Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)

[SpyreX]

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Porkens (3): sirdanilot, dahill1, kloud1516
Gorrad (1): Plum
Fleurdelys (1): SpyreX

Not voting (6): CoheedCambria09, wolframnhart, Gorrad, Porkens, fleurdelys, Biohazard

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

So you are just claiming to prove yourself as town?

I'm a little confused. The scum as you said would most likely try to nightkill the vig (you)

so why proclaim your role. As I see it if your town you would withhold your role as to not out yourself for killing and contiune living to help the town as claiming you had obtained the vig role would most likely get you killed and town loses a power role. The only way I can see if you were confident in claiming role is that if you are scum or have something else in your role. I'm not immediatly assuming this but a little elaboration would help.

Tis the season,
you see part of the reason.

Its not aberrant,
my success apparent.

I was given a soul,
thus obviously a role.

So there was no neighing,
I decided that saying.

Now scum have to scurry,
Because they will worry.

I need only my will,
to send in a kill.

Since obvious power,
I decided to shower.

And you know my prize,
hence no surprise.

If on the morrow,
two bodies find sorrow.

[Biohazard]

Wow can't believe I didn't figure it out before. I understand what your getting at and it's an intersting thing at that. Going to have to think about this.

[SpyreX]

I'm glad you can see,
Sometimes its hard for me.

To try to explain,
without causing myself pain.

[SpyreX]

Is it my hair?
Did that scare?

Everyone is gone,
it seems for so long.

Get on the tour,
lets start lynching Fleur!

[Porkens]

This strikes me as odd and suspicous.

1. Porkens didn't even consult with town consenus and stated the name anyways even though the town in the past suggested to not state the name until people could trust Sprye X.

2. He basically went with his own instinct and went agaisnt town favor to state the name not even thinking about the consquences.

3. At the very least if you find someone pro-town and wanted to say it then consulting the town about it would of been the logical thing to do and you just doing on your own accord.

1. Okay, really, this isn't OMGUS, I promise:

FoS Biohazard

for parroting what 3 other people have already said (the third habving already been called out for parroting) about 'consulting the town.'

1.b. So here's some defense: If I were scum, why would I take the risk of giving SpyreX a completed mission bonus JUST to cast suspicion on myself? I know this question could be WIFOM but I think it's worth bringing up anyway. I can see very little benefit to it unless both myself and SpyreX are scum, other than a little, LITTLE bit of "garnering town points." But that's still a big maybe, because I don't think I would have risked the benefits of his completed mission, and, clearly, it DIDN'T garner me any town points anyway :p I think once this game is done, we will see that the scum were the ones MOST cautious about completing Spy's mission.

2. As I said before; I did think about the consequences, and I decided they were worth the risks. No, again, I didn't ask any of you for permission, I used my own judgment. Part of that was so the scum WOULDN'T have a voice in the decision.

This does not nessecarly mean he's town. Also what I find peculiar about this is that he's outing himself as a powerrole. Wouldn't it be best if he was town to keep concealed as to not out himself for the night?

I agree with SpyreX that claiming was the best idea. As Spy himself already said, kinda; If he didn't claim I can see two outcomes: A) The scum kills him because they know he completed a mission, and B) The scum doesn't kill him and the town gets paranoid about two bodies lying there. This way, the scum almost has to kill him tonight, and, depending on how the timing works (simultaneously, I hope), he still gets a shot at nailing a scum in return.

Porkens just said again soon after he saw that he had spelt it wrong. And the mission presumably was completed anyways so there's really no reason to keep grasping at straws here Fleur.

Thank you for explaining this out loud. I couldn't find the words, myself.

... possible vote for porkens coming.

How's that vote commin along? Or are you waiting to see what others do first?

