Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[MafiaSSK]

I'll do a pbpa of the first person to get 5 or so votes.

[RandomGem]

Posting to avoid prod since I'm gone tomorrow.
Got a lot of crap to do this weekend, so I will pretty much be /lurking.

I'm assuming Tar's review of the deadline will be negative, and we'll be stuck with this deadline. I see there was a policy lynch (or fake one...) thing going on with MafiaSSK, and also a mini bandwagon on cr3t1n that I started...

[malthusis]

I'll do a pbpa of the first person to get 5 or so votes.

Why are you asking to do a pbpa when we barely know who to vote, let alone any major suspicion?

FoS: MafiaSSK

[Kinetic]

I'm almost tempted to encourage everyone to vote SSK to five votes so he is forced to do a pbpa of himself. I would find that highly entertaining.

Of course, pbpa in my opinion are nothing more than an overused tactic that proves virtually nothing but makes it seem as if one is participating without actually participating at all.

Vis: I'm glad on second thought you don't find the conversation as scummy, but did you really need to phrase it the way you did? Manners please.

On the point of Cybele, I noted similar things as Arlex, which is primarily the reason I FOSed in my (serious) opening post. However I'm not ready to vote based on just that. I think in a page or two I'm going to re-read and see if I notice anything that starts to peak my radar a little bit before I place a serious vote.

[malthusis]

I'm almost tempted to encourage everyone to vote SSK to five votes so he is forced to do a pbpa of himself. I would find that highly entertaining.

Hey, that was my idea

MafiaSSK looks like he's trying too hard to be townie with trying to do his pbpa. Could someone restate why Cybele is suspicous for me? I'm not really getting why she's suspicous for voting on the SSK wagon.

[Tarhalindur]

"Every day, here and at home, we are warned about the enemy. But who is the enemy? Is it the alien? Well, we are all alien to one another. Is it the one who believes differently than we do? No, oh no, my friends. The enemy is fear. The enemy is ignorance. The enemy is the one who tells you that you must hate that which is different. Because, in the end, that hate will turn on you. And that same hate will destroy you." - Reverend William Dexter

First order of business: Activity has been considerably lower than I would like, but since it's the first week of the game I'm going to be generous and PASS you on the First Mod Deadline Review. If the game continues at this level of activity, expect the current deadline to also be the final deadline.

Malthusis should really remember that unvoting is usually required in Tar games.

Veerus's V/LA status is noted.

Pacman281292's V/LA status is noted.

Tovarish is being prodded (should have prodded him on Wednesday, sorry about that). DrippingGoofball is V/LA and will not be prodded. The Internet and populartajo narrowly avoid prodding by posting before I got around to handing out prods. VisMaior is easily meeting the activity requirements and as such will not be prodded.

I am still searching for a replacement for soaperguy29. - Tar

The Sixth Vote Count (aka the "War Prayer" Vote Count):

Vote Count:

VisMaior (2) - cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer), armlx
Empking (0)
malthusis (0)
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon) (0)
Cybele (1) - armlx
MafiaSSK (2) - Mana_Ku, Darox (rep. seraphim)
armlx (1) - Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon)
Darox (rep. seraphim) (0)
forbiddanlight (0)
populartajo (0)
Mana_Ku (0)
Natirasha (0)
veerus (1) - DrippingGoofball
The Internet (1) - Tovarish
DrippingGoofball (1) - The Internet
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (3) - RandomGem, forbiddanlight, malthusis
pacman281292 (0)
RandomGem (2) - pacman281292, Cybele
hp [leaves] (2) - Empking, VisMaior
soaperguy21 (0)
Tovarish (1) - veerus

Not Voting (5): MafiaSSK, populartajo, Natirasha, hp [leaves], soaperguy29

Votes required to lynch: 12

FoS Count:

VisMaior
Empking (1) - forbiddanlight
malthusis
Kinetic (rep. MBPikamon)
Cybele
MafiaSSK (1) - malthusis
armlx (1) - VisMaior
Darox (rep. seraphim) (1) - hp [leaves]
forbiddanlight (1) - Empking
populartajo (1) - veerus
Mana_Ku
Natirasha
veerus
The Internet (1) - veerus
DrippingGoofball
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer) (1) - malthusis
pacman281292
RandomGem (1) - pacman281292
hp [leaves]
soaperguy21 (1) - veerus
Tovarish

Current Deadline:

October 24, 2008 at ~6:00 P.M. (GMT -6)

Second Mod Deadline Review:

October 17, 2008 at ~6:00 P.M. (GMT -6)

[Darox]

Is a policy lynch actually being considered?

