Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Critter]

I am not? I don’t really have an argument for what I am not doing.

Fair enough.

Still waiting to see if anyone figures out what I've decided.

I find it interesting you have a decision when I am almost written in stone to be indecisive. I think this is Townie but if I am wrong you’re probably scum with Gamma or Dunn. This also completely ignores the Dunn/LLD discussion and is more just annoying.

My guess is since you’re voting me if you’re town you think Dunn/LLD is TvT and if you’re scum you don’t want to vote in Dunn/LLD making it likely TVS or SVT.

So if I have to guess you’re town or it’s you + Dunn.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

A bold statement. But you aren't whose take I'm waiting on.

[Critter]

A bold statement. But you aren't whose take I'm waiting on.

If you can answer this without exposing who you’re waiting on please do.

How does waiting on someone else’s opinion mean you vote me?

I don’t follow.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: toog

[Towelie]

Those who defend a person who have been accused (I don’t want to say guiltied as I don’t know) combined with the meta shift tend to be of similar alignment.

I mean if that's just a general principle you hold then i can see how you got here but i guess i really don't think things are really ever this simple. I think the fact that you made 121 weakens what you were (i think) getting at in 111 which is making me question why you made 111 in the first place.

I don't really feel going further on this is going to help me read you so i'm keen to drop it unless you have anything else to clarify on it.

[Something_Smart]

Still waiting to see if anyone figures out what I've decided.

Are you not doing the exact thing you were just criticizing?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

A bold statement. But you aren't whose take I'm waiting on.

If you can answer this without exposing who you’re waiting on please do.

How does waiting on someone else’s opinion mean you vote me?

I don’t follow.

You don’t need to follow.

I’ve said it in my other games and I’ll say it again: I bring an alien mindset and manipulative town playstyle to the table in a Mafia game. You’re just seeing that in practice. It is, perhaps, cruel in your eyes to put pressure on you and suggest there is nothing you can do to sway me, that you are at the whims of other things (be it people or statements or times) and you don’t even know what they are. I could apologize, but I don’t think it would be helpful. Perhaps even counterproductive. Maybe a lie.

Also, consider that there might not be a specific “who” I’m waiting on, only that you are not it. That might also be an intentionally misleading statement. You don’t know. That’s the point.

PEDIT: Something_Smart, I’m also showing my hand while I’m doing it. My hand is, admittedly, draped in smoke and mirrors, but that’s par for the course.

As my friend Roger would say, “This is all normal, Billy”.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I suppose it's fine as long as you explain it eventually.

Whose response exactly are you waiting for?

[Critter]

Those who defend a person who have been accused (I don’t want to say guiltied as I don’t know) combined with the meta shift tend to be of similar alignment.

I mean if that's just a general principle you hold then i can see how you got here but i guess i really don't think things are really ever this simple. I think the fact that you made 121 weakens what you were (i think) getting at in 111 which is making me question why you made 111 in the first place.

I don't really feel going further on this is going to help me read you so i'm keen to drop it unless you have anything else to clarify on it.

No I don’t and I am busy with other things. I think general principles are great ways to start things off but am trying not to go with a black and white mentality. That’s why there’s words like expect. It gives me enough to begin.

[StrangeMatter]

Therefore if anyone townreads Dunn I would expect those players to be of similar alignment. Eg if Dunn is town, person townreading Dunn is town and if Dunn scum person scum.

I'm not sure I'm following the part of this where if Dunn is scum, then the person townreading then is also scum and there isn't the possibility that town's made mistakes in townreading, especially when I know I've made mistakes like that before as Town where I trust the wrong person. I also don't see how if he flips green how the people townreading him are also town.

This kind of feels like scum trying set up a play, not sure exactly but definitely something I want to keep in mind if Dunn ever flips.

[Critter]

A bold statement. But you aren't whose take I'm waiting on.

If you can answer this without exposing who you’re waiting on please do.

How does waiting on someone else’s opinion mean you vote me?

I don’t follow.

You don’t need to follow.

I’ve said it in my other games and I’ll say it again: I bring an alien mindset and manipulative town playstyle to the table in a Mafia game. You’re just seeing that in practice. It is, perhaps, cruel in your eyes to put pressure on you and suggest there is nothing you can do to sway me, that you are at the whims of other things (be it people or statements or times) and you don’t even know what they are. I could apologize, but I don’t think it would be helpful. Perhaps even counterproductive. Maybe a lie.

Also, consider that there might not be a specific “who” I’m waiting on, only that you are not it. That might also be an intentionally misleading statement. You don’t know. That’s the point.

PEDIT: Something_Smart, I’m also showing my hand while I’m doing it. My hand is, admittedly, draped in smoke and mirrors, but that’s par for the course.

As my friend Roger would say, “This is all normal, Billy”.

It’s not about defense for me. I know I am fine. I wouldn’t say cruel either, just counter productive. If you view me as scum then you should be pushing me as such and explaining why so we can see other people’s reactions and then use that as leverage. Here it’s just a weird “you’re indecisive so you’re scum”. I am well aware of this being a team game and planned on just listening. I am not sure what you’re getting at.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Yeah, I suppose it's fine as long as you explain it eventually.

Whose response exactly are you waiting for?

That would be telling. Maybe it’s yours, right now, and I’m just playing out the game I’ve set.

Maybe it’s no one’s and I’ve actually lied in order to force this sort of engagement, and I’ll play it off like I had a plan all along when I get something worth picking at.

And maybe I’m watching the players outside of the two 1v1s to see which they gravitate to weighing in on, making hidden judgement calls on that basis, and building a map of where to hit.

