Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

An unrelated point: Does stef being in the japanese mafia imply two mafias?

[Seraphim]

First off, I plan on actually reading the topic and posting this time around. Then I'll make a post that is actually relevant. But, first, to answer the question...

I do believe there are at two Mafia families. The first clearly killed a member of the opposing family, so there's now a Mafia family with one less member. The second kill may be the Cult Leader who tried to recruit a Mafia member or the second Mafia family's kill.

Another unrelated question: Did the Cult Leader recruit anyone, and if so, is it important now or is the cult now disbanded?

[ShadowGirl]

Awesome night. <3 Wow, this thread moves quick.

Vote: Black Adder

I've been getting minor scum vibes ever since this snippet:

So, vote: populartajo. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

Hn, I think the quick hammer is a null tell at this point.

[skitzer]

Empking: and the killing of a mafia goon wasn't a good thing?

I'd like to look closer at the BlakAdder case, as it does seem promissing.

[curiouskarmadog]

set up thoughts

the mod has experience in modding a game with two mafia teams. In that game there was no cross kill (wolves and mafia). If we have two mafias, I bet we also have a vig (of some sort) unless he is allowing cross kills. With evidence of a cult, I doubt we have a SK, but nothing should be ruled out.

I dont think we should worry (atm) about a cultist..it is not priority, but should be discussed later.

[armlx]

CKD's hammer was not at all too quick. PT was obviously false claiming and needed to be lynched. The fact he was lying townie rather then lying scum doesn't change anything as his lie was 100% anti-town.

TSN: It probably does imply that.

Seraphim: If there was a successful cult recruit last night its probably not an issue, as for all intents and purposes that person is still a townie for now, at least until the mafia presence is diminished a fair amount. Also, in the last DR game with a cult I was in, the culties reverted upon the leader's death, so its possible there's none at all.

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, quick thoughts:

Players who I think are probably scum, in order of decreasing scumminess: BlakAdder, Haschel Cedricson, Empking, Electra, Seraphim, Skitzer, Sierra

BlakAdder: I'd really like to add my own reasoning here, but CKD already covered all the good reasons why BlakAdder is scum.

Haschel Cedricson: Post 246 is scummy as all hell - it's even more blatantly Information Instead of Analysis than Skitzer's 180. Take a look at it and note how Haschel carefully summarizes what other players have done but draws almost NO conclusions from that summarization. (I'll go in-depth on 246 later on, it deserves a post of its own.) Also note the way he phrases his objection to tajo's offer to claim "for real this time" - he finds it "odd". That screams "scum who doesn't want to get pinned to a townie lynch" to me.

Empking: Reappeared after lurking through almost all of Day 1 to push the tajo bandwagon with no reasoning, noted BlakAdder's attempt to clear Stef but didn't follow up on it, makes a veiled attack on CKD for the tajo hammer, explicitly notes that night was good for town (YES, THAT IS A SCUMTELL), launches an attack on COD for the tajo hammer.

Electra: Appears suddenly after lurking through almost all of Day 1 to push populartajo to L-1 with no more reasoning than a simple "I agree with PLAYERNAME".

Seraphim: Post 236 is pure Mafia theory, and as far as I can tell he hasn't been scumhunting at all - in other words, Information Instead of Analysis.

Skitzer: Post 180 was already IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis) and looks very, very bad now that Stef has come up scum, has been extremely unwilling to take a firm position in this game.

Sierra: I still don't like how he avoided taking a side on Stef when Stef was pressed early on.

I doubt that all of these players are scum (given the nature of game balance, we should have no more than 5 scum remaining - the worst-case scenario should be one of 4 Mafia + Cult Recruit and 3 Mafia + SK + Cult Recruit), but they are the players I think we should be looking at.

Note 1: CKD looks pretty damn town to me right now, a few minor scummy actions notwithstanding. In particular, Stef's reaction to CKD's hammer does NOT look like bussing - it looks like trying to set up a second mislynch.

Note 2: I doubt we have two full Mafia groups, based mainly on the existence of a Cult. Mafia + SK sounds more plausible to me.

Vote: BlakAdder

[Dead Rikimaru]

Uncle Leopold's Votecount

BlakAdder

(5): curiouskarmadog, armlx, TheSweatpantsNinja, ShadowGirl, Tarhalindur

curiouskarmadog

(1): Empking

Not voting

(15): skitzer, Haschel Cedricson, Seraphim, Cybele, Erratus Apathos, Ku_F, Electra, DynamoXI, GhostWriter, Jebus, massive, Rush, sekinj, Sierra, BlakAdder
Deadline is on

November 10

Needed for a lynch: 11 votes
If by deadline no one has 11 votes the player with more votes is lynched
If two players share the top score of votes lynch is decided by

duel

[curiouskarmadog]

Note 1: CKD looks pretty damn town to me right now, a few minor scummy actions notwithstanding. In particular, Stef's reaction to CKD's hammer does NOT look like bussing - it looks like trying to set up a second mislynch.

if you really valued my input into this game you would not state this unprovoked. If anyone else thinks this, keep it to yourself for obvious reasons. And not that I want to argue someone defending me, but if there are two mafia teams, my interactions with Stef posthammer, only suggests my non affilation with one of those teams. I say this because I dont want people getting in the mind set that person X is obv town because of interaction with a particular scum.

