Read Your Role Mafia - Game Over

[charter]

Well, we wasted practically all of day one waiting on him, all for nothing. Whos to say it won't happen tomorrow? What if he just declares someone else scum, doesn't elaborate and we waste D2?

I know he's been very anti-town, and I'm not convinced on Electra so he's the best option.

[SocioPath]

Vote: SocioPath

.

Happy?

Sure, to an extent.

I'll claim this: if it hasn't been apparent, I'm not a townie.

Also remember that there are 4 different win conditions in this game, and with that said, I win with the town.

If I get more votes from people actually contributing that still feel they need to know more, then I'll go into more detail.

[SensFan]

Vote: SocioPath

.

Happy?

Sure, to an extent.

I'll claim this: if it hasn't been apparent, I'm not a townie.

Also remember that there are 4 different win conditions in this game, and with that said, I win with the town.

If I get more votes from people actually contributing that still feel they need to know more, then I'll go into more detail.

Awesome, now you reinforced even more the need for a full claim. Scum tend to only care if you are Townie or Power, so they have all the info as if you had full-claimed. Town, on the other hand, gain very little from a 'not Townie' claim.

[SocioPath]

Awesome, now you reinforced even more the need for a full claim. Scum tend to only care if you are Townie or Power, so they have all the info as if you had full-claimed. Town, on the other hand, gain very little from a 'not Townie' claim.

Yeah, that'd be true, normally. This game has different mechanics though, and thats mostly with the roles themselves.

I also noted that your vote to get me to claim, was less than 2 full minutes after my post before that, just saying.

[SensFan]

Awesome, now you reinforced even more the need for a full claim. Scum tend to only care if you are Townie or Power, so they have all the info as if you had full-claimed. Town, on the other hand, gain very little from a 'not Townie' claim.

Yeah, that'd be true, normally. This game has different mechanics though, and thats mostly with the roles themselves.

I also noted that your vote to get me to claim, was less than 2 full minutes after my post before that, just saying.

I still support a full-claim.

And are you implying that it's scummy for you and I to be online at the same time? This is very different to someone who doesn't post for a week or more and shows up within a day of getting negative attention. That's a really bad last sentence, if you ask me.

[forbiddanlight]

Anyway, the explain more is essentially reiterating a lot of what Yaw said. For the most part, it feels like Sociopath is trying to push "Any lynch he can get" and also possibly pushing counterwagons to avoid troublesome lynches (for him). The ooba case felt weak and only got weaker as you tried to further justify it. The current electra case seems to be trying to play off the fact people don't like no lynch. I was actually half ready to attack her for that myself until it was pointed out she has older player meta where no lynch would be done on a day start. I'm willing to accept that and look for other scum tells if she drops them. I disagree with your WIFOM case for the most part. And thusly, that is why I'm voting you, SP. Also, I'd like to state you really SHOULD full claim.

[SensFan]

forbidden (or anyone other than me, for the sake of making sure SP doesn't call it OMGUS), do you agree with how bad it was that I'm supposedly scummy for posting 2 mins after him?

[wolframnhart]

forbidden (or anyone other than me, for the sake of making sure SP doesn't call it OMGUS), do you agree with how bad it was that I'm supposedly scummy for posting 2 mins after him?

I don't believe it is scummy at all because I have voted or posted after someone before only because I did not preview before posting. And to nit pick after someone for two whole minutes is just ridiculous. Had it been two days, i could see SP's point, but it wasn't so it almost seems like he is just trying to attack whatever he can out of Sens posting.

[forbiddanlight]

forbidden (or anyone other than me, for the sake of making sure SP doesn't call it OMGUS), do you agree with how bad it was that I'm supposedly scummy for posting 2 mins after him?

Scuminess is scuminess. If you were voting him for scuminess (which as far as I can tell you were), then it's pretty clear that the time shouldn't matter. That's a fallacy to claim that because someone did something quickly it makes them scummy.

[SensFan]

forbidden (or anyone other than me, for the sake of making sure SP doesn't call it OMGUS), do you agree with how bad it was that I'm supposedly scummy for posting 2 mins after him?

I don't believe it is scummy at all because I have voted or posted after someone before only because I did not preview before posting. And to nit pick after someone for two whole minutes is just ridiculous. Had it been two days, i could see SP's point, but it wasn't so it almost seems like he is just trying to attack whatever he can out of Sens posting.

One of us misunderstood something. I read his post saying that he would only listen to the demands for claims from people that had voted him. I understood the statement about the 2mins as saying that I was scummy for being so quick to vote him after he 'called me out' for not voting him.

