Mini 2251: Triplicate! GAME OVER!

[Titus]

@Amy/RR

Who is town in Alyssa/House?

[mastina]

Okay it's too late for me to go into the details tonight, but (hopefully) tomorrow, I intend to:
-Explain why I don't think Amy Dunne is scum (play yesterday, seeing myself in her, thinking my scumread was wrong, lack of scumbuddies)
-Explain why I think that House IS scum (play stuff)
-Explain why I think that RR is scum (the G1 scum PT treatment actually being evidence

against

them not for them which I know I'll need to explain to Titus since she'll assume the opposite, Titus being alive, ease of the claim being scum, play stuff)
-Explain why I don't think Alyssa's slot is scum (play stuff)

But in the mean time:

Game Two Neighborhood PT Members:

can you paraphrase the entirety of the PT?
Additionally, I would like to hear the thoughts of the dead townies there; they should still be solving for who the scum is.
In particular, I want their thoughts now, and after I give my cases above to see if they change their stances, find flaws in my logic, etc.

Titus, RR:

can you paraphrase your scum PT from game 1 start to finish?

You may note: no vote here.
Because while I'm

pretty

sure that my evidence does implicate RR + House as the scumteam, I'm not

absolutely

sure to the point of being so confident I'd vote. And even were I, RR would deserve the opportunity to defend themselves, and the G2 PT members if they think RR to be town deserve the chance to explain their belief there.

[House]

VOTE: RadicalRat

I don't buy the story.

Like scum is going to just let an outed investigative claim live AND get results?

Nah fam.

[House]

mastina stinks of scum, too.

Nobody familiar with my play thinks I detach as scum. I live to play scum.

[House]

Game Two Neighborhood PT Members: can you paraphrase the entirety of the PT?

I'm way too lazy to do that.

[mastina]

mastina stinks of scum, too.

I don't lie about my role, yet alone claim to be an alignment that I'm not. (And the proof that I was breadcrumbing 3p before D2 is plenty present, too, so you can't claim that it was bullshit I made up after the result.)

I

am

nontown in that I

am

third party, but that's actually the reason why I think you're scum:

The town needs me in order to win now since they can't vote out scum without me, but that wasn't the case yesterday. I admit to some selfishness in not having mentioned it at the time (while I am altruistic in wanting to win with the town, I am not an idiot) but yesterday the town had a safe option to eliminate: me. You had one mislim to spare. I was, explicitly, claimed nontown. I was, explicitly, not going to flip town, so it was guaranteed that my death would not be a town death.

Now, granted. I, personally, know that I am not scum, and that my 3p claim is legitimate. I, personally, know that I need two scum dead in order for me to win. I, personally, know that I need to scumhunt and need to work with the town in order to have a chance at winning.

But only I, personally, know these things.

The town does not know that I am not scum bullshitting a 3p claim. (It

should

be obvious, but there's no explicit CONFIRMATION beyond my meta strongly suggesting so.)
The town does not know that I need two scum dead in order to win.
The town does not know that I need to scumhunt.
The town does not know that I need to work with the town to have a chance at winning.

The town, explicitly, only has my word and my word alone at those being true. And while I, personally, know them to be true, the town does not.

So if the town wanted to eliminate me, they had ample opportunity to have done so yesterday. Doing so would've confirmed that I am not scum bullshitting a 3p claim; doing so would've confirmed I needed two scum dead in order to win; doing so would've confirmed that I needed to scumhunt, and thus, that all of my reads were valid and shouldn't be ignored as 3p with an agenda. (Since while I do have an agenda of surviving to the end of the game, I need two scum dead as part of that agenda meaning that I need to scumhunt.)

...So why did nobody suggest my elimination yesterday?

It didn't crop up so much as once.

Why didn't RR suggest it? Radical Rat is a mechanics-oriented player, after all, and the mechanical advantages of eliminating a guaranteed not-town slot shouldn't have escaped them.

Why didn't you suggest it, House? You said it yourself:

I always call for the death of any 3p because they count against town majority.

You know this.

You always call for the death of any 3p because they count against town majority.

So why didn't you call for my death yesterday?

Why, when the town had a mislim to spare, didn't you suggest eliminating the third party who in your own logic would count against town majority?

You didn't push anything at all.

You were passive.

You went with the flow.

You never argued against the town plan. You just went along with it.

Which is not the town House I know. When have you ever been passive as town? When have you ever not pushed your stances even when they went against those of the entire town? You literally pushed for my elimination in a game where you

suspected

I was third party when you were town; in this game, I outright claimed it and not once have you voted me.

[House]

You have no authority on my alignment, mastina.

You've demonstrated numerous times that you can't read me for shit, and this pretending that you can bullshit is exactly the problem I have work you.

You told me yourself that you couldn't read me anymore like you used to, and now you're claiming to suddenly know how I play, when anyone who actually DOES know how I play, knows that I don't check out from games as scum.

Fuck, I even forgot you were 3p. Does scum just space that kinda of shit? Seriously?

Feck off. I'm done with you.

[House]

You have no authority on my alignment, mastina.

You've demonstrated numerous times that you can't read me for shit, and this pretending that you can bullshit is exactly the problem I have with you.

