Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[veerus]

pacman.. we're not WC claiming.. we're race claiming in an effort of uniting all the AOL races to go after the scum. (kinda like it went in the series.. good job mod, if that's indeed the idea)

[malthusis]

Actually, it's the other way around veerus. The mod was actually a player in MS2, which makes it seem very unlikely that mod posted that PM and more likely someone else did.

[pacman281292]

raceclaim might make some weird greedy guys go on and screw the game against town.

I assume Kinetic has information that negates this.

@veerus: 1: Whoops, stupid lazy pacman... I meant raceclaim...
2) Wait, so Shadow and Vorlon have no races?
I have no idea; I've never seen the serie this is based in...

[pacman281292]

oops, malth posted inmediately above me... veerus' post I'm speaking about is:

pacman.. we're not WC claiming.. we're race claiming in an effort of uniting all the AOL races to go after the scum. (kinda like it went in the series.. good job mod, if that's indeed the idea)

[forbiddanlight]

Thanks FL Very Happy A role in MS2 died after it's first post but was actually alive and communicated by giving the mod messages to say on it's behalf. Just because the mod said it, I wouldn't exactly be 100% sure that it's the mod's doing. (As in I'm wondering whether someone revealed the true version, or made a fake).

Hey, that was the role

I

got in MS2. I LOVED that role, lol. Even if I handled it horribly. But yes, Lain Iwakura, the Townie that Doesn't Exist was definitely a fun role. I don't think that shenanigan would go on here though, but I pretty much figured this is what you were referring to .

However, you do raise a valid point. What I was thinking is there might a third party role that can post results of investigations or something. Or possibly a scum role that can post their fakeclaim through the mod. I mean, it could be any number of things, which is why I wouldn't cleave 100% to it. For now though, I don't see any reason NOT to believe it.

[armlx]

2) Wait, so Shadow and Vorlon have no races?

Where was this stated/assumed?

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, can I just clarify the next steps of your plan?

1) We vote yay or nay on your plan.
2) If yay, we vote to decide who goes first.
3) That person claims, and they name the next person to claim.
4) Repeat step 3 21 times.
5) You reveal the secret element of your plan.

Have I got it straight in my mind?

That's basically the deal.

malthusis wrote:
Quote:

veerus wrote:
I think RandomGem should decide who should start the claim (if we do this) since his role was officially revealed by the mod's action.


Interesting idea, but it lends itself to the doubt if that is his real role or not. I'm inclined to believe it is his role at this time, but I don't think we can take it as guaranteed until it is guaranteed.



Why are you guys so sure that the mod was behind this?


Umm, the mod posted it... what do you mean?

Thanks FL A role in MS2 died after it's first post but was actually alive and communicated by giving the mod messages to say on it's behalf. Just because the mod said it, I wouldn't exactly be 100% sure that it's the mod's doing. (As in I'm wondering whether someone revealed the true version, or made a fake).

So basically its exactly as I said. There is a possibility that the post is real, and there is a possibility its fake. So... we can't know for sure either way. So deciding anything based on it is premature...

That being said, stop thinking over thinking everything. You and everyone else is just going to out think yourself right out of the truth if you constantly feel the mod is out to get you.

Actually, it's the other way around veerus. The mod was actually a player in MS2, which makes it seem very unlikely that mod posted that PM and more likely someone else did.

I think its pretty obvious that a role of some sort instigated the posting that

the mod

made. What we need to determine is if it was a pro-town role or a scum role. That will tell us if it is true or a deception.

raceclaim might make some weird greedy guys go on and screw the game against town.

I assume Kinetic has information that negates this.

@veerus: 1: Whoops, stupid lazy pacman... I meant raceclaim...
2) Wait, so Shadow and Vorlon have no races?
I have no idea; I've never seen the serie this is based in...

-.-

Everyone has a race.

raceclaim might make some weird greedy guys go on and screw the game against town. That's why I think that we must not WC massclaim. In my opinion, we must only try to ignore the race stuff nowm and possibly make this later.

... First, we have more to be worried about races interfering with the town if no one knows. While we let the possibility of impropriety without consequences, people who are untrustworthy can act with impunity without repercussions. A claim will make it so that people are MORE accountable for their actions, not less.

I'm sorry but this point has been brought up and completely disputed. You're rehashing an argument that holds no water.

Please continue to scum hunt. I'm trying to make your job easier and all you're doing is making mine harder. I never said stop looking for scum. If you haven't gained a whole ton of information thanks to all the discussion this has brought up then you haven't been paying attention.

hmm... the problem is that we are unfocusing discussion with all this stuff. Scum possibly is laughing at us while we run in circles with this claim;

Its Day 1. There has been more discussion, focused, then most day 1s. Additionally, we ARE trying to find scum. If you stopped trying to find scum, that says more about you than anything else.

I don't know how you can think scum is laughing at us, but all I've seen is scummy people acting very very nervous. As for this:

they have no problem with claiming because they can make a true claim and there is no problem.

They have no reason to lie. And?

