: (0/5)

Not Voting: (3/9) Mastin, orangepenguin, WeatheredClown

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
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Last edited by vollkan on Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:48 am

Post by WeatheredClown »

welcome mark... or do you prefer question?

Anyway.. you have an uphill battle ahead of you, so get caught up and then dive in!

We're glad to have you.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:32 pm

Post by QuestionMark »

Sigh. After a long, long day, confirming that I am replacing Panamon. A little emotionally drained at the moment, so I may not get back to guys for a couple days, as I do have plans for tomorrow. Hoping to get an analysis of the game so far up by tonight if I can compose myself however.
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:16 pm

Post by vollkan »

Mastin and moses le fou have been prodded
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:05 pm

Post by mrfixij »

QuestionMark wrote:Sigh. After a long, long day, confirming that I am replacing Panamon. A little emotionally drained at the moment, so I may not get back to guys for a couple days, as I do have plans for tomorrow. Hoping to get an analysis of the game so far up by tonight if I can compose myself however.
Best of luck. Lets see what you've got. Don't come here all weepy now, we don't want to have to consider that a scumtell.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:06 pm

Post by Mastin »

Well, with a prod, I have no choice but to post saying that I'm alive and well.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Post by Moses le fou »

Sorry, I've been waiting for a response from Panamon. And now his replacement has nothing? Oh jeez.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:38 am

Post by Scheherazade »

Or, Mastin, you could tell us what plan you meant in your confirmation post.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:19 am

Post by mrfixij »

I say if he doesn't tell us what he meant in the next 48 hours we give him some "incentive" to.
Also answer to 'e, it, scumbag, 'ey you!, and his royal towniness.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:13 am

Post by orangepenguin »

Scheherazade wrote:Or, Mastin, you could tell us what plan you meant in your confirmation post.
Didn't he say that his plan was to not..post? "Because posting more when accused makes you scummier" :roll:
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:16 pm

Post by Moses le fou »

Can we just lynch QuestionMark already? I think at this point we're at a crossroads and need the info gathered from a lynch. Let's give QM time to RC in case he's a doc or cop, but beyond that, it doesn't feel like anybody has anything new to say.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:48 am

Post by mrfixij »

This game's severe lack of content is frustrating me. I've played an entire mafia game in the time it's taken for us to get less than 150 posts here. We really don't have anything to work with, and that's ONLY HELPING SCUM. Usually lurking and a lack of content is a scumtell, well if that's the case, then everyone here is very scummy.

If indeed Mastin was referring to his desire to post less to avoid getting himself lynched, then he's engaging in pro-self and anti-town behavior, which is, by correlation, pro-scum behavior. The individual townie's goal is NOT to stay alive, unless you are a power role. The individual townie's goal is to lynch scum, end of story. Mastin, if you're afraid of defending yourself because you don't want to look scum, then you are not helping town. At all. So far, there's only a few posts with significant content, and most of them are focused on analyzing something with no real content, trying to find a diamond in a pile of horse ****.

So as it is, the only thing we have to work with is mastin's lack of activity and Panamon (questionmark)'s comment and accusation on another game. Obviously, the second can't be fairly addressed here, as it's simply metagaming, which is a null-read. I don't like Panamon's play, but I want to see something from Question before I commit to lynching him. However, even moreso than that, I want to see some activity.

unvote
vote: Mastin


Get your priorities straight. I have things I do outside of here too, I balance my life out. Watching anime is hardly a hobby that is required to fit into a time schedule. Get your butt on here every once in a while and give us something to work with. Defend yourself and we'll have content. Sit back and do nothing and you'll get lynched without helping town at all.
Also answer to 'e, it, scumbag, 'ey you!, and his royal towniness.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:39 am

Post by Mastin »

Priorities Straight? I come here every day, view every post. I just don't feel the need to say anything. But if you do believe that lynching me will help the town, then by all means, do proceed. Really, I don't have anything else to say.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:31 am

Post by orangepenguin »

So your active lurking?
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:03 pm

Post by Moses le fou »

I don't feel like Mastin's scum at this point -- his play reeks too strongly of poor town play. Meanwhile, I feel like Panamon's actions have been fairly scummy. While I agree that we shouldn't take the content of his accusation against Scheherazade against him, his general actions (virulently attacking a player over nothing, breaking the rules, placing Scheher in a place where the only real defense is to break the rules herself) are bad.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:05 pm

Post by Moses le fou »

Mastin wrote:Priorities Straight? I come here every day, view every post. I just don't feel the need to say anything. But if you do believe that lynching me will help the town, then by all means, do proceed. Really, I don't have anything else to say.
You have nothing to say about whom we should lynch or whom we shouldn't lynch? That's sort of the point of the game.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:25 am

Post by springlullaby »

mrfixij wrote:
springlullaby wrote:Shez, it puzzles me that you are agreeing with what I said so readily. My being an IC doesn't mean I'm automatically town. I could have ulterior motives.