Or none of the above. Again, you do not know. That’s the point.

I work best in the midst of chaos. A side effect of being a Discordian, maybe. Chaos has arrived, tis the season of Aftermath. Now the work begins, and I can’t very well do my best if I clear everything up for you, now can I?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I wouldn’t say cruel either, just counter productive.

I’ll just stop you here.

If you don’t know what my aim is, how can you say it’s counterproductive?

[Critter]

Yeah, I suppose it's fine as long as you explain it eventually.

Whose response exactly are you waiting for?

That would be telling. Maybe it’s yours, right now, and I’m just playing out the game I’ve set.

Maybe it’s no one’s and I’ve actually lied in order to force this sort of engagement, and I’ll play it off like I had a plan all along when I get something worth picking at.

And maybe I’m watching the players outside of the two 1v1s to see which they gravitate to weighing in on, making hidden judgement calls on that basis, and building a map of where to hit.

Or none of the above. Again, you do not know. That’s the point.

I work best in the midst of chaos. A side effect of being a Discordian, maybe. Chaos has arrived, tis the season of Aftermath. Now the work begins, and I can’t very well do my best if I clear everything up for you, now can I?

Let it be noted I hate this. I have been working extremely hard to not hyperpost and not be in conflict immediately and you doing manipulative stuff (your words) makes me really wonder what Townie mindset there is for this. Has anyone played with her before to speak to this?

[Critter]

I wouldn’t say cruel either, just counter productive.

I’ll just stop you here.

If you don’t know what my aim is, how can you say it’s counterproductive?

Because towns should be working together and saying what they think and what they don’t. This whole “maybe I think one way or another” is vague. It doesn’t help ascertain if you’re town doing this or you’re scum and just want an out when your push on me fails. The reactions if you’re town are therefore tainted from the initial push being weird.

[Critter]

Like imagine if I went “haha my reads all were fake. Cabd Penguin and (list mod here) are the scum team”. Beyond the fact that the mods aren’t scum by definition, it throws everything I said earlier into question.

I much prefer to be as honest as possible for that reason.

[Critter]

Take something smart for example, it becomes harder to tell if Something Smart is opportunistic scum or if you’re just scum who can’t fake a Townie mindset so why bother.

[Critter]

Like one of Smart/Matter could be scum for hopping on right away and ignoring the current dilemma but those reads are tainted.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Take something smart for example, it becomes harder to tell if Something Smart is opportunistic scum or if you’re just scum who can’t fake a Townie mindset so why bother.

I’m honest, usually. I rarely outright lie, but if I just say “I’m not lying” I can’t get the appropriate range of reactions.

This response you’re giving is very instructive on your alignment, for instance, and I wasn’t even expecting I’d be able to get this sort of content out of you in a parseable form. Not because I know something about you (I don’t) but because I tend to be blind to the true alignment of the other side of my 1v1s (as I’ve learned the hard way quite often).

There is always something else going on, when it comes to my play.

Also, I don’t think those reads are tainted. I’m waiting for useful information on StrangeMatter still, still a bit vanilla responses on that end, but I think I have a handle on Something_Smart. Not enough to build a whole read on, but a fairly informed opinion that can turn into a read pretty quickly.

[Critter]

Take something smart for example, it becomes harder to tell if Something Smart is opportunistic scum or if you’re just scum who can’t fake a Townie mindset so why bother.

I’m honest, usually. I rarely outright lie, but if I just say “I’m not lying” I can’t get the appropriate range of reactions.

This response you’re giving is very instructive on your alignment, for instance, and I wasn’t even expecting I’d be able to get this sort of content out of you in a parseable form. Not because I know something about you (I don’t) but because I tend to be blind to the true alignment of the other side of my 1v1s (as I’ve learned the hard way quite often).

There is always something else going on, when it comes to my play.

Also, I don’t think those reads are tainted. I’m waiting for useful information on StrangeMatter still, still a bit vanilla responses on that end, but I think I have a handle on Something_Smart. Not enough to build a whole read on, but a fairly informed opinion that can turn into a read pretty quickly.

So what exactly is this 1v1 about? I would rather get back to sorting Dunn and LLD because I think it’s important we sort there ASAP. I don’t want that to sit and fester. I want to sort their alignments ASAP.

[Critter]

Because I am not voting you so like by definition it’s not?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I’m watching Dunn and LLD closely too. I haven’t forgotten them or tried to bury them.

But don’t you think it’s more informative to have two sources of tension than one? To see what one draws what people? To see how they are allowed to evolve and grow, or abandoned to the dustbin of the thread?

I’ll be able to make a move there tonight, when one or both of Dunn and LLD has posted again. For now it’s you, me and anyone who cares to weigh in.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve said it in my other games and I’ll say it again: I bring an alien mindset and manipulative town playstyle to the table in a Mafia game. You’re just seeing that in practice. It is, perhaps, cruel in your eyes to put pressure on you and suggest there is nothing you can do to sway me, that you are at the whims of other things (be it people or statements or times) and you don’t even know what they are. I could apologize, but I don’t think it would be helpful. Perhaps even counterproductive. Maybe a lie.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I’m glad we understand each other, Gamma.

[Gamma Emerald]

I wouldn’t say cruel either, just counter productive.

I’ll just stop you here.

If you don’t know what my aim is, how can you say it’s counterproductive?

Because towns should be working together and saying what they think and what they don’t. This whole “maybe I think one way or another” is vague. It doesn’t help ascertain if you’re town doing this or you’re scum and just want an out when your push on me fails. The reactions if you’re town are therefore tainted from the initial push being weird.

There is advantage to being subversive as town.