Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[Tarhalindur]

"But this…this, this, this is like… being nibbled to death by, uh…Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet…go 'quack'."
"Cats."
"Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats." - Londo Mollari and Vir Cotto

Let's hope this Vote Count is correct. It would be a nice change. - Tar

The Eighteenth Vote Count (aka the "A Voice In the Wilderness, Part 2" Vote Count):

Vote Count:

VisMaior (0)
Empking (0)
malthusis (1) - cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer)
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon) (0)
Knight of Cydonia (rep. Cybele) (3) - MafiaSSK, pacman281292, dybeck (rep. soaperguy29)
MafiaSSK (1) - Mana_Ku
armlx (0)
Darox (rep. seraphim) (0)
forbiddanlight (0)
populartajo (0)
Mana_Ku (0)
Natirasha (6) - RandomGem, Darox, (rep. seraphim), farside22 (rep. Tovarish), forbiddanlight, veerus, malthusis
veerus (0)
The Internet (0)
DrippingGoofball (0)
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (0)
pacman281292 (0)
RandomGem (0)
hp [leaves] (1) - armlx,
dybeck (rep. soaperguy29) (2) - Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon), Empking
farside22 (rep. Tovarish) (0)

Not Voting (5): VisMaior, Knight of Cydonia (rep. Cybele), populartajo, Natirasha, TheInternet, hp [leaves]

Votes required to lynch: 12

FoS Count:

VisMaior (1) - farside22
Empking (1) - veerus
malthusis (1) - armlx
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon) (1) - The Internet
Knight of Cydonia (rep. Cybele) (3) - Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon), Natirasha, veerus
MafiaSSK (1) - malthusis
armlx (1) - VisMaior
Darox (rep. seraphim) (1) - hp [leaves]
forbiddanlight (3) - Empking, Kinetic, veerus
populartajo
Mana_Ku
Natirasha
veerus (1) - Empking
The Internet (1) - Kinetic
DrippingGoofball
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (1) - malthusis
pacman281292 (1) - Kinetic
RandomGem (1) - pacman281292
hp [leaves] (1) - Kinetic
soaperguy21
Tovarish
people pushing this idea (1) - malthusis
Tarhalindur (1) - Kinetic
Mastermind of Sin (1) - Kinetic
Glork (1) - Kinetic
Lucky Charms (The Cereal) (2) - Kinetic, RandomGem

Current and Final Deadline:

October 31, 2008 at ~6:00 P.M. (GMT -6)

[dybeck]

There's really nothing wrong with either claim, that I can see.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm still reading through, so I don't really have an opinion on the claim yet.

[farside22]

Hi. Posting so I won't be prodded. I'm a bit behind at the moment. I will get on this game today.

[VisMaior]

I think pacman is neutral. He is acting protown, but his reluctance to do the plan suggests to me he has problems with raceclaiming.

[farside22]

Okay I caught up. I'm not sure what to think of the race claim. I feel like it will be out guessing the mod on what means what if there are so many races. Plus if someone was to tell me that that race is anti town and I know I'm town how do I defend something I dont' understand.
Honestly the race thing of this game is over my head because I don't watch the show really.

[Kinetic]

Sorry, I've been meaning to post, I've got two exams over the next two days and they're kicking my ass. I'll try to respond quickly...

First, Darox, what you're saying won't happen during the day because of reasons already discussed. I'd go back and find them, but I don't have the time. They've been brought up and disputed.

As for why that wouldn't happen during the night, well, there are reasons why this can't happen... but going into the too much might tip my hand... >> I have thought of your concerns though, and I definitely have a counter for them, but explaining exactly how that works is... tricky...

[Empking]

Has your "people who support/oppose Kinetic's plan" list changed yet?

[armlx]

I think pacman is neutral. He is acting protown, but his reluctance to do the plan suggests to me he has problems with raceclaiming.

Why does that imply neutral over scum?

[pacman281292]

I think pacman is neutral. He is acting protown, but his reluctance to do the plan suggests to me he has problems with raceclaiming.

I don't have problems with raceclaiming. If it's down to raceclaim, I don't care of when to claim (first, last... no matter). I think that raceclaim is pointless and might divide the town.
Why do you think I'm neutral? Because I don't like raceclaiming? then, OMGOMGOMG! WE HAVE 8 NEUTRALS! MOST WEIRD SETUP EVER!

[Natirasha]

When did we ever say 8 neutrals?

I'm certainly not "neutral", I just have a preference for one mafia

(You hear me, Vorlons?)

. hp is the opposite. I'm fairly sure there is at least one survivor(because there not being one makes us pretty much a strictly easier to win town. That's one(three if you count us, I guess).

[armlx]

I'm fairly sure there is at least one survivor(because there not being one makes us pretty much a strictly easier to win town.

This is my issue with your role. Town usually kills survivors anyways.

[Natirasha]

I'm fairly sure there is at least one survivor(because there not being one makes us pretty much a strictly easier to win town.

This is my issue with your role. Town usually kills survivors anyways.

Yes, but you don't have to kill it to win. I do.

[pacman281292]

When did we ever say 8 neutrals?

I'm certainly not "neutral", I just have a preference for one mafia

(You hear me, Vorlons?)

. hp is the opposite. I'm fairly sure there is at least one survivor(because there not being one makes us pretty much a strictly easier to win town. That's one(three if you count us, I guess).

