Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[SleepyPanda]

Ok you obvilousley don't get it. Perhaps because English is not your first language, but I made the points I wanted to make in a very long post that took a lot of time to compose. I illustared the points I wanted to make on Charters case/Cephrir, I did not expcet you to say, yep I am scum and I never said they were a huge part of the case. I have answered your question to my satisfaction and in a way it is clear to the others who are considering voting for you.

Stop bringing up that I might not understand because English isn't my first language. I understand. There's no language barrier.

What you've illustrated were charter and Ceph's opinions. Tell me if I'm wrong. Do you think they aren't opinions? Quoting opinions does not make it clear. That's why I'm asking you to summarize their case in your own words. You ignored my request once again, which I assume means you won't be doing it. Why not?

The more you hold onto opinions, citing them as legitmate reasons, to try and get us lynched is only convincing me that you are indeed the other scum pair.

[WaltWishbone]

Ok you obvilousley don't get it. Perhaps because English is not your first language, but I made the points I wanted to make in a very long post that took a lot of time to compose. I illustared the points I wanted to make on Charters case/Cephrir, I did not expcet you to say, yep I am scum and I never said they were a huge part of the case. I have answered your question to my satisfaction and in a way it is clear to the others who are considering voting for you.

Stop bringing up that I might not understand because English isn't my first language. I understand. There's no language barrier.

What you've illustrated were charter and Ceph's opinions. Tell me if I'm wrong. Do you think they aren't opinions? Quoting opinions does not make it clear. That's why I'm asking you to summarize their case in your own words. You ignored my request once again, which I assume means you won't be doing it. Why not?

The more you hold onto opinions, citing them as legitmate reasons, to try and get us lynched is only convincing me that you are indeed the other scum pair.

I was waiting for the OMGUS, you STOP bringing it up then. I have answered your question clearly, if it is not to your satisfaction there is nothing I can do, however nobody here expected you to say yes we are the scum.

The timestamps is a great indication and I think my case proves you are the best lynch.

[Raging Rabbit]

You're both going into an infinite circle discussion. I think it's quite obvious at this point that Walt has said all he's going to about charter/Ceph's case, so I don't see what you think the continuing questioning of it is achieving, Panda.

The more you hold onto opinions, citing them as legitmate reasons, to try and get us lynched is only convincing me that you are indeed the

other

scum pair.

I guess it's possible you cosider charter completely confirmed scum, but that sentence still doesn't sit too well with me.

[SleepyPanda]

I was waiting for the OMGUS, you STOP bringing it up then. I have answered your question clearly, if it is not to your satisfaction there is nothing I can do, however nobody here expected you to say yes we are the scum.

The boy who cried OMGUS. Am I voting you? Am I saying you're scum for no apparent reason?

If you did not say either "I think they are opinions" or "I think they are not opinions", you have not answered it clearly, or at all from what I can tell.

You address everything in my post except about summarizing charter's case. Guess you really can't do it.

[SleepyPanda]

The more you hold onto opinions, citing them as legitmate reasons, to try and get us lynched is only convincing me that you are indeed the

other

scum pair.

I guess it's possible you cosider charter completely confirmed scum, but that sentence still doesn't sit too well with me.

He's the person who I'm most sure is scum. I have no reason to think otherwise.

Are you telling me you are voting charter when you have doubts whether or not he's actually scum? If you have doubts, I'd like to hear them.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Walt, stop misreping me. I never said I would never vote for SP/Armlx or Sek/Neko, I said I couldn't see any valid case against them at this point beyond the timestamps, and that I wouldn't policy lynch based on timestamps alone.

[WaltWishbone]

I was waiting for the OMGUS, you STOP bringing it up then. I have answered your question clearly, if it is not to your satisfaction there is nothing I can do, however nobody here expected you to say yes we are the scum.

The boy who cried OMGUS. Am I voting you? Am I saying you're scum for no apparent reason?

If you did not say either "I think they are opinions" or "I think they are not opinions", you have not answered it clearly, or at all from what I can tell.

You address everything in my post except about summarizing charter's case. Guess you really can't do it.

I already have, if the point you are trying to make is that it does not have any merit. Your point has been made, I am not changing vote I believe it has merit as I have already explained.