[SocioPath]

And are you implying that it's scummy for you and I to be online at the same time? This is very different to someone who doesn't post for a week or more and shows up within a day of getting negative attention. That's a really bad last sentence, if you ask me.

No, I was implying that you probably jumped to voting without even fully reading my large chunk of words, unless you faster reader than most.


Also, because I didn't think about bringing it up earlier, your statements of no cult because the mod hates them go under 'trying to out-guess the mod.'

Especially since the first post states:

4.)

There are at least four different alignments (i.e. win conditions) in this game.

8.)

All Cultists deaths will be revealed as either “Cult Leader”, or “[Former Role], Cultist”, where [Former Role] will be replaced by the appropriate former role name.

9.)

Despite the fact that this game is titled “read your role mafia”, in no way am I trying to have a “gotcha!” moment based on misleading wording in your role PM. However, I

am

trying to emphasize that some roles have particular

nuances

, and instead of playing “hide the ball”, I want you to realize these nuances and take them into account while playing.

Those rules together, I think pretty much garentees a cult, that you might be the leader of. (It'd make sense: use previous meta to rule it out, then snatch up the town.)

[SocioPath]

I understood the statement about the 2mins as saying that I was scummy for being so quick to vote him after he 'called me out' for not voting him.

I didn't say it was scummy, although I understand why you would think that me making a note of it would be seen as me thinking it was scummy because of the timing issue.

[SensFan]

And are you implying that it's scummy for you and I to be online at the same time? This is very different to someone who doesn't post for a week or more and shows up within a day of getting negative attention. That's a really bad last sentence, if you ask me.

No, I was implying that you probably jumped to voting without even fully reading my large chunk of words, unless you faster reader than most.

I read every word you posted. Took me about 3 minutes, but I read it.

Also, because I didn't think about bringing it up earlier, your statements of no cult because the mod hates them go under 'trying to out-guess the mod.'

Especially since the first post states:

4.)

There are at least four different alignments (i.e. win conditions) in this game.

8.)

All Cultists deaths will be revealed as either “Cult Leader”, or “[Former Role], Cultist”, where [Former Role] will be replaced by the appropriate former role name.

9.)

Despite the fact that this game is titled “read your role mafia”, in no way am I trying to have a “gotcha!” moment based on misleading wording in your role PM. However, I

am

trying to emphasize that some roles have particular

nuances

, and instead of playing “hide the ball”, I want you to realize these nuances and take them into account while playing.

Those rules together, I think pretty much garentees a cult, that you might be the leader of. (It'd make sense: use previous meta to rule it out, then snatch up the town.)

Are you aware of PJ's views on Cults?

If not, go read them.
If so, stop saying stuff that's obviously false.

[SensFan]

EBWOP:

I am perfectly happy to go on record and state that it would be dumb beyond belief to so much as consider that there might be even a 0.0001% chance of a Cult. This applies until there is a dead Cult member.

[SocioPath]

Are you aware of PJ's views on Cults?

Yes.

But, it might just be a misnomer, and the Cult might not function as per a standard cult would. PJ could easily work it around to something he'd find more suitable, evne if it's only a renaming of a 2nd scum group.

[SensFan]

...If its a renaming of a Scum group, its not a Cult.

Seriously, I fail to comprehend how you can even begin to think that his views on Cults would be misnomers, given how ridiculously passionately anti-Cult he is.

[Yaw]

Oh come now. This is Jellymod. Go and look in Mafia Discussion for how many posts he's made about the evils of alignment-switching. So yes, there may be something called a cult, but if so it's highly unlikely to have an alignment-switching mechanic. (I like to refer to this as a CINO -- Cult In Name Only.)

My personal experiance is that with the way I word things, scum jump all over it, and ask me to state, and restate, and restate things again and again of things I've already covered. I got that vibe from ooba, hence my vote.

Care to state where ooba ever "jumped all over you"? As far as I saw, the exact opposite was happening.

The deadline is two days away. A lynch is needed.

A lynch is preferable. That doesn't make it absolutely necessary. Town can still win with a no lynch. If not, this game was poorly designed.

And what was your defense about her no lynch suggestion? Oh thats right, shes an old player from a long long time ago, she thinks differently.

Well I've got news for you. Do you realise WHY shifts in thought occur? Because over time, people draw out and see things that are scummy, and can aling certain actions as being scummy. Maybe things that worked for scum back then perhaps won't WORK FOR SCUM TODAY, because we have a larger knowledge base as far as what scum DO.

Your assumption here is problematic. Yes, metas change. That said, all players can't be expected to change in exactly the same way, or at exactly the same rate. It's foolish to assume that

everyone

has shifted in thought, and that those who haven't are automatically scum.

