Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)

[SpyreX]

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Porkens (4): sirdanilot, dahill1, kloud1516, Biohazard
Gorrad (1): Plum
Fleurdelys (1): SpyreX
dahill1 (1): Porkens
SpyreX (1): fleurdelys

Not voting (3): CoheedCambria09, wolframnhart, Gorrad

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

Why? Why do you think he's entitled to just hop on the fleur bandwagon like that, while he's never posted seriously before? Just because you are that convinced fleur is scum? What if she isn't? You are just assuming that she's scum.

Also, I'm going to throw out something hypothetical here. Assume fleur-scum and porkens-scum. Do you think that it would have been unlikely for prokens-scum to have voted fleur-scum? I actually don't think so.

So we can disregard fleur's alignment in this, Porkens simply did something scummy.

You're pulling a trick,
from his post six.

Switching the names,
exactly the same.

Its not realistic,
to yell "opportunistic"

When you consider,
what she had for dinner.

Post 105,
WILL NEVER JIVE.

So someone voting,
is never doting.

Fleur has to find someone. Don't you find it a bit unlikely that a mafia-aligned player would have to find his buddy?

Your thoughts are muddy,
why assume its her buddy?

You give me the roll eyes,
when she could have easily lied.

Or that finding is good,
Why believe that it would.

You've got some gumption,
with your assumptions.

The only opinion that is known is about fleur. When I asked you about porkens, you managed to give an answer that's

simply untrue

, and with all my other attempts to get you to talk about someone or something not called 'fleur' amount in you evading the question and redirecting it back to fleur.

The case is weak,
I do not seek.

Since I dont agree,
You give the third degree?

The others aren't playing,
so what am I saying?

It should be no riddle,
my stance is the middle.

You know very well where my suspicions lie.

Mostly on porkens

. And the more I am conversing with you, the more I have the feeling that you are using your PR to avoid my questions.

I know it's a bit hard for you to post a lot of information like that, but I must say that you've done pretty well so far, you've been really creative. If you are really the vig,

then I think it'd be good for you to stray away a bit from your tunnel vision on fleur.

From where I sit,
I see a hypocrite.

and with all my other attempts to get you to talk about

someone or something

not called 'fleur' amount in you evading the question and redirecting it back to fleur.

Your attempts have no torque,
they're only on pork.

Your heuristic,
is opportunistic.

I've seen lying,
to avoid dying.

Threaten the town,
turn upside down.

Saying give silence,
to avoid violence?

Saying I have desperation,
to avoid my accusations.

Its like a look,
in the scum book.

No reason alive,
after 105.

Every post confirms,
that she is a worm.

Not only me then noticed that Spyrex is not giving enough

, and that he is redirecting questions about other users, only focusing on me.

Because it is not only me who thinks he is being suspicious,

It must be a blur,
when did this occur?

My brain must be affected,

show me

when I redirected.

As for opportune,
this makes me swoon.

[Plum]

As promised, I'm doing a reread, so I'm going to post my thoughts as I read and summarize at the end, I think. This may echo somethings others have said, but I'm typing it out as I see it.

First of all, on reread Fleur's explaination (post #193) of her actions seem like fairly reasonable of a newbie town who's trying to grasp things but having trouble. She made mistakes, but in context, especially with her very earliest posts, she seems an acutely newbish town. Could still be scum, but her exlaination cleared up quite a few things, and for now she's at slightly above baseline suspicion from me.

Porkens, whose case I didn't address at the time, plus what's happened since I've been V/LA: Vote did seem rather opportunistic, and I very much don't like that it was placed without any explaiation or analysis. His interpretation of Fleur's roleclaim (before the mission claim) is a sort of subjective thing: Looking at it again, I can see why he might have assumed her mission was what it is at first, without the mission claim.

