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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:32 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

Really? Because there are a lot of ambiguities I have not seen answered.

Why did you vote Moses, citing as your evidence for voting him a bandwagon/pressure vote, when Moses had no votes at the time, and you didn't give any reason for wanting to pressure Moses?

Why did you unvote him after nothing had happened?

Why did you arbitrarily commend RBT's play when it has not been all the great in the opinions of other players? Why RBT specifically, why at the time, what specifically (i.e. examples) about his play has been good?

Why do you ask me for discourse when you don't provide it yourself? Why do you accuse me of lynching you with no evidence when you claim that I have said stuff (but it's already been explained)?

In fact, the only thing you have answered is

Something new:
Santos wrote:The claim for having a mason and NOT knowing the other mason's alignment bugs me.
Santos wrote: Maybe because I have a very similar role to what you two have claimed.
Your role PM better say that your buddy is confirmed, or I'm probably not taking my vote off you. I'm not really sure how you can be bugged by someone having your own role.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:46 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

STD, he has already said that he doesn't know his mason buddy's alignment.
Santos (282) wrote:
Santos, can you definately say that you don't know the alignment of your mason buddy and that they don't know yours? If this is the case, I don't see any reason to reveal any more information right now.
I can definitely say that we do not know each others' alignment. Furthermore, I have not even contacted said mason yet because it is not night, obviously; and I have no idea what we would talk about anyway.
Santos, what exactly were you talking about here:
Santos wrote: The claim for having a mason and NOT knowing the other mason's alignment bugs me.
This really bothers me in context of things you've you said.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:34 pm

Post by ZazieR »

I agree with armlx here. Now that Santos has already 'revealed' that he's a mason, he already has a higher chance of being NK'ed. If there isn't a third mason it doesn't matter if Santos reveals or doesn't reveal his partner as Santos can get NK'ed and his partner changes in a normal townie.
I would like to know who his partner is. If his partner can confirm that they are masons, then we at least know there's another mason group. Now there's still a chance of him lying.
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:51 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

ZazieR wrote:I agree with armlx here. Now that Santos has already 'revealed' that he's a mason, he already has a higher chance of being NK'ed. If there isn't a third mason it doesn't matter if Santos reveals or doesn't reveal his partner as Santos can get NK'ed and his partner changes in a normal townie.
I would like to know who his partner is. If his partner can confirm that they are masons, then we at least know there's another mason group. Now there's still a chance of him lying.
I don't see why it would be the case, since alignments of all "masons" are unknown (except to themselves, of course).
You are assuming that the masons are all definately town-aligned, which is probably not a good assumption at this point.
And, if Santos is telling the truth, there should be at least 4 masons now.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:05 am

Post by armlx »

I have a feel that because Santos's partner hasn't stepped up, he is probably just scum and no buddy wants to be linked like that.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:10 am

Post by ZazieR »

I'm not assuming that they are both town alligned. As you can see, I wrote that we then at least know that there is another mason group.
Lately, we have only been discussing about Santos's 'partner'. I want this over with as this is only distracting.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:32 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

armlx wrote:I have a feel that because Santos's partner hasn't stepped up, he is probably just scum and no buddy wants to be linked like that.
This. Even if a partner does come out, I'm sold.

Confirm vote: Santos
die scum die.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:11 am

Post by armlx »

Save The Dragons wrote:
armlx wrote:I have a feel that because Santos's partner hasn't stepped up, he is probably just scum and no buddy wants to be linked like that.
This. Even if a partner does come out, I'm sold.

Confirm vote: Santos
die scum die.
I agree. Its just if I'm right, and somehow he turns up town, his partner is NEVER going to claim.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:32 am

Post by christiano drago »

Riceballtail wrote:
UNVOTE; VOTE:Armlx
FoS:Moses


Thought: Armlx is trying to get a name out of him to see if it's a scumbuddy, so he can figure out if CC is also therefore scum or not.
Holy shit, did you actually just vote someone and state the reasons as "They've been scum hunting."?

That's ridiculous. RBT and Santos are too buddy-buddy to not have prior knowledge of each others alignment IMO, I reckon they're either both Masons or both scum.

Either way
vote: Santos
, because quite frankly I like the case that's been made against you.

Also,
FoS: RiceBallTail
. For voting someone for scum-hunting.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:07 am

Post by bird1111 »

Vote Count:
Santos (6): ZazieR, Moses le fou, armlx, Save the Dragon, ZTR, christiano drago
Battle Mage (1): SocioPath
Riceballtail (1): Battle Mage
armlx (1): Riceballtail
hp [leaves] (1): CarnCarn

Not voting (6): Thunder, Santos, hp [leaves], Sineish, Empking, oEJo

With 16 alive it is 9 to lynch.