You told me yourself that you couldn't read me anymore like you used to, and now you're claiming to suddenly know how I play, when anyone who actually DOES know how I play, knows that I don't check out from games as scum.

Fuck, I even forgot you were 3p. Does scum just space that kinda of shit? Seriously?

Feck off. I'm done with you.

Edit.

[Titus]

@mastina, I have to partially refuse your request to summarize the PT. I'm still considering whether or not the T3 kill implicates RR but I don't think it does.

The important, revealable details are outed.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: RadicalRat

I don't buy the story.

Like scum is going to just let an outed investigative claim live AND get results?

Nah fam.

Killing me would have actually been the worst move for scum to make. Which is partially why I was so presumptive about getting results and structuring the wagon.

T3's confirmation was contingent on me being Town, so my flip solidifies that.
Further, we'd already established that my claim creates an Amy vs. Dunn 1v1, so if I flip Town, there should be no opposition to eliminating Amy.
People were already skeptical of my claim, and Dunn's townflip is obviously not a great look, so mislimming me is viable.

[Titus]

@mastina, why doesn't your passive/didn't push you rationale also apply to Alyssa?

[Radical Rat]

Why didn't RR suggest it? Radical Rat is a mechanics-oriented player, after all, and the mechanical advantages of eliminating a guaranteed not-town slot shouldn't have escaped them.

Because the nature of your role and circumstances of your claim make it pretty apparent that you aren't lying.

Meanwhile, I was very confident on Dunn flipping scum, so yeah I thought it would be better to eliminate the actual scum slot instead of the 3P with a mechanical incentive to townside who has a remote chance of lying.

[Radical Rat]

@Amy/RR

Who is town in Alyssa/House?

As of right now I would guess House.

[Titus]

Why didn't RR suggest it? Radical Rat is a mechanics-oriented player, after all, and the mechanical advantages of eliminating a guaranteed not-town slot shouldn't have escaped them.

Because the nature of your role and circumstances of your claim make it pretty apparent that you aren't lying.

Meanwhile, I was very confident on Dunn flipping scum, so yeah I thought it would be better to eliminate the actual scum slot instead of the 3P with a mechanical incentive to townside who has a remote chance of lying.

Why are you supposing mastina is town, knowing what you know? Amy/mastina is a possible team fypov no?

[Radical Rat]

Why didn't RR suggest it? Radical Rat is a mechanics-oriented player, after all, and the mechanical advantages of eliminating a guaranteed not-town slot shouldn't have escaped them.

Because the nature of your role and circumstances of your claim make it pretty apparent that you aren't lying.

Meanwhile, I was very confident on Dunn flipping scum, so yeah I thought it would be better to eliminate the actual scum slot instead of the 3P with a mechanical incentive to townside who has a remote chance of lying.

Why are you supposing mastina is town, knowing what you know? Amy/mastina is a possible team fypov no?

It is, but mastina softed incredibly early, and hardclaimed not much later, and I wouldn't expect scum to lock themselves into a claim so early on, especially a claim that has a solid chance of just getting themselves eliminated anyway.

Plus, there's the fact that her existence as 3P is a nerf to the wagon analysis, which is honestly still too strong as-is.

[Titus]

Explain why I think that RR is scum (the G1 scum PT treatment actually being evidence against them not for them which I know I'll need to explain to Titus since she'll assume the opposite, Titus being alive, ease of the claim being scum, play stuff)
-Explain why I don't think Alyssa's slot is scum (play stuff)

I'll hear you out, but I feel your complaint will likely resonate on deaf ears for reasons you're unfamiliar with.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Titus

How much of this play was for your Game A wincon and how much was for your Game B wincon?

[Titus]

Titus

How much of this play was for your Game A wincon and how much was for your Game B wincon?

This play is vague.

I'm thinking A50 played for Game A for *reasons* that I was too slow to catch on subbing in.
I've played for both.

If you're referring to letting RR live, both games. RR doesn't claim UB in the scum PT as scum.

[Titus]

We should be massclaiming imo but my claim is still best hidden, so I'm not sure what to do about that.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm referring to the claim in Game B

How much of this was specifically planned out to happen the way it did?

Because I don't see how this is a mech solve in the slightest

[Radical Rat]

We should be massclaiming imo but my claim is still best hidden, so I'm not sure what to do about that.

At this point, I don't think scum can really do anything about you regardless, unless I'm missing something here.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ftr mastina

I strongly doubt anyone other than me has any interest in what you have to say about the game, so you're very unlikely to get anywhere from trying to convince anyone else of anything

I do still want to talk things out with you a bit, especially since you know more about mech stuff than I do

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm mostly interested in sorting Titus one way or another, since that's ultimately what solves the game for me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also I will paraphrase the neighborhood tonight, I'm at work all day

[Titus]

I'm referring to the claim in Game B

How much of this was specifically planned out to happen the way it did?

Because I don't see how this is a mech solve in the slightest

Cheeky felt pressured D1 and hinted he was a PR. RR said no problem, I'm a UB.

I don't think RR told us he was going to claim.

We got the order wrong for the mech solve I think.