[BlakAdder]

Whoa, seriously? This game's moving pretty quickly.
Anyway, I don't see how my comments were scummy. I didn't see anything scummy from Stef besides a potential connection to tajo.
@CKD, I saw tajo's attempted deflection of the Stef wagon as scummy, again, because of a potential connection.
@TSPN: How did saying that Stef would be partially cleared make me scummy?

[Seraphim]

@Tarlindur

First off, I plan on actually reading the topic and posting this time around. Then I'll make a post that is actually relevant.

I will definitely play more actively in this next day. I just need more time to read through the topic, which I'll admit I have been rather lax in doing. I was merely making an observation based on that night's kills.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

@TSPN: How did saying that Stef would be partially cleared make me scummy?

You really need to ask? You deflected attention from one player who came up scum (stef) to another player who came up town (tajo) at a time when they were the two competing wagons for lynch, and also said that if tajo came up town, that was indication of stef's townieness. Which was pretty terrible logic and pretty clear linkage to stef.

[BlakAdder]

I fail to see how I was deflecting attention from Stef. Also, I don't see how this is terrible logic, since tajo was the one buddying up to Stef.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am not sure how Pop was buddying up with Stef...but lets say he was...why was that scummy yesterday? How does Pop flipping town, partially clear Stef? EXPLAIN IT TO ME, dont just state it over and over again.

what is your definition of "buddying" up?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

There were two competing wagons, one on tajo, and one on stef. You linked stef's scumminess to tajo's, effectively saying that tajo's lynch would help determine stef's alignment. This would have (had it not been shouted down) deflected attention from stef's wagon to tajo's,

in addition

to making stef look better once tajo came up town. Your actions make

perfect sense

from stef's scumbuddy.

Oh, and its pretty evident that the logic was poor, seeing as how tajo came up town and stef came up scum.

[BlakAdder]

Okay. On day one, when I have no confirmed roles to go on, I see anyone buddying up a potentially scummy. Tajo was deflecting suspicion from Stef, so I saw that as scum working together. Since tajo was the the one actively deflecting suspicion from Stef, if he was town, then the case would lose some force behind it.
My definition of buddying is any act of scum working together during the day. This includes deflecting suspicion and distancing.

[BlakAdder]

@TSPN: That's why I said partially cleared. I would still watch Stef as I would any other player, but I would not attack him for being Tajo's scumbuddy. The fact that I could be deflecting suspicion from Stef had not even occurred to me at the time, especially since the Stef wagon did not have as much steam at that point.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Not really clear on how that's a response to the accusation of you deflecting from stef to tajo.

[BlakAdder]

Not really sure how much better I can explain this. It seems that you're trying to lead me into a hole by asking questions that I can't really answer.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Note: That applies to your first post. Your second post, is, in fact, a response. Its not convincing, especially as claiming the stef wagon didn't have much steam is sort of odd when you're talking about the second-largest wagon.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Not really sure how much better I can explain this. It seems that you're trying to lead me into a hole by asking questions that I can't really answer.

(Damn simulposts): Actually, you asked

me

questions. I'm describing a scenarion in which your play as scum makes sense, moreso than any other player yesterday, which is why I'm voting for you.

[BlakAdder]

My first post was a reply to CKD, not you. I didn't see your post until after I replied.
Also, I only said that because I didn't see the Stef wagon getting much bigger.

[curiouskarmadog]

My definition of buddying is any act of scum working together during the day. This includes deflecting suspicion and distancing.

so then, given that you want us to believe you dont have clue about anyone's alignment, ANYTHING could be considered buddying up in your point of view. How do you know who is distancing with anyone else? Was Stef, buddying (distancing) up with me when he attacked me for my hammer yesterday? I am buddying up with you by attacking (distancing) you today. Is Emp buddying up with you by attacking me (deflecting).

is tar buddying up with me, when he says I am obv town?

your logic..or I think assumptions are confusing.

[BlakAdder]

I only considered tajo's defense of Stef a scumtell because it was weak and because he had no other reason to defend Stef. All of the things you listed are potential scumtells if they are accompanied by other scummy behavior. Except, where did you see the tar buddying with you comment? I don't recall that one.

[Rush]

curiouskarmadog

for speed lynching