Lynch Method Vote Count:
Gun (6): CarnCarn, ZazieR, hp [leaves], oEJo, christiano drago, ZTR
Rope (6): Save the Dragons, Riceballtail, armlx, Empking, Sineish, Moses le fou

Not voting for a lynch method (4): Battle Mage, Thunder, SocioPath, Santos

If a lynch were to happen without any change in lynch method votes, the Gun would be used.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:27 am

Post by CarnCarn »

If Santos doesn't reveal his mason partner or his partner doesn't self-reveal soon, I will be voting Santos.
Not to mention that he hasn't answered any of the other questions that have been posed to him.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:30 am

Post by Santos »

Really? Because there are a lot of ambiguities I have not seen answered.
Yes, and one in particular is how hasty people are to get vote happy when certain things have not been discussed to the fullest.
ex: Someone mentioned how a scum would avoid a particular lynch method, or WIFOM vote for their lynch method that is sure to kill them. Right? Wasn't this brought up? Well, did anyone ask if scum REALLY know what it is that they would be more susceptible to? If there are different lynch methods, then why would scum be privy to such information beforehand in a voting scheme? Answer that one and you get a million ducks! :)
Why did you vote Moses, citing as your evidence for voting him a bandwagon/pressure vote, when Moses had no votes at the time, and you didn't give any reason for wanting to pressure Moses?
As I recall, I was the SECOND vote on Moses and it was purely random, again, but I mentioned I didn't want to sound redundant later because it would appear scummy. But if someone throws in their little tid-bit about 'WIFOM'
someone
my get nitpicky and have a hay-day with it.
Why did you unvote him after nothing had happened?
No particular reason. I just wanted to mention Riceballtail's ability to stay behind the scenes and at the same time be omnipresent throughout the thread...its either a good scum tactic, or a strong pro town power role being conservative...you take your pick.
Why did you arbitrarily commend RBT's play when it has not been all the great in the opinions of other players? Why RBT specifically, why at the time, what specifically (i.e. examples) about his play has been good?
Read above.
Why do you ask me for discourse when you don't provide it yourself? Why do you accuse me of lynching you with no evidence when you claim that I have said stuff (but it's already been explained)?
What did I need to provide to anyone when I was asking the questions that no one seemed to be answering (I'm talking to the people who have votes on me).
So far, Your evidence against me is that I
1) random vote
2) unvote a lynch method
3) mention a player's playing abilities
4) hammer me for my mason partner when its purely not even needed
5) Ask me for a specific role in which I was PMed and I ANSWERED
6) And still think I have not answered anything to the fullest.

I'm here. I've answered questions. I don't believe I deserve so many votes. The only people who have constantly badgered me for information are armlx and Save the Dragons...the other voters on my person have not said a word! Whats the deal?
The claim for having a mason and NOT knowing the other mason's alignment bugs me.
Yes, I mentioned this because I was not going to jump right in and say 'OMG I HAVE THE SAME ROLE' I wanted to test the water with the people who claimed to have the same ability I did. Why can I not do this? If armlx and CarnCarn ARE really masons, why not speculate about the ability to see if its true what they are saying? That's what you guys seem to have done to me, no; speculating as to whether I am lying or not?
Your role PM better say that your buddy is confirmed, or I'm probably not taking my vote off you. I'm not really sure how you can be bugged by someone having your own role.
It doesn't have to appeal to you. It is strict in the fact that I am a 'neighbor' and my mason's alignment is unknown. If you're going to make up other things about my role email, then you might as well throw an 'OMGUS' at me as well! :p
This really bothers me in context of things you've you said.
Read above...I've explained it that I was merely speculating because I thought it strange that multiple mason groups would exist...wouldn't you be a tad suspicious seeing this (mason partners, alignment unknown, restricted to night talking)? It seemed to much of a coincidence right? But maybe there are multiple mason groups...maybe there aren't. All I can say is that I believe armlx and CarnCarn.
I agree with armlx here. Now that Santos has already 'revealed' that he's a mason, he already has a higher chance of being NK'ed. If there isn't a third mason it doesn't matter if Santos reveals or doesn't reveal his partner as Santos can get NK'ed and his partner changes in a normal townie.
I would like to know who his partner is. If his partner can confirm that they are masons, then we at least know there's another mason group. Now there's still a chance of him lying.
IMO, this seems to demand a lot more than you need to know, especially since you think I should be NK'd. And where do you get the idea of 'confirmations'? As I see it, there are TWO mason groups claimed on the table...myself and CarnCarn/armlx...right? (thinking about it...i may have armlx mentioned, but it could be someone else...i don't remember who CarnCarn said was his mason). Anways, couldn't it be possible that a Sicilian might be a mason with a townie and a Corsican might be a mason with another townie? So how does lynching me confirm anything of my mason partner? All that would do is either:

