Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[Darox]

What is Kinetics plan other than we should all claim races and not try to fulfil our race win conditions?

[Kinetic]

What is Kinetics plan other than we should all claim races and not try to fulfil our race win conditions?

That's the primary plan. There is one other things, but I can't reveal it yet. You'll have to take me on faith for the last part. I will reveal it when the race claim is done though.

[dybeck]

Kinetic, a full and unfettered claim from you would help people decide whether they want to follow your plan.

I should tell you that, without it, there isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'm following your plan.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, a full and unfettered claim from you would help people decide whether they want to follow your plan.

I should tell you that, without it, there isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'm following your plan.

A full and unfettered claim with the possibility of this plan not being put into action is not acceptable. However, I am prepared to compromise. If this plan is accepted, and this is required from the majority of the other players, I will provide a full claim and not just a race claim.

[MafiaSSK]

I'm believe Nat's claim.

Why?

He makes it seem believable.

[dybeck]

Kinetic, a full and unfettered claim from you would help people decide whether they want to follow your plan.

I should tell you that, without it, there isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'm following your plan.

A full and unfettered claim with the possibility of this plan not being put into action is not acceptable. However, I am prepared to compromise. If this plan is accepted, and this is required from the majority of the other players, I will provide a full claim and not just a race claim.

Why would anyone provide you with info with no idea what side you're on?

In any mafia game??

[The Internet]

I'm ok with a race claim.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, a full and unfettered claim from you would help people decide whether they want to follow your plan.

I should tell you that, without it, there isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'm following your plan.

A full and unfettered claim with the possibility of this plan not being put into action is not acceptable. However, I am prepared to compromise. If this plan is accepted, and this is required from the majority of the other players, I will provide a full claim and not just a race claim.

Why would anyone provide you with info with no idea what side you're on?

In any mafia game??

And a full claim you think would prove otherwise? You'll have plenty of room to doubt me no matter what. That isn't the issue here.

Make your judgment. I took a leap of faith that the town would be able to see the depth with which I thought this out and gave you nearly all of my research. I'm pretty sure I'm going to die for this, but I knew that it was worth the risk. I took that risk so that even if I die the town will have a much better chance of winning.

Take a look at my record so far in this game. Yea, some people may think I look scummy, but everything I've done I've done for a reason, one that I'm willing to share if asked, and willing to defend if disputed. I'm not perfect, and I've done some half-cocked things, my first claim idea pretty much was half-cocked, but I knew there was something in the WCs that would blow this game up, I just couldn't figure it out with the information I currently had.

I knew that I made a mistake earlier, and there was a flaw in my original claim idea. I even said I was pretty sure that the races was where the answer lied to fix the flaw. I was right. It took the revelation of RandomGem's role for me to have enough of the puzzle pieces to put it all together.

EVEN if RandomGem's role is fake, I know his WCs are real, even if they're not his own. If they weren't, someone who had the same WCs would have already come out and disputed them.

You're going to have to take a leap of faith, just like I did if you want to win this game. I've given you a fair compromise. I already have the most at stake if this plan succeeds or fails, and I'm willing to put more on the line. But not without at least a commitment from you.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm believe Nat's claim.

Why?

He makes it seem believable.

So did his survivor claim in Mind Screw II. Null Tell

As for Kinetics plan...given a full claim, I'm willing to entertain a hearing of it. So count that as a tentative yes. But realize part of this is because I expect him to be wrong. Tar doesn't make easily broken games, and I need a good laugh .

[dybeck]

Anyone who wants to give away their info is free to do so. I'm not one of them.

So it's 'no thanks' from me.

Now you've splashed the complete list of alignments across the thread, no doubt scum will find something that they'd like to claim, so no doubt they'll join you in your plan.

[Kinetic]

Anyone who wants to give away their info is free to do so. I'm not one of them.

So it's 'no thanks' from me.

Now you've splashed the complete list of alignments across the thread, no doubt scum will find something that they'd like to claim, so no doubt they'll join you in your plan.

The claim requires participation from everyone to work dybeck. If the majority of the town agrees to claim, will you claim?

[pacman281292]

Wait, so there are town and scum in the game... they have different names (AOL, Shadow, Vorlon).
Aahh... now I get it . Good point, Kinetic.