Then the unexpected action to fulfill SpyreX's mission, saying that SpyreX seems pro-town to him. No explaination there. As to whether it makes him more scummy or townie, well, it all seems a bit WIFOM-y to me. Either scum or town might have made that move, and it would depend especially on the individual player. He could do it to gain town points, or to help a scumbuddy, or could be town and sincerely thought SpyreX pro town and helping him complete his mission at that point, without consulting the town, the right thing to do. Not the most pro-town, in my view, thing I've ever seen done, but somewhat ambiguous as well. I didn't love the fact that he didn't consult the town on what he did or give many solid reasons, as below. I disagree with his reasoning that scum wouldn't openly try to complete a mission; SpyreX's mission seemed to be the sort of thing he had to tell us about. I don't see any other way to get someone to post a one-word post saying 'Rumpelstiltskin'. The other reasons are, in order, somewhat fair (SpyreX's consistent position on Fleur and lack of scumminess made him seem pro-town) and iffy (he wants to get an idea of what the mission bonuses are like). Minor suspicion, or at least hightened alertness on him, but at this point there's a bit too much WIFOM, in my opinion, to make too much of a case of his actions on SpyreX's mission. Also: I'm intrigued, in a positive way, by Porkens' breadcrumbing, kinda good gut feeling on that.

Gorrad: Has posted very little during my V/LA. I don't feel compelled to unvote at this time, nor do I think that leaving my vote where it is will cause a precarious situation. My suspicions on him stand.

SpyreX: Became a pro-twon vig on completion of his mission, apparently, which is good. It's possible that he's scum and lying about the bonus, sure, but as I read him just after the bonus was awarded, I thought much more likely town. On the other hand, he's sticking pretty hard with his case on Fleur. On the third hand, Fleur's play has been somewhat questionable. Though I interpret her as more likely newb-town, SpyreX doesn't seem to. @ SpyreX: Could you look at Fleur's post #193 and tell me why you don't find it a decent explaiantion of her thought process and don't think that her explaiantion indicates newb-town, or at least neutral-newb mistakes? Granted everyone interpreted her bit about 'what if if I'm killed the town loses' thing differently and she's done other questionable things, but if you're focusing so much on her I'd like to see your thoughts on that post.

Gorrad and in a small way Plum (no offense to either) could have the same thing said about them at that time.

None taken, but Wolf, and everyone else: I've already stated that I'll never post Friday sundown through Saturday evening. I hope you don't consider it lurking if there's a 25-27 or so hour window during the week I'm

micro

-V/LA; in any case, you do know. I can give you exact times each week, I think, if you want me to.

[SpyreX]

How lucky to see,
a question for me!

In post 193,
explanations I see.

Yet not for the bad
posts that she's had.

Some could be null
Yet others not so dull.

The below mistakes,
I think a scum makes.

Gorrad, can You just tell me why you want eliminate me so quickly? It doesn't seen a revenge for I didn't vote for You and at the same time you seem to really want me gone-what is the reason?

SpyreX, don't worry about me-i'm the one who talks more then anybody here, so it's bad to judge if shutting up would be a bad idea in my case. it's weird that the players did not think about my role at all.

What if my death means that all the town dies?

i can only say that you should save me. i don't know if i can reveal my role, i don't think i can.;

however, it is highly important for the townies but important for scums as well.

this is why you should give me a chance

What? Should I say what my role is-is that what You mean? I'm afraid I might be killed during the night if I reveal it.

or is there a doctor to defend me every single night?

i am important for scum, because i am an important player in the game-

as i said, what if they kill me and this means they win the whole game? even if not, as a member of town i would hate being killed as an important member-for town's sake
that's why i felt uncomfortable with revealing my character earlier, and asked for the doctor to take care of me during nights

But it says "town" in my role description i gave you

i don't see sense in revealing everything, for you'll get everything after i;'m done, aren't you? what's the point-you'll be surprised.

i don't see the fun of the game after letting everybody know who i am and what is my mission either it is pro town or bad. so, if it makes you suspicious-pity, that's fair enough, but i'd rather play it shorter then revealing everything about me and remain with nothing

The problem is, after revealing my mission you'll think i'm being scummy again. i can tell my mission is about checking which player have a slipper i found as a prince. does it make you not voting for me?

This is what i am talking about- i also

think

i need to find this character, and obviously it might sound scummy for you, because the fact that i am a prince looking for slippers doesn't make me more pro-town then before i have revealed my mission.

