Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, your guesswork is putting the town at risk.

And I'm fairly certain you're not from my faction.

And there's every chance you're scum.

unvote, vote: Kinetic

So you're admitting you're scum?

If this is a serious question, then you have alarmingly less knowledge about this game setup even than your posts so far have revealed.

... -.-

I was joking about the "I'm fairly certain you're not from my faction" and then stating, since I'm of the town faction, "So you're admitting you're scum"...

...

Even if you didn't understand it, you knew it for a joke. Using it as an addition to you very obviously flawed arguments is just an indication of how weak your argument is.

First off, EVERYONE has a racial WC. This WC has nothing to do with the faction/alignment WC. By bringing them out into the open we can use them AGAINST their intended purpose. Their intended purpose was to bring about chaos in the town. For that reason ALONE we should all be for a race claim. The fact is, I have figured out something else, and I refuse to reveal that to you.

You vote me and attack me for revealing TOO much information, but you still want me to reveal MORE information and my refusal to you consider scummy. Contradiction much?

FOS:Dybeck

[dybeck]

You vote me and attack me for revealing TOO much information, but you still want me to reveal MORE information and my refusal to you consider scummy. Contradiction much?

FOS:Dybeck

There's no contradiction here. I don't like a massclaim. I don't like your fishing.

I wouldn't mind hearing you claim. No dichotomy.

I'm most concerned that you're not actually in an informed minority, and that this whole argument is distracting from lynching them.

Would you at least accept that we should hear from some other people?

unvote

for now.

[Kinetic]

You vote me and attack me for revealing TOO much information, but you still want me to reveal MORE information and my refusal to you consider scummy. Contradiction much?

FOS:Dybeck

There's no contradiction here. I don't like a massclaim. I don't like your fishing.

I wouldn't mind hearing you claim. No dichotomy.

I'm most concerned that you're not actually in an informed minority, and that this whole argument is distracting from lynching them.

Would you at least accept that we should hear from some other people?

unvote

for now.

But your fishing is ok? *rolls eyes*

I'd greatly like to hear from other people, I just want to know from you if you'd try and derail the claim if the majority of people supported it.

More opinions on this, for or against, are needed. Lurkers need to post their feelings please.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd greatly like to hear from other people, I just want to know from you if you'd try and derail the claim if the majority of people supported it.

You know my stance. I only support the plan if you fullclaim with it.

[Empking]

If it gets a moajority I'll do it reluctantly.

[armlx]

I do not endorse the race claim as it will have the exact opposite effect Kinetic is saying it will.

[Kinetic]

I do not endorse the race claim as it will have the exact opposite effect Kinetic is saying it will.

As people die we'll learn their race. What will happen when Centauri find that, its true that the town is losing, but if they find ONE MORE NARN they can win? What will happen when any race does that? What if this boils down to a race war? Keeping the races secret, that is what this will become. Doing a race claim when there is an imbalance of power is what this will become. While the races are all balanced is the ONLY time a race claim can have any effect. Once there is a death, everything goes out the window unless we stop it, here and now.

[Natirasha]

Or, you know, people will want to kill the people who are targeted in their WinCons with all the races claimed.

[populartajo]

Having skimmed the thread Ill finally have some time to post some thoughts.
ModTar probably didnt make a game to be (semi)broken with race claim with any prob disadvantages for uninformed majorities so I dont approve any kind of claims D1. This could change if someone really proves how it should be beneficial.
I have a bad feeling about Natirasha but its probably becaues he always tries to do something fishy early in the game and my last game with him he ended up scum having tried something like that.
Kinetic seems like a very active player and he's fighting quite hard to prove his thoughts. Prob town having problems to express his logic.
Will come up with anoither notable players later.

[veerus]

Or, you know, people will want to kill the people who are targeted in their WinCons with all the races claimed.