Oh, and

vote: dahill1

[fleurdelys]

Spyrex, I am so tired of You shouting to lynch me- go and lynch me if you want. i would just like to hear why aren't you thinking of anybody else, only me and if you have any questions for me, i would be happy to answer. but the problem with you is, you only say "yeah, she is a scum, look at her scummy actions, her role might have been made up (of course), and so is her mission (fair enough) so let's lynch her!', but even if they are made up, I think that is the only thing I can do. Claim it. I can promise if you want:P but will it be more persuasive? I don't think so.

[Biohazard]

This strikes me as odd and suspicous.

1. Porkens didn't even consult with town consenus and stated the name anyways even though the town in the past suggested to not state the name until people could trust Sprye X.

2. He basically went with his own instinct and went agaisnt town favor to state the name not even thinking about the consquences.

3. At the very least if you find someone pro-town and wanted to say it then consulting the town about it would of been the logical thing to do and you just doing on your own accord.

1. Okay, really, this isn't OMGUS, I promise:

FoS Biohazard

for parroting what 3 other people have already said (the third habving already been called out for parroting) about 'consulting the town.'

1.b. So here's some defense: If I were scum, why would I take the risk of giving SpyreX a completed mission bonus JUST to cast suspicion on myself? I know this question could be WIFOM but I think it's worth bringing up anyway. I can see very little benefit to it unless both myself and SpyreX are scum, other than a little, LITTLE bit of "garnering town points." But that's still a big maybe, because I don't think I would have risked the benefits of his completed mission, and, clearly, it DIDN'T garner me any town points anyway :p I think once this game is done, we will see that the scum were the ones MOST cautious about completing Spy's mission.

2. As I said before; I did think about the consequences, and I decided they were worth the risks. No, again, I didn't ask any of you for permission, I used my own judgment. Part of that was so the scum WOULDN'T have a voice in the decision.

Okay? I guess I'm suspicous because I just stated whatever everybody else said so I'm just trying to add suspicion on you That I don't really care about but your statements is intersting. Your first statement

"If I were scum, why would I take the risk of giving SpyreX a completed mission bonus JUST to cast suspicion on myself?

is pure WIFOM. It's basically stating "Hey why would I do that if I were scum it would be ridiculous so only a townie would do that" Automatically a person can't just forget about and think "Well scum wouldn't do that so he's town" because the same could be applied "Scum could do that and he's trying to act townie" In fact you even stated yourself that it might be WIFOM so why even state it if you know it is? WIFOM is not the best of defenses and it get's in a debate about what would scum or town would do which would prove useless. Your other statement

"I think once this game is done, we will see that the scum were the ones MOST cautious about completing Spy's mission"

is also WIFOM. We can't assume already that scum would be the most cautious because it can be also be applied "town would be cautious as well" so your statement here is just to say that "only scum would be cautious to say the name" which again applies that you must be town because of your WIFOM arguements. Your last statement about going on your own judgement is ridiculous. Why go on your own without at least getting everybody elses take on it to see if your going to make the right decision. I'm not saying "If town says don't do it then don't do and wait for them to tell you what to do" but at the very least discuss on why you find it a good idea and confirm with everybody elses view to see if it is a good idea or not as to not just think to yourself without any comments and thinking your decision is right. This statement "

Part of that was so the scum WOULDN'T have a voice in the decision."

There is also town here to discuss it and we can look at later actions to see if someone is scum for their actions is discussion. Any discussion can help the town even if scum are involved in misleading.

Your arguement is WIFOM and your action for going on your own is erratic and blind.

Vote:Porkens

[wolframnhart]

@Porkens

why the dahill1 vote?

[fleurdelys]

I agree with Biohazard on his statement on Porkens. I became suspicious also after he claimed that scummy wouldn't do it. it's like a double lie- he wouldn't do it as a scummy, so we think he is town, and it might appear he is only trying to act townie.
Also, I don't like the fact that Spyrex is so desperate to draw your attention on me, obviously because it is about me, but also because he is strong in his claims, however, not giving any specific reasons.
wolf, i have already answered your question on the previous page

[wolframnhart]

@Fleur

What question? You did answer the previous one then the very last one that i asked, that you have not answered, was when did SpyreX call you stupid? The only thing i can think of is you might have the other game we are in mixed up.