I don't think he does put words in my mouth, quite a few times i said that i never claimed that my role is that important, i said i was only asking you what if-look at my posts just before claiming and after claiming my role

Porkens, you weren't that creative either throughout the games, and I might even say that for me your reasons for say spyrex name are unconvincing;

especially second one- if he doesn't vote for you, he must be pro-town? what?

i don't agree with changing the course of voting so radically, but at the same time, the reasons for voting on You and Gorrad were quite a good reasons. I was trying to explain everything I was accused for, ad You were obviously lurking. And somehow, I would be open to change my votes-just give me the reason

Now it is different- Spyrex was pointing me

desperately

for a quite a long time, although I was ignoring it. This time he strongly suggests that I am a scum, but he actually never says why he thinks so. His tone is though really strong, and I don't like it.

Just because I hate being pointed at constantly by somebody who

completely ignores my arguments

, never comments on them, instead simply calls me stupid- makes me scummy. fair enough.

Spyrex, I am so tired of You shouting to lynch me- go and lynch me if you want. i would just like to hear why aren't you thinking of anybody else, only me and if you have any questions for me, i would be happy to answer. but the problem with you is, you only say "yeah, she is a scum, look at her scummy actions, her role might have been made up (of course), and so is her mission (fair enough) so let's lynch her!',

but even if they are made up

, I think that is the only thing I can do. Claim it. I can promise if you want:P but will it be more persuasive? I don't think so.

Also, I don't like the fact that Spyrex is so

desperate

to draw your attention on me, obviously because it is about me, but also because he is strong in his claims, however, not giving any specific reasons.

I do not trust SpyreX either, and it is not only because he votes on me. Also, he is quite

desperate

and strong in his voting, and at the moment when everybody's analizing the situation, he could analize it with u, instead his posts are very general. However, it is not enough for me to vote on him, so i probably stick to Porkens

Not only me then noticed that Spyrex is not giving enough, and that he is redirecting questions about other users, only focusing on me.
Because it is not only me who thinks he is being suspicious,

VOTE: SpyreX

If you need explanation,
have no hesistation.

Most are obvious,
to not a novice.

However all the above,
makes me think scum love.

Hence my vote stays,
right where it lays.

There's no desperation,
in my case preservation.

As an aside,
I cant abide:

Also: I'm intrigued, in a positive way, by Porkens' breadcrumbing, kinda good gut feeling on that.

Even if you are sleazy,
breadcrumbing is easy.

Although I dont like the case,
I'd rather look at his face.

[dahill1]

blah school's kicking my ass
my thoughts still haven't really changed
porkens still hasn't really done anything to convince me to change my vote, and i still think fleur is town

[Biohazard]

Interseting posts thus far. The interaction between Fleur and Sprye X I think contan some valuable information. I'm seeing the case on Fleur but I feel that she isn't neccasarly the lynch of the day and I find Porkens much more scummier than Fleur. I am currently awaiting Porken's response to my post (Not that I plan to drop out of discussion because of it!)

I do not trust SpyreX either, and it is not only because he votes on me. Also, he is quite desperate and strong in his voting, and at the moment when everybody's analizing the situation, he could analize it with u, instead his posts are very general. However, it is not enough for me to vote on him, so i probably stick to Porkens

Not only me then noticed that Spyrex is not giving enough, and that he is redirecting questions about other users, only focusing on me.
Because it is not only me who thinks he is being suspicious,

VOTE: SpyreX

??? This is only a post apart from each other. (Right after sirdanilot had questioned Sprye X on several points) I mean seriously is it when someone suddenly comes up with more reasons you decide to vote on?

Here's a list of who I think is town and scum (unoffical just my thoughts)
Scum:
Porkens (80-85%)
Fleurdelys(75%-78%)
Gorrad(65%-68%)

Town:
Plum(85%-89-90%)
Sirdanilot(82%--85%)
Wolfframnhart(75%-78%)
Dahill1(68%-72%)

Neutral:
SpryeX(50%)

Not Certian/Needs to post more:
CoheedCambria09
Kloud1516

[Biohazard]

(Also the percentages is just an estimated percentage ratio on how town or scummy a person is)

[wolframnhart]

I like Bio's post, i also am questioning Fleurs sudden vote, but i very much agree that we have two players that need to start posting more.