VisMaior said that I was neutral because I looked protown and I was against the raceclaim; There are 8 people against raceclaim. So, using that crappy logic, there are 8 neutrals. And it's, either a weird game, or impossible.

[armlx]

Yes, but you don't have to kill it to win. I do.

I realize. But killing survivors is more or less default as town as mafia hide under that blanket way too well to let any known survivors live, and usually survivors aren't in a good situation to fake claim away a potential lynch. So the odds of a low number of survivors living through the game makes your WC more or less strictly easier then the towns. So, there has to be a lot of survivors relative to the design space of the game for your WC to work out.

This assumes the standard vanilla survivor only though, but I can't see how survivor power roles would be a good design.

[Tarhalindur]

"It's some guy's fantasy. A love hungry red-head who will disappear in the morning never to be seen again!"
"I'm sorry Dodger, what were you saying?"
"It's a good thing I'm only here another hour or so, cupcake. Two weeks of this, I'd kill you." - Dodger and Michael Garibaldi

I'll hand out prods if needed tomorrow. - Tar

The Nineteenth Vote Count (aka the "Babylon Squared" Vote Count):

Vote Count:

VisMaior (0)
Empking (0)
malthusis (1) - cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer)
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon) (0)
Knight of Cydonia (rep. Cybele) (3) - MafiaSSK, pacman281292, dybeck (rep. soaperguy29)
MafiaSSK (1) - Mana_Ku
armlx (0)
Darox (rep. seraphim) (0)
forbiddanlight (0)
populartajo (0)
Mana_Ku (0)
Natirasha (6) - RandomGem, Darox, (rep. seraphim), farside22 (rep. Tovarish), forbiddanlight, veerus, malthusis
veerus (0)
The Internet (0)
DrippingGoofball (0)
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (0)
pacman281292 (0)
RandomGem (0)
hp [leaves] (1) - armlx,
dybeck (rep. soaperguy29) (2) - Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon), Empking
farside22 (rep. Tovarish) (0)

Not Voting (5): VisMaior, Knight of Cydonia (rep. Cybele), populartajo, Natirasha, TheInternet, hp [leaves]

Votes required to lynch: 12

FoS Count:

VisMaior (1) - farside22
Empking (1) - veerus
malthusis (1) - armlx
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon) (1) - The Internet
Knight of Cydonia (rep. Cybele) (3) - Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon), Natirasha, veerus
MafiaSSK (1) - malthusis
armlx (1) - VisMaior
Darox (rep. seraphim) (1) - hp [leaves]
forbiddanlight (3) - Empking, Kinetic, veerus
populartajo
Mana_Ku
Natirasha
veerus (1) - Empking
The Internet (1) - Kinetic
DrippingGoofball
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (1) - malthusis
pacman281292 (1) - Kinetic
RandomGem (1) - pacman281292
hp [leaves] (1) - Kinetic
soaperguy21
Tovarish
people pushing this idea (1) - malthusis
Tarhalindur (1) - Kinetic
Mastermind of Sin (1) - Kinetic
Glork (1) - Kinetic
Lucky Charms (The Cereal) (2) - Kinetic, RandomGem

Current and Final Deadline:

October 31, 2008 at ~6:00 P.M. (GMT -6)

[MafiaSSK]

Yes, but you don't have to kill it to win. I do.

I realize. But killing survivors is more or less default as town as mafia hide under that blanket way too well to let any known survivors live, and usually survivors aren't in a good situation to fake claim away a potential lynch. So the odds of a low number of survivors living through the game makes your WC more or less strictly easier then the towns. So, there has to be a lot of survivors relative to the design space of the game for your WC to work out.

This assumes the standard vanilla survivor only though, but I can't see how survivor power roles would be a good design.

Why are we caring about the Survivors on day 1? Is it only because of the WCs?

[Kinetic]

Besides hp and Nat there is only one other survivor.

[Natirasha]

Besides hp and Nat there is only one other survivor.

Wait...so because I want to kill survivors, I'm a survivor?

[armlx]

Besides hp and Nat there is only one other survivor.

Hmm. Them each being a "survivor" makes sense.

[dybeck]

When did we ever say 8 neutrals?

I'm certainly not "neutral", I just have a preference for one mafia

(You hear me, Vorlons?)

. hp is the opposite. I'm fairly sure there is at least one survivor(because there not being one makes us pretty much a strictly easier to win town. That's one(three if you count us, I guess).

Hasn't it been established for definite that there's a Shadow group? Or was that more misinformation?

[Darox]

"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange this for me, Mr. Morden?"

Welcome to Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams,

RandomGem

. You are

Vir Cotto

. As an idealistic, if naive, Centauri, you've decided to help in the fight to save Babylon 5.

You are a

Army of Light/Centauri Member

. You have no special abilities.

You win if you fulfill any one (1) of the following win conditions:

Army of Light Win Condition: All Shadow Operatives and Vorlon Operatives must die.

Centauri Win Condition: All Narn and League of Unaligned Worlds players must die.

Please confirm via return PM.

The "All Shadow Operatives" part makes it pretty clear that there is a Shadow group of some kind.

[hp [leaves]]

If I'm a survivor I'll have to commit suicide to win ._.

[Empking]

I think I've worked out a bit of the plan.

I'm now for the race claim.

[Mana_Ku]

OK, you got me in the plan. I absolutely don't see anything which could be said as counter argument.