A) Prove that my other mason partner is scum when I am revealed townie
B) Prove nothing at all that my other mason is scum because he could be townie as well. The whole predicament is whether we need to 'Choose Carefully' IN OUR ASSUMPTIONS!
I have a feel that because Santos's partner hasn't stepped up, he is probably just scum and no buddy wants to be linked like that.
This makes a good point. So I will mentioned his name for my own sake (hopefully) and for your sake if you're going to lynch me and go into the night knowing that you lynched me, but never got my mason's name. (oEJo)
I want this over with as this is only distracting.
I believe you are just being a hasty scum, amirite?
Not to mention that he hasn't answered any of the other questions that have been posed to him.
Let me know if I missed any.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:22 pm

Post by armlx »

BM, if we were to lynch Santos today, what would you think we should use (gun/rope)?
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:23 pm

Post by Moses le fou »

Save The Dragons wrote:Really? Because there are a lot of ambiguities I have not seen answered.

Why did you vote Moses, citing as your evidence for voting him a bandwagon/pressure vote, when Moses had no votes at the time, and you didn't give any reason for wanting to pressure Moses?
Actually, Riceballtail had voted for me when Santos jumped on. Actually, that's what brought my eye to Santos -- it felt like he was trying to get a wagon on me because pressure had just begun to shift his way because of the lynch method discussion BM brought up. Coupled with his lack of explanation for the vote. I read it as him going "Errr, enough about me -- let's talk about somebody else!"
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:48 pm

Post by oEJo »

Hi everyone. I apologise for being inactive, I was away in sydney and got bogged down with homework. I will be more active from now on, as the amount of homework has subsided.

Just a short post for now; I'm Santos' unconfirmed Mason (Neighbour)
He's scum, based on symmetry stuff.
Just call me EJ.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:48 pm

Post by oEJo »

Vote:Santos
Just call me EJ.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:52 pm

Post by armlx »

He's scum, based on symmetry stuff.
This. More lynch plz.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:16 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

Vote:Santos
Even though this puts him at L-1.
There were so many things out of place in that post...
Also, I'm not sure about the symmetry argument oEJo is using. That is not why I'm voting Santos.
What I found particularly strange was where he said his role might have mentioned armlx and that he didn't remember who my mason partner was. And then he later says oEJo is his mason partner.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:39 pm

Post by armlx »

Unvote


I want to hear a response from BM before a hammer happens.
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:44 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

Actually, I would like everyone to choose a lynch method. Those not voting for one have tried to argue their way out of doing so, but haven't provided anything logical.
Now that we're actually close to lynching someone, I agree that BM and others should choose a lynch method, as they've said they would.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:46 pm

Post by oEJo »

CarnCarn wrote:
Vote:Santos
Even though this puts him at L-1.
There were so many things out of place in that post...
Also, I'm not sure about the symmetry argument oEJo is using. That is not why I'm voting Santos.
What I found particularly strange was where he said his role might have mentioned armlx and that he didn't remember who my mason partner was. And then he later says oEJo is his mason partner.
Basically, the point is that if there are two 'Neighbour' groups, it's more than likely that each has one townie, and one mafia, and in each group, the mafia is from a different faction.

Since I'm town, Santos is scum due do that reasoning.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:02 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

Wait a second...
Mod wrote:The Sicilian Mafia and Corsican Mafia have chosen to take over a small town. Just one problem, the only method that the Sicilian Mafia has to kill off the Corsicans doesn't work on the Town, while their best method for killing of members of the Town doesn't work on the Corsicans and same for the Corsicans! The town has a similar problem, as they have to use different methods for the Sicilians and the Corsicans.
Does this mean there is only one way to kill a townie, and thus a failed lynch tells us nothing about alignment?
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

If it is true, it destroys my whole theory behind "lynch method choice doesn't matter"
I'm going to
Unvote:Santos
until we get some mod info on this (unless it's already been explained and I just don't remember it).
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:49 pm

Post by Santos »

Since I'm town, Santos is scum due do that reasoning.
ORLY? I'm glad it took much speculation to come to that conclusion. Just know that you will be looked at closely the next day, if not the night.

FoS: oEJo


Vote: Rope
. Why, now? Well, CarnCarn brought up a pretty solid point making me think that its plain jane mafia now...

Rope lynches scum, gun kills townies. Why would it be the other way around?
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:04 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

Rope lynches scum, gun kills townies. Why would it be the other way around?
Gun kills Corsicans, Rope kills Sicilians.
Actually, after thinking about this some more, I'm beginning to think the NK methods for scum are different from the Gun/Rope lynch methods (they would have to be, based on the opening post, IMO).
For example, the Corsican can choose to NK with Rope or some other weapon that kills only townies (and to which the Sicilians are immune). Otherwise, the Corsicans can just NK with Rope all the time. So, each scum group is actually immune to 2 weapons, for this work out.
However, I don't understand why the Corsicans wouldn't choose Rope anyway because Rope should be able to kill townies as well (AFAIK, I have no protection against any weapon). This setup is driving me insane right now.

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