[CoheedCambria09]

have to reread the game, will post my thoughts then, most likely today sometime, if not tomorrow.

[CoheedCambria09]

Ok, just did a reread and:

Gorrad: Has posted very little in my opinion. The whole situation with noob card was pretty much it. He eventually writes fleur off as town. Active lurking
*Most suspicious IMO*

Porkens: Random votes, Admitted lurking, Figured out Fleurs mission just by her role claim. *COMPLETES* Spyrex's mission without first discussin it, even though many people had voiced their opinions earlier that it would be best to wait. Defence of situation full of WIFOM. Possible breadcrumbing (the role that i think of that was bc'd id pro-town, reason vote isnt there)
*Suspicious*

SpyreX: Has a post restriction to rhyme. Bluntly states what his mission is. When mission is complete he becomes a Vig. Really Really set on lynching or killing Fleur.
*Uncertain*

Dahill: Wanted tp play "normally" in regards to Spyrex. Wanted Fleur talking. Likes the Porkens case over the Gorrad case.
*town*

Kloud1516: Very quiet. Agreed with dahill about Spyrex. Was suspicious of Fleur. Voted Porkens for a oppertunistic vote. Not much esle IMO
*Uncertain*

Biohazard: Didnt want to complete Spyrex's mission right away. Didn't think Fleur was playing the newbie card. Voted Gorrad for active lurking. Wanted to know why Spyrex revealed power role (answer was so town wasnt confused by 2 bodies) Other posts contained good content as well.
*Tres Town*

Wolframnhart: Explained some game mechanics to Fleur. Didn't want to say Spyrex's name. Says he is watching Fleur and Spyrex. Doesn't trust Spyrex as vig.
*Town*

CoheedCambria09(tried to be impartial): Agreed with not saying Spyrex's name. Thought Fleur was backtracking somewhat. Questioned Fleurs role hint (town will die if I die thing). Thought Spyrex may be 3rd party aligned. Doesnt trust Spyrex as vig. (post more)
*Town*

Sirdanilot: I really didnt get much on him. First post is pg 8 and was a don't lynch fleur post.
*Uncertain*

Fleurdelys: Eager to play. Wants complexity in the game. Wants to fight for Spyrex to stay alive. thought Spyrex was a different character than everyone else...bad logic follows, wants to lurk. Threatens town! Says role is important for both town and scum. Confusing (for me atleast) Then claims prince, with later mission claim being to find cinderella. Thinks Porkins tried to runi Spyrexs mission. Angry at Spyrex for relentless attacks.
*Leaning newb scum*

Plum: Eager to play as well. Didn't want to say Spyrex's name as well. Suspicious of Fleur. Voted Gorrad. Didnt get much else.
*Uncertain, leaning town*

vote Gorrad

[Gorrad]

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

[Biohazard]

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

No it defiantly is active lurking. There has been ton of content in discussion already in the past 14 pages and you find nothing to discuss or contribute. So basically your tactic is to stay out of discussion and not contribute anything at all in fear of "just putting in unnessary posts" in. Everybodies input in discussion is important and if you feel you can't contribute anything in discussion then ask for replacement and stop hindering discussion.

[Gorrad]

Give it time. When someone or something interests me, I'll pursue it like there's no tomorrow until I'm proven wrong. Read Sci-Fi/Fantasy Movie Mafia if you don't believe me.

[Biohazard]

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

No it defiantly is active lurking. There has been ton of content in discussion already in the past 14 pages and you find nothing to discuss or contribute. So basically your tactic is to stay out of discussion and not contribute anything at all in fear of "just putting in unnessary posts" in. Everybodies input in discussion is important and if you feel you can't contribute anything in discussion then ask for replacement and stop hindering discussion

.

Same answer I'm giving you from your last post. So basically when you feel like contributing you'll just come into discussion when someone peaks your interset. There's already been ton of discussion on players and people did ton of suspicous things yet nothing peaked your interset and you'll only contribute when you feel like it? This is scummy and even if you did so in another game the same tactic it's lurking and hindering discussion and if this is how you play then I suggest you may want to change your playstyle.