[WaltWishbone]

Walt, stop misreping me. I never said I would never vote for SP/Armlx or Sek/Neko, I said I couldn't see any valid case against them at this point beyond the timestamps, and that I wouldn't policy lynch based on timestamps alone.

It's not misrepping you, it's a question, thanks for clarifying.

[armlx]

The level of semantics based attacks is getting unreal. Can we just go back to lynching the people who stalled on the mass claim, opposed it to begin with, then have OMGUS'ed everyone who has attacked them for it?

[charter]

SCUM ARMLX/SLEEPYPANDA

Just make sure you lynch them after me, I'm not going to make a huge case because no one will listen to me anyway, pretty much the whole reason I haven't said anything of merit for a while now, but rest assured that they are, in fact, scum.

[SleepyPanda]

Walt, stop misreping me. I never said I would never vote for SP/Armlx or Sek/Neko, I said I couldn't see any valid case against them at this point beyond the timestamps, and that I wouldn't policy lynch based on timestamps alone.

It's not misrepping you, it's a question, thanks for clarifying.

Nice attempt to try and downplay it. It seemed like you were asking a pretty rhetorical question to me.

The only person who I can see that is willing to give a "free pass" is you. With charter, who majority seems to agree that he has been quite scummy at one time or another, you on the other hand, are willing to attribute all he has done to him just being frustrated. Even with what happened in Day 1 regarding Crazy and his scumtell, you were not willing to let Crazy get a "free pass". Why now? Why charter? The possibility of him being a frustrated townie has been brought up before long ago, and even so, at that time, you continued to vote charter, pressed for his lynch, but now you're doing a complete 180. This seems very much like an attempt at buddying. No one else is defending charter. However, suddenly you decide to; you vote with him, you say what a great case he has presented, out of nowhere. Scum attempting to work together? Mhmm.

SCUM ARMLX/SLEEPYPANDA

Just make sure you lynch them after me, I'm not going to make a huge case because no one will listen to me anyway, pretty much the whole reason I haven't said anything of merit for a while now, but rest assured that they are, in fact, scum.

No one listens to you because every one of your posts has no real content. How does this post differ from the dozens of copies you've been posting over and over? More excuses to try and explain why you've been completely useless too, I see.

[Cephrir]

it may very well be that charter/ceph are mafia and SP are werewolves.

Actually I think it's pretty clear that charter and I are not mafia. My bussing of BM yesterday would have, from my perspective at the time, been complete suicide.

I like how armlx + SP + sekinj = almost everyone who wants to lynch us today.

Also, SP is such frustrated scum. I kinda feel bad because his points actually make a lot of sense.

[WaltWishbone]

Walt, stop misreping me. I never said I would never vote for SP/Armlx or Sek/Neko, I said I couldn't see any valid case against them at this point beyond the timestamps, and that I wouldn't policy lynch based on timestamps alone.

It's not misrepping you, it's a question, thanks for clarifying.

Nice attempt to try and downplay it. It seemed like you were asking a pretty rhetorical question to me.

Nice attempt to create an issue out of thin air. Although fine, if I misrepped, then your statement about posting in daytalk to Armix becomes valid. You can't have it both ways or only the way that works best for scum ajenda. In otherwords, you can't use a semantics defense for your comment if it does not work for mine. We can argue these issues until we are blue in the face, in the end you have to connect the dots and make your own opinion on what is an actual error and what is bullshit.

The only person who I can see that is willing to give a "free pass" is you. With charter, who majority seems to agree that he has been quite scummy at one time or another, you on the other hand, are willing to attribute all he has done to him just being frustrated. Even with what happened in Day 1 regarding Crazy and his scumtell, you were not willing to let Crazy get a "free pass". Why now? Why charter? The possibility of him being a frustrated townie has been brought up before long ago, and even so, at that time, you continued to vote charter, pressed for his lynch, but now you're doing a complete 180. This seems very much like an attempt at buddying. No one else is defending charter. However, suddenly you decide to; you vote with him, you say what a great case he has presented, out of nowhere. Scum attempting to work together? Mhmm.

I have not given him a free pass, if after your lynched, if for some insane reason you flip town. Charter/Cephrir would be one of my top reads going into the day. However, you are not going to flip town. This "scum working together" is the most absurd comment of the day, you don't think very well do you? So the two oppossing scum teams are working together now, what are we using secret code?