[fleurdelys]

Maybe you're right:p two is too many games for me. is the question you're asking me :"when spyrex called me stupid?"

[wolframnhart]

for this game yes.

[fleurdelys]

"This logic hurts,
how does it work? "
this is when

[wolframnhart]

thats going a little far to say that SpyreX is calling you stupid, seems a bit of over exaggeration to me on your part, but you are not really voting him because of it so *shrug* guess there is no real harm done.

[SpyreX]

Are the reasons for votes,
due to his boasts?

It's not divine,
to just dismiss as wine.

There is a place for conjecture,
I know you dont need this lecture.

I dont think he's dumb,
so if Porkens is scum.

He's got the wheel,
with balls of steel.

Unless in your spying,
you think I am lying

If that is the habit,
this is a bad scum gambit.

I agree with Biohazard on his statement on Porkens. I became suspicious also after he claimed that scummy wouldn't do it. it's like a double lie- he wouldn't do it as a scummy, so we think he is town, and it might appear he is only trying to act townie.
Also, I don't like the fact that Spyrex is so desperate to draw your attention on me, obviously because it is about me, but also because he is strong in his claims, however, not giving any specific reasons.
wolf, i have already answered your question on the previous page

Its a slap in the face,
to say I have no case.

See my exasperation,
when you say desperation.

Your case I'll explain,
if i need to again.

Although not prolific,
your scummy is specific.

Gorrad, can You just tell me why you want eliminate me so quickly? It doesn't seen a revenge for I didn't vote for You and at the same time you seem to really want me gone-what is the reason?

Why would you worry,
from a single vote scurry?

I am so sorry Biohazard, but my new tactic is to remain quiet. I think I am confused with what i said, and it makes sense to me. This is what I though:
1. From Spyrex rhymes I thought I know his character in grimm tales, and reckoned it was a good character, yes pro-town, and I should defend him
2. why should i defend him? just because people were saying he shouldn't be trusted so early at this stage- so i thought i would make him stay
3. after reading your assumptions of what his character is, i lost my trace and stopped acting enthusiastic about it
4.

i'm done cause i got the greatest amount of votes

This is no reason,
for your treason.

SpyreX, don't worry about me-i'm the one who talks more then anybody here, so it's bad to judge if shutting up would be a bad idea in my case. it's weird that the players did not think about my role at all.

What if my death means that all the town dies?

I ball up my fist,
there's no reason for this.

I think its contrived,
so you would survive.

And if its just squawking,
there's no need for this talking.

i can only say that you should save me. i don't know if i can reveal my role, i don't think i can.;

however, it is highly important for the townies but important for scums as well

. this is why you should give me a chance

I'll take a drink,
why would you think?

I can't abide,
a role for both sides.

What? Should I say what my role is-is that what You mean? I'm afraid I might be killed during the night if I reveal it. or is there a doctor to defend me every single night?

See what you're wishing?
A little role fishing.

i am important for scum, because i am an important player in the game-as i said,

what if they kill me and this means they win the whole game?

even if not, as a member of town i would hate being killed as an important member-for town's sake
that's why i felt uncomfortable with revealing my character earlier, and asked for the doctor to take care of me during nights

See my disdain,
it was brought up again.

But it says "town" in my role description i gave you

I'm no heel,
this is simply appeal.

i never stated that if i die, the town lose-i said what if
Its not just a few votes-i got like four and only three people haven't voted yet so it is quiet clear who will be done

As I start to attack,
the pedal moves back.

i don't see sense in revealing everything, for you'll get everything after i;'m done, aren't you? what's the point-you'll be surprised.

Guys are you serious,
there

no reason

for mysterious.

The problem is, after revealing my mission you'll think i'm being scummy again. i can tell my mission is about checking which player have a slipper i found as a prince. does it make you not voting for me?

Why is it bad,
the mission you had?