[MafiaSSK]

I support Kinetic's plan.

[hp [leaves]]

a lot of text

Just saying that I know of two more factions that aren't in your post.

[Natirasha]

I disagree with Kinetic's plan, but it really doesn't matter since I've already claimed.

I do request a full claim of him if we go through with this plan then.

[Empking]

a lot of text

Just saying that I know of two more factions that aren't in your post.

I think you should claim them.

[dybeck]

Anyone who wants to give away their info is free to do so. I'm not one of them.

So it's 'no thanks' from me.

Now you've splashed the complete list of alignments across the thread, no doubt scum will find something that they'd like to claim, so no doubt they'll join you in your plan.

The claim requires participation from everyone to work dybeck. If the majority of the town agrees to claim, will you claim?

I don't think it will work whether I claim or not. Scum will just fake claim now that we've made it so easy for them.

I don't see the point of the claim other than the fact that you think you've broken the game, despite the fact you know nothing of scum's abilities that could be aided by a mass claim and the fact that the mod is experienced and highly unlikely to have made it so easy.

And we have no way of knowing whether you're right or wrong, since you won't tell us the plan.

Furthermore, one of my win conditions is an anti-faction win condition, so declaring which one it is just makes me a target for nightkill. Which doesn't help me or my faction.

So no, overall, I'm not going to go along with your mysterious, inadequately-informed plan. On Day 1.

Does anyone have a reason to support the plan other than blind faith that Kinetic has actually broken the game?

[Natirasha]

[quote="Kinetic"First off, Nat is wrong. There are at LEAST 9 win conditions. However, there are only 3 factions. Every body has two types of win conditions, a faction win condition and a race win condition.[/quote]
I agree with this.

I believe that the Army of Light is the town faction. For this to be true than Vorlons and Shadow must be two OPPOSING mafia factions in this game. Since Nat's first win condition ONLY mentions Shadows, then this win condition must be his faction one. I believe this win condition should also mention the Army of Light, but even if it doesn't then it doesn't matter. He is a Vorlon Operative, and as the Army of Light, we must stop him.

One thing to note here is that my role PM does not mention the Army of Light in anyway. If I actually was a Vorlon, wouldn't you think I would know they were the Town faction. I mean, it'd certainly help me out a lot.

Second, I know he is is trying to push the town away from the Army of Light win condition as town.

No, because this game, there is no "town". Army of Light is the largest uninformed majority, but there are other uninformed majorities. I know this. By two seperate means.

He's locking onto the Narn as evil. The Narn aren't inherently mafia in this game.

No, I'm drawing conclusions based on the fact that RandomGem's condition and mine both had the Narn as evil.

All of the race win conditions are RED HERRINGS! They are to put the town at odds with each other so the mafia can win in the chaos. You must ignore these. We must find the Shadow and Vorlon operatives. To do so we must ignore these petty race squabbles.

This is exactly why there is no town in this game. Everyone has a different agenda.

Faction Win Conditions
Army of Light (Town): Defeat Shadows and Vorlon Operatives
Shadow Operatives(Mafia A): Defeat Vorlons and AOL
Vorlon Operatives(Mafia B): Defeat Shadows and AOL
Anti-Shadow: Defeat Shadows and Survivors
Survivor: Survive til the end of the game?

Race Win Conditions
Minbari: Kill Earthforce and Narn, they are hunted by Babylon 5 and Unaligned Worlds
Earthforce: Kill unaligned and Centauri, are hunted by Babylon 5 and Minbari
Babylon 5: Kill Earthforce and Minbari, are hunted by unaligned and Narn
Centauri: Kill unaligned and Narn, are huned by Narn and Earthforce
Narn: Kill Centauri and B5, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri
Unaligned: Kill B5 and Minbari, are hunted by Centauri and Earth force[/quote] Added two more to the factional.

It is just a big circle guys. We're all hunting each other and in the end the scum will win.

Or, you know, we kill the people we need to kill and win that wa`y?

We must ignore these win conditions and work toward the Army of Light win condition. I know you all have it, and if you don't, you're not town.