In my opinion, we must keep hunting through all the stuff we have now, and then go on and keep playing this as a Mafia game.

I'm still playing a mafia game... what are you talking about? This is part of my strategy to catch scum. Most of the stuff we have now we gained because of this discussion. You're making 0 sense. You're jumping from point to point without any logical sense. Its like you're just randomly throwing things out there without deciding if what you're saying even back up the stance you're taking...

FOS:pacman

I'm starting to wonder about you...

However, you do raise a valid point. What I was thinking is there might a third party role that can post results of investigations or something. Or possibly a scum role that can post their fakeclaim through the mod. I mean, it could be any number of things, which is why I wouldn't cleave 100% to it. For now though, I don't see any reason NOT to believe it.

You just gave a reason not to believe it...

[forbiddanlight]

That being said, stop thinking over thinking everything. You and everyone else is just going to out think yourself right out of the truth if you constantly feel the mod is out to get you.

You just gave a reason not to believe it...

Are you saying it's a valid one? I honestly don't think so.

However, I will state that what I meant with that post is judge randomgem on his actions, not what the mod says. I have no reason to disbelieve that is RG's role, since he seems to have been acting townie.

[veerus]

2) Wait, so Shadow and Vorlon have no races?

Where was this stated/assumed?

In the AOL WC.

[pacman281292]

um what?
What do you mean?! I'm not throwing random stuff; I'm throwing my thoughts. And, yeah, possibly I'm missing some things discussed yet, but I don't see how would this discussion help town to catch scum.

Stop saying that I'm not scumhunting; I just think that this discussion is not the best way for going on. I think that it's better if we ignore our secondary WC rather than yelling it. OK?

And also, the scum can have no problem right now; they can just post an "I agree, please personX claim first because blahblahblah", or whatever they want. And yeah, this is discussion, but I think that this kind of discussion is easy for scum, and we must not let the scum screw us.

Organizing my post part-by-part. Please don't say I'm posting random stuff...
Also, my grammar sucks, and I'm tired. Sorry if you can't understand this.

[armlx]

In the AOL WC.

Read again sir.

[Tarhalindur]

"So the next time we find out where the Shadows plan to strike, we can mine the area. And as soon as they come out of hyperspace—"
"Then, as you so concisely say, 'Boom!'" - Susan Ivanova and G'Kar

Cybele is being replaced.

DrippingGoofball is seriously overdue for a prod. This is being rectified. - Tar

The Sixteenth Vote Count (aka the "Legacies" Vote Count):

Vote Count:

VisMaior (0)
Empking (0)
malthusis (1) - cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer)
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon) (3) - Natirasha, VisMaior, DrippingGoofball
Cybele (3) - MafiaSSK, pacman281292, dybeck (rep. soaperguy29)
MafiaSSK (1) - Mana_Ku
armlx (0)
Darox (rep. seraphim) (0)
forbiddanlight (0)
populartajo (0)
Mana_Ku (0)
Natirasha (8) - armlx, RandomGem, Darox, (rep. seraphim), Empking, farside22 (rep. Tovarish), malthusis, forbiddanlight, veerus
veerus (0)
The Internet (0)
DrippingGoofball (0)
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (0)
pacman281292 (0)
RandomGem (0)
hp [leaves] (0)
dybeck (rep. soaperguy29) (1) - Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon)
farside22 (rep. Tovarish) (0)

Not Voting (4): Cybele, populartajo, TheInternet, hp [leaves]

Votes required to lynch: 12

FoS Count:

VisMaior (1) - farside22
Empking (1) - veerus
malthusis (1) - armlx
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon) (2) - Cybele, The Internet
Cybele (3) - Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon), Natirasha, veerus
MafiaSSK (1) - malthusis
armlx (1) - VisMaior
Darox (rep. seraphim) (1) - hp [leaves]
forbiddanlight (3) - Empking, Kinetic, veerus
populartajo
Mana_Ku
Natirasha
veerus (1) - Empking
The Internet (1) - Kinetic
DrippingGoofball
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (1) - malthusis
pacman281292 (1) - Kinetic
RandomGem (1) - pacman281292
hp [leaves] (1) - Kinetic
soaperguy21
Tovarish
people pushing this idea (1) - malthusis
Tarhalindur (1) - Kinetic
Mastermind of Sin (1) - Kinetic
Glork (1) - Kinetic
Lucky Charms (The Cereal) (2) - Kinetic, RandomGem

Current and Final Deadline:

October 31, 2008 at ~6:00 P.M. (GMT -6)

[dybeck]

Kinetic, can I just clarify the next steps of your plan?

1) We vote yay or nay on your plan.
2) If yay, we vote to decide who goes first.
3) That person claims, and they name the next person to claim.
4) Repeat step 3 21 times.
5) You reveal the secret element of your plan.

Have I got it straight in my mind?

That's basically the deal.

And you definitely have some way of telling truth from lies? Because presumably everybody, scum or not, is just going to say 'Army of Light'?

[dybeck]

And also, the scum can have no problem right now; they can just post an "I agree, please personX claim first because blahblahblah", or whatever they want. And yeah, this is discussion, but I think that this kind of discussion is easy for scum, and we must not let the scum screw us.

