Read Your Role Mafia - Game Over

[forbiddanlight]

I thought it'd be enough to warrant at least a vote. Probably not a whole lynch.

Well, there's still the fact you conveniently forgot this game after the charter wagon started :S. I'm keeping my vote.

[Electra]

I don't think SSK is mafia, so while this is a disappointing result, there's no point in continuing to vote him. So

unvote

Knowing that our deadline is coming up soon, and the day having not gotten very far, what does everyone think about a no lynch? I don't know if it's new meta or something to hate no lynches, but considering the nature of the game, where probably a larger percentage of town has roles than normal, it might be best to let everyone get through the first night. At least I am not confident enough in anyone being scum that I'm willing to pursue them with 3 days left til deadline.

[Caboose]

I don't think SSK is mafia, so while this is a disappointing result, there's no point in continuing to vote him. So

unvote

You're going to take your vote off of SSK for, what reason again?

Knowing that our deadline is coming up soon, and the day having not gotten very far, what does everyone think about a no lynch? I don't know if it's new meta or something to hate no lynches, but considering the nature of the game, where probably a larger percentage of town has roles than normal, it might be best to let everyone get through the first night. At least I am not confident enough in anyone being scum that I'm willing to pursue them with 3 days left til deadline

Nothing good ever comes of a no lynch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seraphim and Empking both pointed out that you're vote hopping, and I think that they might have a valid point considering that you just unvoted.

[Seraphim]

I don't think SSK is mafia, so while this is a disappointing result, there's no point in continuing to vote him. So

unvote

Knowing that our deadline is coming up soon, and the day having not gotten very far, what does everyone think about a no lynch? I don't know if it's new meta or something to hate no lynches, but considering the nature of the game, where probably a larger percentage of town has roles than normal, it might be best to let everyone get through the first night. At least I am not confident enough in anyone being scum that I'm willing to pursue them with 3 days left til deadline.

I'm sorry, but given your past record, I just think you may be scum. First, you jump onto two bandwagons, and now you're asking for a no lynch?

My scum-dar is going nuts.

[Yaw]

I'm still at, "That was what we waited for?" Feh.

Anyway, looking back at what started this:

A Sens wagon would be dumb, he is town I am fairly sure.

Here's the issue -- it's day 1 and we haven't had a night. That means that the only people who have the slightest idea who might be scum or town are those with role information that allow them to deduce such things. In other words, scum (slight possibility of actual masons who are told members of their group are innocent, but we don't see those as much anymore). So when charter is expressing little doubt that Sens is town so early in the game, it sets off alarm bells that he knows something he wouldn't as a pro-town player. Hence, fully-justified bandwagon.

The reason SSK's meta idea doesn't go the other way is because scum wouldn't know who other scum are in other groups because of role information. Which means either SSK was scum trying to bus a partner (unlikely since there were two competing wagons going at the time), or thought he saw something (for some bizarre reason I don't pretend to understand). There's a slight chance he's scum bringing up random crap to try to push a bandwagon on town, but I'd expect a less inept job of justifying the vote in this case.

In short, yes, still in favour of at least pushing charter.

As for No Lynch, Electra's part of the old crowd, back when games started at night as the gods ordained. I can remember reading a game back then in which the town voted to no lynch during a day start on purpose just to set the game back to its normal day-night cycle. Now, I'm personally more in favour of using the time we have to try to nab scum, but I will admit that if we don't lynch today it doesn't create an unrecoverable scenario. It's suboptimal, but not the worst possible outcome ever.

[SocioPath]

First, you jump onto two bandwagons, and now you're asking for a no lynch?

My scum-dar is going nuts.

I would just like to echo the truth of the quote.

Although SSK's responses aren't enough to warrent an unvote from me, and Electra lynch would be swell as well.


Also, another important note is, that the game setup states that every role is give special notes, including townies.
So I think that if someone is getting the lynch, regardless of what they claim, ESPECIALLY if claimed townie, that the special notes should stated as well, since they are not revealed on death.

[Yaw]

I'd be a bit wary of that last bit about revealing special notes. It seems to get a bit close to the "modquoting" wire. It'd have to be handled very carefully. (It's not that I'm against it, I just don't want anyone getting accidentally modkilled.)

[SocioPath]

I'd be a bit wary of that last bit about revealing special notes. It seems to get a bit close to the "modquoting" wire. It'd have to be handled very carefully. (It's not that I'm against it, I just don't want anyone getting accidentally modkilled.)

It wouldn't be any harder than someone who claims 'townie' without quoting it word for word. Besides if they were about to be lynched anyways, then wouldn't the end effect be the same?