I don't think he does put words in my mouth,

quite a few times i said that i never claimed that my role is that important

, i said i was only asking you what if-look at my posts just before claiming and after claiming my role

I'm not going to try.

This is a lie.

1. Well, I don't see a scum being so obvious about his/her mission on Day 1 since he doesn't know what his outcome is and it'll probably be pretty obvious.

2. SpyreX has been consistent with his opinion of Fleur, and hasn't sent any red-scum flags up for me.

2. I'd like to get an idea of what the mission outcomes are, and day 1 is a good day to do that.

Porkens, you weren't that creative either throughout the games, and I might even say that for me your reasons for say spyrex name are unconvincing;

especially second one- if he doesn't vote for you, he must be pro-town? what?

This looks like twisting,
to keep your vote persisting.

Since in my head,
thats not what he said.

Now it is different- Spyrex was pointing me desperately for a quite a long time, although I was ignoring it. This time he strongly suggests that I am a scum, but he actually never says why he thinks so. His tone is though really strong, and I don't like it.

You act like I'm quiet,
I've never tried to hide it.

Just because I hate being pointed at constantly by somebody who completely ignores my arguments, never comments on them, instead simply calls me stupid- makes me scummy. fair enough.
I'm not saying that Porkens did not write a lot, I'm just saying that he did not tried ever to save himself, explain, he was quiet intolerant about what we think of him, don't you think? However, he is not that scummy for me, and that's why i unvoted him. also, i have never voted for spyrex, i'm still thinking about my votes.

What a bore,
you say

I

would ignore.

I've commented upon,
all the things that have gone.

Spyrex, I am so tired of You shouting to lynch me- go and lynch me if you want. i would just like to hear why aren't you thinking of anybody else, only me and if you have any questions for me, i would be happy to answer. but the problem with you is, you only say "yeah, she is a scum, look at her scummy actions, her role might have been made up (of course), and so is her mission (fair enough) so let's lynch her!',

but even if they are made up, I think that is the only thing I can do.

Claim it. I can promise if you want:P but will it be more persuasive? I don't think so.

This doesn't make sense,
hence consequence.

I dont care if its mean,
in pages thirteen

This much you've managed,
to cause that is damage.

Its no mistake,
I think it is fake.

That makes statements more clear,
And explains all your fear.

As an aside,
lurkers need to not hide.

Come join in the fun,
It has begun!

[sirdanilot]

Spyrex, you've said already that you think fleur is scum, but what do you think about porkens. What is your opinion on the porkens case, which I started, and the reactions of other people to it?

I know it's a bit hard for you to post a lot of information like that, but I must say that you've done pretty well so far, you've been really creative. If you are really the vig, then I think it'd be good for you to stray away a bit from your tunnel vision on fleur.

[SpyreX]

And that was it. 2 serious posts throughout the entire game, including one opportunistic vote, and one quick unvote after the claim. I am not liking this, so I am going to put some pressure on porkens.

Consdering her action,
I find no infraction.

I am not meek,
the case feels weak.

Page 8: Okay. Fleur has to find a certain character, basically.
Alright. In my opinion, our best course of action is not to lynch fleur until we have more information. Fleur has to find a certain character, and maybe it'd be bad for the town if we kill her (or that character). And yes, it can be bad for the scum too, but I still think that we're better off lynching someone else first. It's like a power role, really. For example, if someone claims tracker, you never know if they're a scum or a town tracker, but would anyone here lynch a claimed tracker day 1? I don't think so. I think we should apply this rule here as well. Mind you, I have mostly played mini normals up to now so I'm not sure if this is the correct course of action in a mini theme game.

If I may demur,
why so pro-fleur.

Characters abound,
on each of us found.

I know it's a bit hard for you to post a lot of information like that, but I must say that you've done pretty well so far, you've been really creative. If you are really the vig, then I think it'd be good for you to stray away a bit from your tunnel vision on fleur.

I cant help but smirking,
with half the game lurking.

My opinions are known,
and they are shown.