The same goes to mrfixij.
It could be me being blind and having a non-functioning brain at 1:00 in the morning, but I fail to see where we agree with you. If anything, from what I've seen, you're agreeing with a previously expressed sentiment of mine.

Also, saying that you could have ulterior motives is the obvious statement of the century. As soon as a player grasps the basic element of mafia, (s)he is aware that scum is going to have ulterior motives. Since the town doesn't know who scum is, every player could have said ulterior motives. The real question is, do you or don't you?

If I didn't know better I'd say that you're almost trying to hint at your position this early in the game. That, or you're saying that the aforementioned agreement which I can't find anywhere is a slight scumtell in our direction, in which case you should be a little more upfront, don't you think? Or, as a third option, you're simply calling it a null-tell, which is useless for town to hunt down scum.

When I say you agreed with me I refer to the fact that you voted Schez apparently on my lead, whereas when you first pointed out Schez's post being lacking of content (or in your words, giving too much away), you didn't vote for her.

What do you think of Schez exactly?
Scheherazade wrote:@springlullaby: Even if you're mafia taking advantage of a weak post I made, I'm somewhat culpable because I gave you that opening. When it's appropriate to contradict you and say "no, that post had lots of content" I will. If I could improve, then why pick a fight with you when you could be town trying to help rather than mafia?

Either way, I'm keeping our exchange in the back of my mind. If you do anything else that strikes me as slightly off, I'll remember this. Don't think I've swallowed it whole.
Hm, I don't like much your answer here, I believe it constitutes a drastic change in tone from your last post which was much more on the 'appeasing' side. This is scummy because scum have very often difficulties in maintaining a consistent character.

So far you are the one who is pinging my scumdar the strongest, and I am very interested in getting you lynched, what do you say?

Orangepenguin, it is time you chirp in. You have contributed near to nothing so far, and this is even more unacceptable because you are an IC.
You are the second on my scumlist, I would not be unhappy to get you lynched either. Who do you think is scum?

Concerning Mastin, I think it is a dead tree. At this point he could as easily be scum than town. An investigation should clear the matter.
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:51 am

Post by Scheherazade »

@springlullaby: I changed my tone because I think you were wrongly reading too much acquiescence in my other post.

As for lynching me, you want to do it because I broke a rule that wasn't a rule and my posts don't sound properly homogeneous. I think you're grasping. I know it's day one and therefore difficult to get a good read of any particular person, but you've had tunnelvision this entire game. Your suspicion started exactly two pages in. Are you really that convinced?

As for the Mastin bit, the result of his investigation should only be revealed after we've lynched the other mafia player. Why are you advocating an investigation already?
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:58 am

Post by WeatheredClown »

Scheherazade wrote:As for the Mastin bit, the result of his investigation should only be revealed after we've lynched the other mafia player. Why are you advocating an investigation already?
What's the story with this?
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:21 am

Post by Scheherazade »

@WeatheredClown: I was responding to springlullaby's "An investigation should clear the matter."

If the town is calling for an investigation of an individual, it seems that the implication is that the cop should investigate and role-claim, revealing the fruits of his or her investigation. That's why I asked "why are you advocating an investigation already?" There's only one possible set-up that has both doctor and cop, so she can't claim that she just expected the one to protect the other. Sacrificing the cop to get one mafia player while the other is still out there doesn't seem like a wise town move.

Honestly, Mastin seems to be on almost everybody's list. As she said, we're not getting more out of him now. So why rush to investigate him?

Until we have more information from Mastin, it's going to be obvious if the cop investigates Mastin and tries to nudge us towards lynching him day two. I think it's far better to let the investigation wait. In the meantime, the cop can investigate other players and can hopefully argue for or against their lynches with certainty. Why would we want to lose that power for the sake of vindicating Mastin?

Does any of that make sense?
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:34 am

Post by mrfixij »

Scheherazade wrote:@WeatheredClown: I was responding to springlullaby's "An investigation should clear the matter."

If the town is calling for an investigation of an individual, it seems that the implication is that the cop should investigate and role-claim, revealing the fruits of his or her investigation. That's why I asked "why are you advocating an investigation already?" There's only one possible set-up that has both doctor and cop, so she can't claim that she just expected the one to protect the other. Sacrificing the cop to get one mafia player while the other is still out there doesn't seem like a wise town move.

Honestly, Mastin seems to be on almost everybody's list. As she said, we're not getting more out of him now. So why rush to investigate him?

Until we have more information from Mastin, it's going to be obvious if the cop investigates Mastin and tries to nudge us towards lynching him day two. I think it's far better to let the investigation wait. In the meantime, the cop can investigate other players and can hopefully argue for or against their lynches with certainty. Why would we want to lose that power for the sake of vindicating Mastin?