I'm talking solely about people we know are going to be lynched.

[Electra]

I don't think SSK is mafia, so while this is a disappointing result, there's no point in continuing to vote him. So

unvote

Knowing that our deadline is coming up soon, and the day having not gotten very far, what does everyone think about a no lynch? I don't know if it's new meta or something to hate no lynches, but considering the nature of the game, where probably a larger percentage of town has roles than normal, it might be best to let everyone get through the first night. At least I am not confident enough in anyone being scum that I'm willing to pursue them with 3 days left til deadline.

I'm sorry, but given your past record, I just think you may be scum. First, you jump onto two bandwagons, and now you're asking for a no lynch?

My scum-dar is going nuts.

What past record?

If I were scum I would certainly not do something as controversial as suggest a no lynch. (No one bring up WIFOM please, I hate that term. Mafia became a worse game when it appeared.) But since this is a day start, then I'm not as opposed to it as I would be in other situations.

I don't think SSK is scum because he keeps commenting about forgetting the game and stuff like that. I have that problem too sometimes, but generally I'll only say so when I'm town. I only voted him because I wanted to get his input, so I don't see how it's jumping on a bandwagon, since I never intended to lynch him.

[Yaw]

It wouldn't be any harder than someone who claims 'townie' without quoting it word for word. Besides if they were about to be lynched anyways, then wouldn't the end effect be the same?

I'm talking solely about people we know are going to be lynched.

Looking over the opening post, it seems to be a bit of a grey area (paraphrasing is allowed, but special notes are never revealed, plus there's probably a bit of question as to how far away from quoting you can get while trying to give purely mechanical data -- this going by the sample PMs). Asking Jelly about the boundaries before revealing special notes is probably a good idea.

Using modkills as a mechanic for your advantage should

never

be considered.

Also, getting someone to lynch-2 or 1 shouldn't necessarily be considered as knowing that person is going to be lynched. I'd expect any player to defend themselves as well as they can up until the point where they are dead. (If special note information factors in the defense, that's understandable.) Reveal during twilight is ethically questionable.

Oh, and if they're a townie, why would their special note be in any way relevant? We have townie special notes in the opening post already. What could a townie special note possibly say that would warrant such emphatic mention?

[Caboose]

If I were scum I would certainly not do something as controversial as suggest a no lynch. (No one bring up WIFOM please, I hate that term. Mafia became a worse game when it appeared.)

Hate to break it to you, but that's WIFOM.

[Seraphim]

I would like to push for a Electra lynch. With the deadline in three days, the charter wagon is weak and based off of one statement. I really don't think there's enough for a lynch. MafiaSSK's meta was lame. And there still isn't enough to lynch him, either.

For the first day, I think we should lynch electra, for the reasons I have stated above.

[Yaw]

So my whole argument write-up gets ignored in favour of "OMG Electra changed her vote!!!!111oneone"? Really? With all due respect, there's more of substance there than there is against Electra.

[Electra]

If I were scum I would certainly not do something as controversial as suggest a no lynch. (No one bring up WIFOM please, I hate that term. Mafia became a worse game when it appeared.)

Hate to break it to you, but that's WIFOM.

No, it's not.

If I suggest no lynch, then people are going to find me suspicious for bringing up no lynch. Even if they don't find me suspicious for it, they're not going to find me any less suspicious than they would if I had not brought it up in the first place. Therefore, there's no benefit to suggesting no lynch unless I'm town and I believe it might be the best course of action.

[Caboose]

I'm with Yaw in that I'm not sold on an Electra lynch. If anything, I think that the whole Electra vote hopping theory is weak.

I think Yaw has some good points, but I'm still more in favor of an SSK lynch. He comes out, gives us a little tidbit, and then disappears. He sits and makes us wait for this magical meta, and then, convienently,

right before deadline

, he comes back to use with these "rereading..." posts (stalling tactic) and then just parrots what he said before until finally concedeing that he doesn't have that strong of a case on charter. Call my scummeter broken (you won't be the first to do so), but I read that as a shenanigan to distract the town while using up as much time as he can.

[Caboose]

he comes back to use

That should be "us".

[forbiddanlight]

I think Yaw has some good points, but I'm still more in favor of an SSK lynch. He comes out, gives us a little tidbit, and then disappears. He sits and makes us wait for this magical meta, and then, convienently, right before deadline, he comes back to use with these "rereading..." posts (stalling tactic) and then just parrots what he said before until finally concedeing that he doesn't have that strong of a case on charter. Call my scummeter broken (you won't be the first to do so), but I read that as a shenanigan to distract the town while using up as much time as he can.