[CoheedCambria09]

I understand that you will comment more and pursue something when you are interested in it, but saying that isnt proving us wrong about you actively lurking. By saying that nothing is interesting you right now (as you havent said much) it shows your reading the topic and just not posting. Which is pretty much actively lurking.

[CoheedCambria09]

EBWOP: Way to steal my thunder Biohazard lol, posting while I type mine.

[fleurdelys]

wolf, and Biohazard- if you look at my posts, you'll notice that my voting is not so sudden. i've been thinking about voting Spyrex, but at the same time I am trying to choose wisely enough, and being on the town side. so i first wanted to see if it's just me thinking he's scummy, or can it be seen by somebody as well.
This is my analysis:

Spyrex; don't like his technique, not only because he is desperate to exterminate me, but also because he's not giving enough content in his posts, especially on other users. yes, he can answer the questions but besides lynching me he doesn't provide us with any opinion or suspicions, which for me is scummy enough

Biohazard: i think he is pro-town, especially because he's been focusing on the situation, he;s also provided us with some interesting view on situations and generally, he is logical and seems to act townie

Gorrad: i don't think he is lurking, i think he just tries to analyze the situation well before voting.

wolf:he might be townie, for the same reason as Biohazard- he is actively looking for a scum

dahill: the same as wolf and Biohazard, although he is a really strong in his townisness:P it might be a scummy thing to do, but i need to look closer

Porkens: hmmm....i really think it was scummy-not consulting with us. because it does not show that he actually works on the town side, so for me he is suspicious

coheedcambria: i think you're lurking, it is scummy to just analyze the situation in one go and never actively discuss it with other users

plum: i didn't get enough information to say anything, he might be both for me

[Gorrad]

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

No it defiantly is active lurking. There has been ton of content in discussion already in the past 14 pages and you find nothing to discuss or contribute. So basically your tactic is to stay out of discussion and not contribute anything at all in fear of "just putting in unnessary posts" in. Everybodies input in discussion is important and if you feel you can't contribute anything in discussion then ask for replacement and stop hindering discussion

.

Same answer I'm giving you from your last post. So basically when you feel like contributing you'll just come into discussion when someone peaks your interset. There's already been ton of discussion on players and people did ton of suspicous things yet nothing peaked your interset and you'll only contribute when you feel like it? This is scummy and even if you did so in another game the same tactic it's lurking and hindering discussion and if this is how you play then I suggest you may want to change your playstyle.

Incorrect. I was interested in pursuing Fleur, and so I was more active until my mind was changed. Right now I don't have anything that could change someone's mind on Porkens or SpyreX, both of whom I find protown, so I'm not interested in cases on them until a point is made that I object to. As it is, the votes seem based either on OMGUS (Fleur's on SpyreX) or on extremely weak logic/WIFOM that has, I believe, been pointed out already (Why would Porkens intentionally fulfill a nonscum mission as scum?).

As things stand, in fact, I would be most suspicious of you, Bio. You seem to be rather singlemindedly pursuing me on a variety of charges that I find to be somewhat lacking. However, even that's not worth my vote on you.

[CoheedCambria09]

Fleur: I know I haven't been posting much, Real life and school sometimes limit the amount of time I have for posting on here and reading everything as carefully as I should. I'm going to try and start more actively posting .

[fleurdelys]

Coheed, i understand, i don't have much time either, i wanted to write something about each user, so because you are not suspicious for me, but at the same time haven't proven enough to be considered pro-town, i just found you in-between.
Gorrad, what you write is not townie for me. If you are town, then why are you protecting two users that the rest of us found suspicous( maybe not spyrex, for only i found him reallly scummy, but definitely porkens), and also, if you are townie, you would want to help us lynch the scum, so you wouldn't be just ignoring the situation. i understant coheen, who simply doesn't have time to be cso active, but you just give this weird excuses which i found scummy
FoS: Gorrad

[Gorrad]