I suggest to everyone that you work towards both your win conditions.

If there is seven race win conditions then a few of the above race win conditions are wrong, but the circle will still be there I'm sure. The race win conditions are meant to break the town up.

Or, you know, they are alternate win conditions. I pose this question to you, Kinetic. If there are two people to be lynched: One who is slightly less scummy, but mentioned in your second win condition, or the one who is more likely to be Shadow, who do you lynch?

I propose a race claim. I want to know exactly who everyone's race is. I cannot tell you exactly why I want this. Not yet. But I will tell you this: I have no intention of hunting people specifically of their race.

You do realize by doing this race claim, that other people will hunt for the races they need to kill to win. Not everyone thinks the same way as you.

I realize this is similar to my WC claim from earlier, but now that I have all the facts, I'm figured out this game and I'm pretty sure I've broken it, I just need a little more information to put my plan into action.

Or, you know, your shadow/vorlon and plan on using this information to achieve your racial win condition.

I PROMISE to reveal my entire plan immediately after the race claim, but I need to have the claim before I reveal this final part.

No. Tell us it now.

[forbiddanlight]

Does anyone have a reason to support the plan other than blind faith that Kinetic has actually broken the game?

Actually, I want to see him fall on his face so I can laugh.

I don't think it will work whether I claim or not. Scum will just fake claim now that we've made it so easy for them.

Given other Tar games, scum don't need our help to fake claim. Tar likely has a "Mafia falseclaim" ability for the scum or any anti town faction.

I don't see the point of the claim other than the fact that you think you've broken the game, despite the fact you know nothing of scum's abilities that could be aided by a mass claim and the fact that the mod is experienced and highly unlikely to have made it so easy.

This, though he might know scum abilities if he's scum .

[hp [leaves]]

Okay, one is Nat's claim: Anti-shadow. That has no business with either the Light Force or the Vorlons. Their win condition is to get the shadows and neutral survivors dead (one of Nat's early posts was about asking survivors to come out and tell why he shouldn't kill them)

The other one is, as you suspect; the anti-vorlon, the vorlon version of Nat's faction. The reason that I fully believe Nat's claim is that I'm from this faction. If you don't believe me, go on and lynch Nat (or me). Since the role PM's are exposed in the death scene, you'll see that I'm right.

Just telling again that neither the Anti-Shadow or Anti-Vorlon factions need to eliminate the Light Force to win

[hp [leaves]]

Just to mention my above post was started being written in 6 pm

[forbiddanlight]

The other one is, as you suspect; the anti-vorlon, the vorlon version of Nat's faction. The reason that I fully believe Nat's claim is that I'm from this faction. If you don't believe me, go on and lynch Nat (or me). Since the role PM's are exposed in the death scene, you'll see that I'm right.

Well, that's one win condition. Can we really trust Nat's other?

[Natirasha]

The other one is, as you suspect; the anti-vorlon, the vorlon version of Nat's faction. The reason that I fully believe Nat's claim is that I'm from this faction. If you don't believe me, go on and lynch Nat (or me). Since the role PM's are exposed in the death scene, you'll see that I'm right.

Well, that's one win condition. Can we really trust Nat's other?

Why would two win conditions that have similar structure and be confirmed by the other(i.e. this whole game, I've been targeting survivors) be different?

forbiddan, yes, this is a Tar game, but this is not a Mind Screw game. He is not out to screw us over, he's simply modding. And your flagrant use of meta is not useful either.

[forbiddanlight]

Why would two win conditions that have similar structure and be confirmed by the other(i.e. this whole game, I've been targeting survivors) be different?

forbiddan, yes, this is a Tar game, but this is not a Mind Screw game. He is not out to screw us over, he's simply modding. And your flagrant use of meta is not useful either.

Mafia Falseclaim.

I'm sorry I'm laying meta on too heavy but I tend to do that apparently. And even if it's not a Mind Screw Game, I highly doubt he'd leave the scum without that ability. Just my personal read.

[armlx]

Kinetic, wouldn't ever claiming their race just lead to more issues with people pursuing their race WC over the AOL one? Why not just have everyone agree to NEVER claim race, which means no one can ever target another race specifically and therefore has to win via their alignment WC.