Lets turn this about,
who do you scout?

[dahill1]

sorry hadn't gotten the time to post lately
i'm gonna assume porken's vote is OMGUS unless he explains it
honestly, i know this has been the situation pretty much all game, but i find myself completely agreeing with biohazard again. porken's argument is WIFOM although he did make a good point about coheed. coheed, thoughts? bigger post (hopefully) coming tonight

[CoheedCambria09]

@ Porkins, I would also like to know why there is a seemingly random (unless I missed something) vote on dahill at the end of your post.

Also @Porkins: As biohazard already pointed out, you riddled your defense paragraph with so much WIFOM that it just makes you look scummier in my books. You said you didnt want to have discussion because then scum could get their opinion in, but, we all know that the town is outnumbering the scum. So by using discussion, yes, we probly would have heard from some scum, but we would also hear from the town, whose the majority.

[CoheedCambria09]

EBWOP: I was writing my post when dahill was writing his. I've already commented on the whole trust thing. But to re-itterate, I do not fully trust Spyrex, not even close.

[Plum]

Hello friends, I'm back, have skimmed what I miss, will hopefully do a more in-depth reread tonight and perhaps post.

[SpyreX]

I'm stuck in traction,
lets see some action!

[fleurdelys]

I do not trust SpyreX either, and it is not only because he votes on me. Also, he is quite desperate and strong in his voting, and at the moment when everybody's analizing the situation, he could analize it with u, instead his posts are very general. However, it is not enough for me to vote on him, so i probably stick to Porkens

[sirdanilot]

And that was it. 2 serious posts throughout the entire game, including one opportunistic vote, and one quick unvote after the claim. I am not liking this, so I am going to put some pressure on porkens.

Consdering her action,
I find no infraction.

I am not meek,
the case feels weak.

Why? Why do you think he's entitled to just hop on the fleur bandwagon like that, while he's never posted seriously before? Just because you are that convinced fleur is scum? What if she isn't? You are just assuming that she's scum.

Also, I'm going to throw out something hypothetical here. Assume fleur-scum and porkens-scum. Do you think that it would have been unlikely for prokens-scum to have voted fleur-scum? I actually don't think so. So we can disregard fleur's alignment in this, Porkens simply did something scummy.

Page 8: Okay. Fleur has to find a certain character, basically.
Alright. In my opinion, our best course of action is not to lynch fleur until we have more information. Fleur has to find a certain character, and maybe it'd be bad for the town if we kill her (or that character). And yes, it can be bad for the scum too, but I still think that we're better off lynching someone else first. It's like a power role, really. For example, if someone claims tracker, you never know if they're a scum or a town tracker, but would anyone here lynch a claimed tracker day 1? I don't think so. I think we should apply this rule here as well. Mind you, I have mostly played mini normals up to now so I'm not sure if this is the correct course of action in a mini theme game.

If I may demur,
why so pro-fleur.

Characters abound,
on each of us found.

Fleur has to find someone. Don't you find it a bit unlikely that a mafia-aligned player would have to find his buddy?

I know it's a bit hard for you to post a lot of information like that, but I must say that you've done pretty well so far, you've been really creative. If you are really the vig, then I think it'd be good for you to stray away a bit from your tunnel vision on fleur.

I cant help but smirking,
with half the game lurking.

My opinions are known,
and they are shown.

Lets turn this about,
who do you scout?

The only opinion that is known is about fleur. When I asked you about porkens, you managed to give an answer that's simply untrue, and with all my other attempts to get you to talk about someone or something not called 'fleur' amount in you evading the question and redirecting it back to fleur.

You know very well where my suspicions lie. Mostly on porkens. And the more I am conversing with you, the more I have the feeling that you are using your PR to avoid my questions.

[fleurdelys]

Not only me then noticed that Spyrex is not giving enough, and that he is redirecting questions about other users, only focusing on me.
Because it is not only me who thinks he is being suspicious,

VOTE: SpyreX