Coheed, i understand, i don't have much time either, i wanted to write something about each user, so because you are not suspicious for me, but at the same time haven't proven enough to be considered pro-town, i just found you in-between.
Gorrad, what you write is not townie for me. If you are town, then why are you protecting two users that the rest of us found suspicous( maybe not spyrex, for only i found him reallly scummy, but definitely porkens), and also, if you are townie, you would want to help us lynch the scum, so you wouldn't be just ignoring the situation. i understant coheen, who simply doesn't have time to be cso active, but you just give this weird excuses which i found scummy
FoS: Gorrad

Because there's no rule that says that what other people believe is true. The fact that there are scum out there intentionally lying compounds that. I disagree with "reasons" given for voting Porkens and SpyreX, so I do not vote them.

[fleurdelys]

this is obvious, however, you should try to lynch the scum, don't you think? you need to be active and if you want to show that you're pro-town you need to make us think you're working with us

[kloud1516]

Back from v/la. I will do a reread and jump back into the game shortly.

[Gorrad]

this is obvious, however, you should try to lynch the scum, don't you think? you need to be active and if you want to show that you're pro-town you need to make us think you're working with us

I do try and lynch scum. I'm just not sure who the scum are yet.

[Biohazard]

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

No it defiantly is active lurking. There has been ton of content in discussion already in the past 14 pages and you find nothing to discuss or contribute. So basically your tactic is to stay out of discussion and not contribute anything at all in fear of "just putting in unnessary posts" in. Everybodies input in discussion is important and if you feel you can't contribute anything in discussion then ask for replacement and stop hindering discussion

.

Same answer I'm giving you from your last post. So basically when you feel like contributing you'll just come into discussion when someone peaks your interset. There's already been ton of discussion on players and people did ton of suspicous things yet nothing peaked your interset and you'll only contribute when you feel like it? This is scummy and even if you did so in another game the same tactic it's lurking and hindering discussion and if this is how you play then I suggest you may want to change your playstyle.

Incorrect. I was interested in pursuing Fleur, and so I was more active until my mind was changed. Right now I don't have anything that could change someone's mind on Porkens or SpyreX, both of whom I find protown, so I'm not interested in cases on them until a point is made that I object to. As it is, the votes seem based either on OMGUS (Fleur's on SpyreX) or on extremely weak logic/WIFOM that has, I believe, been pointed out already (Why would Porkens intentionally fulfill a nonscum mission as scum?).

As things stand, in fact, I would be most suspicious of you, Bio. You seem to be rather singlemindedly pursuing me on a variety of charges that I find to be somewhat lacking. However, even that's not worth my vote on you.

Okay...? So basically you feel that the major cases on people are pro-town. Okay fair enough but you've been lurking throughout discussion and now when someone calls your out you suddenly become more active. Instead of just finding people pro-town then doing nothing how about try to scumhunt in discussion and not just wait until someone slips up and does something scummy and jump on it. Also you have stated you pursued Fleur and were more active which I find to be untrue mainly because you just stated one reason which was the newbie card and lurked throughout the entire discussion until someone pressured you and then you came out and seemingly changed your mind about her. Also to add on your point on Porkens on why would he do that if he was scum. I've already stated it as WIFOM and it is. I'm not trying to prove that I am 100% right but if you look closely and read my case on him you'd see why you can't assume hes automatically town just because of a WIFOM statement in which states "He wouldn't do that as scum" which can be applied with "He wouldn't do that as town"

Now you state your suspicious of me because i've been single mindengly pursuing you? If you noticed I've been pursuing several cases on people and not just locking onto one specific target. If you find my "charges lacking" then you are free to think that but I however see some overdefenseivness on your part (becoming suddenly suspicious of me because I pressured you and find my post lacking of any solid content agaisnt you)

[Gorrad]

I'm not assuming Porkens is town, but a WIFOM case is simply not enough for me to vote him. And please, read through my other games before calling this out as anti-town behavior on my part. If anything, I'm more active as scum because more things are of a direct interest to me. Also, I stated previously that points on me that you have made were BS (215). I jump on things that are scummy and defend myself when pressed. That's how I play the game, and my record supports that. This is far from the first time this 'case' has been made against me.