But since there are so many races, they're unlikely to achieve majority to get the lynch. Whereas if we unite on the AOL WC, we can achieve majority which would give us our best chance to win.

[Natirasha]

But what about, say, a vig? They will mosdef kill their targets to win, you know.

[pacman281292]

I do not endorse the race claim as it will have the exact opposite effect Kinetic is saying it will.

... and not claiming it will have the exact effect Kinetic is saying it will. If we ignore the race stuff until late in the game, we will focus back on scumhunting, not in racehunting.

Heavy FoS: Kinetic

for trying to screw the game to all us.

[Mana_Ku]

Why a FoS instead of a vote pacman?

I'll keep it with what i already said. The race claims should be later. If there are only a few players left, we can use the race claims and the win claims to catch the scum.

Armlx, what do you think will happen if we will race claim now?

[Empking]

Or, you know, people will want to kill the people who are targeted in their WinCons with all the races claimed.

But since there are so many races, they're unlikely to achieve majority to get the lynch. Whereas if we unite on the AOL WC, we can achieve majority which would give us our best chance to win.

That's a definate point.

[Kinetic]

Why a FoS instead of a vote pacman?

I'll keep it with what i already said. The race claims should be later. If there are only a few players left, we can use the race claims and the win claims to catch the scum.

Armlx, what do you think will happen if we will race claim now?

Race claims later will be WORSE. The races ahead will KNOW they are ahead. They will be the ones asking for the race claim and at that point it will be a distraction for the town, not a benefit. Finding out the races now we, as a town, will always outnumber a certain race's WC and we can always prevent one from winning. Without the KNOWLEDGE that a certain race is doing that though, there COULD be a power role that finds a race and they could push toward that WC while everyone else is ignorant.

At all times, since there are circular WC and no two races have the same WC, all the other races will out number one race and keep it from winning. And we can keep everyone honest by having a race claim.

[Kinetic]

Additionally, if there is a power role that can figure out the race of someone, the scum cannot lie about their race, because if they are caught that is a definite trap for the scum. Race has nothing to do with their alignment win condition, so there should be 0 reason for them to lie about it. If they do lie about it though, there is always the chance that they will 1) get caught, and 2) mess up the math so that it is OBVIOUS that there is a lying scumbag in a certain race group.

[Natirasha]

Kinetic, don't you think that the Vorlons/Shadows have races too?

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, don't you think that the Vorlons/Shadows have races too?

*Cheshire Cat Grin*

There are two possibilities here Nat. And both of them are VERY bad for scum. You're starting to move toward my big reveal and I'd hope you'll stay off this line of thought.

[Kinetic]

Also Nat, I'd like to ask you, how is your WC worded? What is the exact term they refer to your enemies as (Shadows)

[Darox]

I'd like to stand up right now and say Kinetic's race plan has a huge gaping flaw in it.

He's making at least two incorrect assumptions.

[Kinetic]

Name them.

[Darox]

Name them.

One is who needs to be eliminated for a racial victory, and the other is that every player has a racial win condition.

By the way, Minarbi don't need to kill Narn to win.

[veerus]

Kinetic, don't you think that the Vorlons/Shadows have races too?

*Cheshire Cat Grin*

There are two possibilities here Nat. And both of them are VERY bad for scum. You're starting to move toward my big reveal and I'd hope you'll stay off this line of thought.

I'm pretty sure I know where Kinetic is going with this... theme knowledge here is key. And while this will come to light sooner or later anyway, I agree that it will be more effective before the race claim.

[veerus]

By the way, Minarbi don't need to kill Narn to win.

Are you saying this because you're a Minbari and that's not one of your WC's?

Or because they didn't in the series and thus don't here? (this second one is a bad assumption)

[Natirasha]

Also Nat, I'd like to ask you, how is your WC worded? What is the exact term they refer to your enemies as (Shadows)

It is worded as Shadow Operatives.

By the way, Minarbi don't need to kill Narn to win.

Bullshit.