No, I'm pretty sure this was Darox setting up to trap scum on a policy wagon. Its a good trick, it just loses a lot of value between uses.

It does depend a lot on the people playing as well.

[Natirasha]

Fine then, let's do something interesting.

My role implies that there are at least two survivors in this game. I want them to come forward and tell me why I shouldn't kill them right now

[malthusis]

@Nat: Why do you think they'll come forward and why should I believe you?

[Natirasha]

@Nat: Why do you think they'll come forward and why should I believe you?

Because.

And why shouldn't they believe me.

[Empking]

Yeah, if you're a survivor claim.

[Kinetic]

I'm not so sure... I've read a lot on survivor tactics, but I can't understand why they would out themselves? What would it gain them?

I understand the basic idea, a survivor who claims gains immunity (of a sort) from town, because they want to kill scum and survivors aren't good plays... they're better than town plays, but they're not good plays. They also gain partial immunity from scum for the same reason, but one that HURTS the town (If the town has power roles, it increases the chance that scum can hit them with a random kill.) Not to mention how are we to know that a survivor is not a scumbag trying to hide from lynch? That's two negative points and one null point, in my opinion survivor claims are at best a negative play for town (and a neutral play for survivors.).

Additionally, if we leave the survivors in play, they are effectively townies in the beginning, but become scum later in the game. Why? Because survivors have no loyalty. If helping the scum lynch gives them the ability to survive, they win even if the scum win. Therefore, lynching survivors is not a bad play for town in mid-end game, so that's a negative from the survivor side, and at best a slight positive for town. Hunting survivors is a distraction from hunting scum, who we should be hunting.

Plus, I don't like this. Natirasha you stated your role has to do with survivors, but I can't understand how. Are you a survivor hunter? If the survivors come out are they giving you what you want?

I would prefer some clarification on why YOU want the survivors to reveal themselves before I support that sort of push.

Either way, I don't exactly understand how you intend to enforce your little threat... "TELL ME WHO YOU ARE OR I'LL KILL YOU (even though I can only kill you if I know who you are...)"

No, I don't understand you at all.

[Empking]

There are many reasons for a survivor to claim, therefore:

If you're a survivor claim.

[Kinetic]

Without naming any of them. Bravo on failing this thread.

[hp [leaves]]

Any survivor/villager claims would hurt the town so it isn't a good time for it.

[Empking]

Survivopr claims are completely different from Villager claims. Personally, I feel that the fact that you attempted to lump them in together very suspicious.

[armlx]

I'm down with Survivors claiming.

[Kinetic]

Well I've named quite a few reason why I think Survivors claiming would be at best a null result for town, and at worst horribly negative. Maybe someone could explain why it might be good...

And my concerns about Nash are still here, I'd like him to answer me some questions please.

And may I ask why you're equating villagers and survivors? I haven't heard any discussion about a villager role previous to your own mention of it hp...

[populartajo]

Can anyone explain me in few words what the hell is a survivor?

[Kinetic]

A survivor is a player with a win condition that involves them surviving to end game. A survivor can win even if another faction wins the game (such as town or scum). A survivor can not win the game if they are ever lynched or night killed.

There are some variations on these basic principals, but generally a survivor starts from those basic rules and then his role can be altered to turn him into a survivor variant.

[hp [leaves]]

I thought the villager claims would also make the mafia target the other people of the town, making the power roles easier to hit. Was I wrong?

[populartajo]

Why would a survivor claim if its reasonable for them to keep quiet?
Did I read it wrong or Nat just claimed he can kill people?

[MafiaSSK]

I'm okay with the survivors claiming.

[malthusis]

@Everyone: Are you sure survivors aren't nessecaily 'true' survivors in this game? I'm thinking they probably have more conditions to win.

@Nat: I think I have a reason for you saying what you did, you probably have a win condition that says kill all survivors.

[Empking]

I thought the villager claims would also make the mafia target the other people of the town, making the power roles easier to hit. Was I wrong?

What villiager claims?