Evidence? It is a daystart with no known dayroles. There is no evidence, just speculation based on what people say.

False. There is evidence based on what people say. This isn't a game of follow-the-cop. Catching scum has to be based on compiling cases from what they say in thread. It is not pure speculation.

The charter wagon was/is retarded, because its based on a single statement of 'Sens is town'. Statements like that occur all the time. Read in a few more games. Does charter KNOW that Sens is town? Unlikely, but thats just his initial read off of him.

Read in a few more games? Dood. Check my join date. And yes, that statement was definitely sufficient for an initial bandwagon. But you'll note I'm not pushing it anymore, because now I have better evidence on you.

Besides, the the charter-wagon was retarded, what do you call the ooba-wagon?

I'll claim this: if it hasn't been apparent, I'm not a townie.

Well, yeah. Knew that one already. (And you say there's no evidence in thread.)

[Seraphim]

I would still like an Electra lynch. I'm going to say that outright. Depending on what happens during twilight/night and the roles of the deceased, I will either push that lynch unless my case becomes stupid or someone even scummier comes along.

As for Sociopath...

I would really, really like a roleclaim.

Vote: Sociopath

Will this convince you? Your hints just make me more...wary of you. What is your win condition?

[petroleumjelly]

Day One Vote Count #12

5 SocioPath (Yaw, Caboose, forbiddanlight, SensFan, Seraphim)
3 MafiaSSK (wolframnhart, charter, ooba)
2 Electra ( Empking, SocioPath)
1 charter (MafiaSSK)

With

14

alive, it takes

8

to lynch, and

7

to No-Lynch. Deadline October 22, 9:59 pm CDT, and it will take

5

to lynch at deadline.

Not Voting – 3 – Electra, RandomGem, ShadowGirl

wolframnhart has been prodded.

Edit: Electra unvote fixed, and wolframnhart has

not

been prodded.

[SensFan]

Hey PJ, is there a Cult in this game?

[Electra]

jelly, I unvoted SSK.

Mod Note: Fixed, and thank you.

[Seraphim]

Jelly, wolf will not need a prod. He posted already today. Also, so no one can call me out.

Unvote

Vote: Sociopath

[petroleumjelly]

Hey PJ, is there a Cult in this game?

The most I can say is read your role, and read the rules. If the answer is not apparent from that information, then that is most likely how I intended to be, and so it shall remain.

If there are other questions, please use a bolded

Mod

.

[charter]

Electra, do you think SocioPath is town or scum?

[SocioPath]

Oh come now. This is Jellymod. Go and look in Mafia Discussion for how many posts he's made about the evils of alignment-switching.

As stated above, I already knew PJ's stance on cults.

Care to state where ooba ever "jumped all over you"? As far as I saw, the exact opposite was happening.

Where have i been indecisive?

...After I had already where.

Sociopath, you still haven't answered this question ..

You accused me of being indecisive. So don't you consider my replies to those accusations as real and useful?

You accused me of being indecisive. So don't you consider my replies to those accusations as real and useful?

Repeatedly harping at statements I had already covered.

It's foolish to assume that

everyone

has shifted in thought, and that those who haven't are automatically scum.

You act as if she had been perfectly protown to begin with. The vote I made wasn't assuming such was said in isolation.

Read in a few more games? Dood. Check my join date. And yes, that statement was definitely sufficient for an initial bandwagon. But you'll note I'm not pushing it anymore, because now I have better evidence on you.

Just because you joined early, doesn't mean it'd hurt you to read more games. Look at Electra, joined even before you, and has 1/5 of the game posts you have.

Besides, the the charter-wagon was retarded, what do you call the ooba-wagon?

I'd call it, that based on 100% of the multiple people I've seen act like that before, ooba's actions seemed to be scummy manuevers, and I actted on such.

(And you say there's no evidence in thread.)

Its not evidence. You are meerly speculating that what I am saying is correct only in regards to my stating that I'm not a townie, and ignoring anything else I've said as anything with merit.

You only choose to believe the things that you feel make your case better.

I would really, really like a roleclaim.

Vote: Sociopath

Will this convince you? Your hints just make me more...wary of you. What is your win condition?

My win condition is exactly as stated in the sample townie PM, I win when SKs, Mafia, Cults, are all dead, and at least 1 person that has that win condition is still alive.



As far as my role claim.

My role is pretty much useless.
I have a 1-shot abilty to target a person at night to learn what there role is NOT, regardless of whether or not that role is EVEN IN this game. The only useful part of this role is that if RB'd, I get a townie as a result. So really, the only thing I can do is get a 1 shot of knowing of whether or not I was RB'd.