And this. They're under no pressure whatsoever.

[dybeck]

And

mod, my vote should be on Cybele, not Kinetic.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, can I just clarify the next steps of your plan?

1) We vote yay or nay on your plan.
2) If yay, we vote to decide who goes first.
3) That person claims, and they name the next person to claim.
4) Repeat step 3 21 times.
5) You reveal the secret element of your plan.

Have I got it straight in my mind?

That's basically the deal.

And you definitely have some way of telling truth from lies? Because presumably everybody, scum or not, is just going to say 'Army of Light'?

I can honestly say that anyone who states Army of Light is lying scum.

[MafiaSSK]

Kinetic, can I just clarify the next steps of your plan?

1) We vote yay or nay on your plan.
2) If yay, we vote to decide who goes first.
3) That person claims, and they name the next person to claim.
4) Repeat step 3 21 times.
5) You reveal the secret element of your plan.

Have I got it straight in my mind?

That's basically the deal.

And you definitely have some way of telling truth from lies? Because presumably everybody, scum or not, is just going to say 'Army of Light'?

I can honestly say that anyone who states Army of Light is lying scum.

How come?

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, can I just clarify the next steps of your plan?

1) We vote yay or nay on your plan.
2) If yay, we vote to decide who goes first.
3) That person claims, and they name the next person to claim.
4) Repeat step 3 21 times.
5) You reveal the secret element of your plan.

Have I got it straight in my mind?

That's basically the deal.

And you definitely have some way of telling truth from lies? Because presumably everybody, scum or not, is just going to say 'Army of Light'?

I can honestly say that anyone who states Army of Light is lying scum.

How come?

Because I don't care about your faction WC. If you claim your faction during a RACE CLAIM you're either not paying attention or scum of the highest order. Of course you're going to lie about that if you're scum. Hell even if you're neutral you might lie about it. Nor do I care about your powers. I care about your race, and somewhat of your race WC. There is currently no incentive for scum to lie about it, additionally there are other factors prevalent that if you lie about it it would be bad for the person lying, and bring up questions that are not easily answered.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yikes! I keep forgetting I'm in this game. I'm going to have to treat it as a replacement... hold on. Let me find you the scum.

[hp [leaves]]

It seems like my unvote didn't go through

Unvote

I'm for the race claim plan.

[Kinetic]

Odd... something weird is happening with a lot of the voting... Is tar just being careless?

It's a Tar game - if there AREN'T major errors in vote counts, something is wrong. (Though I have been sloppier in correcting errors than usual.) - Tar

[Kinetic]

That being said, stop thinking over thinking everything. You and everyone else is just going to out think yourself right out of the truth if you constantly feel the mod is out to get you.

You just gave a reason not to believe it...

Are you saying it's a valid one? I honestly don't think so.

However, I will state that what I meant with that post is judge randomgem on his actions, not what the mod says. I have no reason to disbelieve that is RG's role, since he seems to have been acting townie.

Of course its a valid reason... How much weight you put behind it is your own prerogative, but something that can logically happen is definitely valid. You don't put much faith in it, and honestly I don't either right now, but that doesn't mean you should just forget it.

What I can't understand, is if the person who used the ability is pro-town... why RandomGem? That seems very... random. Is the ability itself random? I don't know, from the way the post made it sound it was as if someone requested the information. And weren't there better choices, even that early in the day? Nat, Cybele, you, me? The choice seems... odd.

But just because it seems odd, doesn't mean that there is anything inherently anti-town about it either. It could be the person using the ability was trying to target apparent lurkers. The timing of RandomGem's own post could be that the user noticed his absence and sudden return and asked the question.

Anyway, current tallies on the Claim Initiative.

Role Call so far

Support Plan, unconditionally

8
Kinetic

dybeck

Mafia SSK
VisMaior

dybeck

[hp]leaves
Theinternet
veerus
RandomGem (Counteracts Nat's doesn't count vote with another vote that frankly... doesn't count.)
armlx ,

Cybele

Support Plan, with Kinetic Full Reveal

1
forbiddenlight

Cybele

Do not support Plan

8
dybeck
Empking
Nat (doesn't matter since he already claimed...)
malthusis
populartajo
pacman281292
Mana_Ku
Darox

Undecided

4
Cybele
DrippingGoofball
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer)
farside22 (rep. Tovarish)

Current Tally is 9 for (with reveal), 8 against with it being just the opposite without reveal (8 for, 9 against) with 4 abstaining at this time.

Current Popcorn Claim initiators:
Cybele - 2
Dybeck - 2

[DrippingGoofball]

OK I don't think Kinetic is scum anymore. His behavior reminds me of what I observed in an old NY game where he was town.

unvote

[Empking]

Unvote; Dybeck

He obviously hasn't been reading the thread and is still attacking Kinetic despite that.

[dybeck]

I'm really not attacking Kinetic. I can't get a feeling for any scenario where he's scum.

I'm just not big on his 'plan'.