Most of this. I still don't like Electra suggesting no lynch, but supposedly this was an old school meta since you used to have night starts? I could believe that.

[Yaw]

Well, the question with respect to SSK is whether what he did shows scum play, or just poor play. There's no question that it's irritating, but that's not really what we should be looking for. The real question is if SSK's responses indicate that he's oblivious to what's going on (poor play), or it his responses indicate that he knows exactly what's going on and is milking the clock to give us less time for discussion before the deadline (arguably scum play). I lean towards the former at the moment, though I can see why others wouldn't. Now, I can see an argument for lynching SSK for lurking, which I have no problem with. If I have to support that to get a lynch to happen, I'm ok with it. I just think that the argument on charter is more solid than an argument regarding lurking.

[MafiaSSK]

I'm doing amazingly poor play for myself in this game. I am fine with myself being a deadline lynch.

[charter]

I'm doing amazingly poor play for myself in this game. I am fine with myself being a deadline lynch.

vote MafiaSSK

[RandomGem]

Okay, I think MafiaSSK isn't scum still, even though he's looking really lazy and barely explained his meta... He even explained he didn't want a whole lynch, and if he had, he probably would have pushed his meta eariler and more.
And for Electra, I can understand why she would prefer no lynches and not using the word WIFOM, since she is an old user. So I think the case against her is weak too...
But I never can bring myself to suspect anyone on Day 1 anyway... >.>

[SocioPath]

Oh, and if they're a townie, why would their special note be in any way relevant? We have townie special notes in the opening post already. What could a townie special note possibly say that would warrant such emphatic mention?

The town role example specifically stated that that each role gets a special note.

Special notes aren't powers. They are notes. Special notes. Which are very relevant regardless of role.

I fail to see how additional information for the town isn't relevant, unless it is addition information that would hurt the town if revealed.

If I were scum I would certainly not do something as controversial as suggest a no lynch. (No one bring up WIFOM please, I hate that term. Mafia became a worse game when it appeared.)

Hate to break it to you, but that's WIFOM.

No, it's not.

If I suggest no lynch, then people are going to find me suspicious for bringing up no lynch. Even if they don't find me suspicious for it, they're not going to find me any less suspicious than they would if I had not brought it up in the first place. Therefore, there's no benefit to suggesting no lynch unless I'm town and I believe it might be the best course of action.

Yes, it is.

And you are focusing on the wrong aspect of what you said. It is not about the no lynch part. Saying what you would do if you were scum is WIFOM out the wazoo. You are basically claiming that you expect us to believe that you aren't scum because you did something that you knew people would find suspicious, which you claim you wouldn't do as scum.



As far as who to lynch, at this point I'd vote to lynch: SSK, Electra, or ooba.

Not feeling anyone else at this time.

[RandomGem]

Oh, and if they're a townie, why would their special note be in any way relevant? We have townie special notes in the opening post already. What could a townie special note possibly say that would warrant such emphatic mention?

The town role example specifically stated that that each role gets a special note.

Special notes aren't powers. They are notes. Special notes. Which are very relevant regardless of role.

I fail to see how additional information for the town isn't relevant, unless it is addition information that would hurt the town if revealed.

I think Yaw is just referring to the townie PM. Not a power role PM's special notes.

[Yaw]

Correct. Jellymod said each role has a special note. He did

not

say that each player has an individualized special note. I see no reason to believe that townie PMs have different special notes. Saying that townies

especially

should reveal their special notes if in danger of lynch (which is what SocioPath said) is silly, because townie notes are likely to have the least useful information (since townies have no powers) -- I'd expect them all to be exactly as per the presented sample townie PM or a variation thereof.

[Electra]

Yes, it is.

And you are focusing on the wrong aspect of what you said. It is not about the no lynch part. Saying what you would do if you were scum is WIFOM out the wazoo. You are basically claiming that you expect us to believe that you aren't scum because you did something that you knew people would find suspicious, which you claim you wouldn't do as scum.

No. I'm saying that bringing up no lynch is not suspicious. If I were using no lynch to clear other suspicions, then that would be WIFOM, but I'm not, I'm just saying that bringing up no lynch itself is not suspicious. I'm not saying that bringing it up makes me any more of a town, but it does not make me any scummier.

The reason I hate WIFOM is that people throw it around first of all, without paying attention to whether it applies, and second of all, in most situations, you can pretty much guess which one is going to happen so by using WIFOM, you're just ignoring evidence.

As for claiming, I believe full claims are always good, but it's up to the townie to hold back things that might be beneficial to the town as a result.