Does any of that make sense?
Two fallacies I see in there.

One, you're assuming we have a cop. By doing so, you're either claiming cop yourself, which is setting you up to get NK'd, or trying to draw him out/give him orders. It's never a good idea to tell the cop/doc who to target, they can figure it out for themselves. If we have a cop, he needs to keep his head down.

Secondly, we need a lynch day one. Otherwise that puts us behind scum. Right now one of our biggest suspects is mastin. Unless you're putting your own head on the chopping block for him, then he seems like a good candidate for a lynch. In the process, we could upturn a new scummy player or at least gather information from votes for later in the game. As it is, waiting for a cop to investigate Mastin is putting the cop's life on the line as well as redirection attention to someone else for the lynch, maybe even the cop if we have one.

We need more discussion. In lieu of discussion, more votes works. I'm not at all comfortable with Orange's lack of a vote, and mastin's non-voting indicates scummyness even moreso to me. Weatheredclown hasn't made a vote yet either, but is at least contributing to conversation. While that by no means excludes her from suspicion, it does alleviate it.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:44 am

Post by Scheherazade »

@mrfixij: I think you might have missed the point of my post. I was saying why I thought
springlullaby wrote:Concerning Mastin, I think it is a dead tree. At this point he could as easily be scum than town. An investigation should clear the matter.
was not a smooth move...

Therefore, I wasn't assuming the existence of a cop, necessarily. I was responding to her assumption. So neither one of your two scenarios is accurate. Even if her assumption were valid, I think there are better courses of action for the cop. I can see you more or less agree with me:
mrfixij wrote:It's never a good idea to tell the cop/doc who to target, they can figure it out for themselves
Scheherazade wrote:...the cop can investigate other players [otherr than Mastin, that is]...
Secondly, where did I even attempt to defend Mastin? Where did I even say that we shouldn't lynch him on day one? I was arguing against investigating him night one:
Scheherazade wrote:Honestly, Mastin seems to be on almost everybody's list... So why rush to investigate him?

...

Why would we want to lose that power [of the cop] for the sake of vindicating Mastin?
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:02 am

Post by mrfixij »

Investigation doesn't always refer to a cop. It can refer to just y'know, questioning and drawing responses. As it is though, my mind is basically made up for now. At the very least we can get some material from 'im.
Also answer to 'e, it, scumbag, 'ey you!, and his royal towniness.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:14 pm

Post by mrfixij »

Alright, I've gone back and re-read the thread and read a few more games to try to get another perspective.

First off: mastin. Don't think for a second I like your playstyle. You offer a lot of text with very little content. But I think you're more of a village idiot than a scum. I've seen bad players get good over the span of one game, and maybe you can be one. Shape up. For starters, I want to know your thoughts on Schehera and Panamon/mark. Also, do you have any other suspects right now?

Secondly: schehera. The more I look at this thread, the scummier you seem.
Scheherazade wrote:Town, I think we should hold off lynching Mastin, even if his posts have condemned him enough in your eyes, until after more players have posted.

It might be a red flag that he's encouraging us to lynch him, whatever his motive. And I think he's wrong when he states "you might regret hesitating": if we hastily lynch him as scum, we may lose some insight into who his partner may be.

Having written the above, his partner might lurk, but I think that any lurking is suspect anyway.
This is a nice sentiment, but you're really not offering town any incentive to NOT lynch mastin. I think that's what you were going for. If mastin is lynched, and turns up town, your protest is seen and helps your cred, keeping the pressure off you. If mastin isn't lynched, then there's a player that you've seen as weak and less of a threat who is still in play. Either way, if you're scum, you win.

Also, as I've stated, I don't like you referencing the cop in this game. I don't care if we have one or not, I don't want him to get any funny ideas and pop his head up in a way that scum (or you perhaps) can pick up on. We do not, and I repeat, DO NOT need to know who cop is if we have one. It is counter beneficial for cop's presence or name to be known.

Also, going back to the mastin issue again, in post 132, you try to extract material out of him that has already been extracted. It seems like you're not really paying attention to the game, or want him to remain suspicious. The less obvi-town players there are, the better chance scum has of surviving.

Regardless, I don't like your play at all.

Unvote mastin (again)
Vote: Scheherazade


Spring Lullaby: what exactly DID you mean by investigation? Also, do you have any other suspects besides schehera? And is there any good reason that you have yet to cast a vote?

Orange: where do you stand as far as scumdar goes? Any reason for the nonvoting?

Vollkan: is there any chance that when you votal, you can include a history? In another game I play, it's customary to include unvotes in the format (name). It makes it easier to run votals and easier to see history.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:19 pm

Post by orangepenguin »

I think Mastin is a bad choice for lynch. I think he is just a bad player, which isn't indicative of scum always.


I think the scummiest at this point is Panamon, but he was replaced, so I want to hear from his replacement before I pursue anything further.

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