As it is, I think you will get your wish, Charter and Cephrir are going to be lynched and if they flip town I am going to drop on you like a ton of bricks if they do.

[SleepyPanda]

I like how armlx + SP + sekinj = almost everyone who wants to lynch us today.

You mean as opposed to everyone else who is only voting so because of timestamps? Silly us for using our heads.

Nice attempt to create an issue out of thin air.

Haha, if you say so. Creating an issue out of thin air is still infinitely better than creating a case out of opinions.

Although fine, if I misrepped, then your statement about posting in daytalk to Armix becomes valid. You can't have it both ways or only the way that works best for scum ajenda. In otherwords, you can't use a semantics defense for your comment if it does not work for mine. We can argue these issues until we are blue in the face, in the end you have to connect the dots and make your own opinion on what is an actual error and what is bullshit.

Yawn. Logical fallacy.

I have not given him a free pass, if after your lynched, if for some insane reason you flip town. Charter/Cephrir would be one of my top reads going into the day. However, you are not going to flip town. This "scum working together" is the most absurd comment of the day, you don't think very well do you? So the two oppossing scum teams are working together now, what are we using secret code?

If we do get lynched, I want a 5 page essay of you apologizing.

Yes, you're using secret codes. That wink was just a secret message. You don't need communication to just vote along with them. As long as it's beneficial to you, you can just follow behind him, which is what you're doing.

As it is, I think you will get your wish, Charter and Cephrir are going to be lynched and if they flip town I am going to drop on you like a ton of bricks if they do.

Well, why don't you speed up the process and vote him then? Even though charter is the deadline lynch, you won't because you want to keep him alive.

[Raging Rabbit]

He's the person who I'm most sure is scum. I have no reason to think otherwise.

Are you telling me you are voting charter when you have doubts whether or not he's actually scum? If you have doubts, I'd like to hear them.

He's my best suspect as well, by far, and I'd really like to finally see him lynched. That does not mean I'm sure enough to auto-assume he's scum before I see the results, being 100% sure of anything in a setup with no power roles is never the right move.

Actually I think it's pretty clear that charter and I are not mafia. My bussing of BM yesterday would have, from my perspective at the time, been complete suicide.

I like how armlx + SP + sekinj = almost everyone who wants to lynch us today.

Also, SP is such frustrated scum. I kinda feel bad because his points actually make a lot of sense

Not a singe one of these sentences makes any sense.

[WaltWishbone]

Nice attempt to create an issue out of thin air.

Haha, if you say so. Creating an issue out of thin air is still infinitely better than creating a case out of opinions.

Listen here and listen well, this entire game is based on opinions, by the purest definition of the word. It is not a clear sign of guilt if a player is strawmanning, Bussing, distancing, omgus, or using WIFOM. These are not tangible facts; innocent people do these things as well and if someone is lynched for any of these reasons it is because an opinion is formed on whether or not these acts were those of scum.

Emperical evidenve or absolute truth is based on fact, in otherwords something tangible that can be proved such as a "Telephone record". It can be proved someone lied about calling someone else if a telephone record is produced. There is little such luck here with the exception of the TIMESTAMPS. That is FACT and the only FACT that has been introduced this entire game. I agree it can be argued and there are certain things that could make it not indicative of scum, however very few. So my OPINION based on this FACT and the other evidence collected against you is that you are scum!

Although fine, if I misrepped, then your statement about posting in daytalk to Armix becomes valid. You can't have it both ways or only the way that works best for scum ajenda. In otherwords, you can't use a semantics defense for your comment if it does not work for mine. We can argue these issues until we are blue in the face, in the end you have to connect the dots and make your own opinion on what is an actual error and what is bullshit.

Yawn. Logical fallacy.

I didn't think you would agree your town right?

I have not given him a free pass, if after your lynched, if for some insane reason you flip town. Charter/Cephrir would be one of my top reads going into the day. However, you are not going to flip town. This "scum working together" is the most absurd comment of the day, you don't think very well do you? So the two oppossing scum teams are working together now, what are we using secret code?

If we do get lynched, I want a 5 page essay of you apologizing.

You will get an apology, but I feel safe in stating that because you are scum.

Yes, you're using secret codes. That wink was just a secret message. You don't need communication to just vote along with them. As long as it's beneficial to you, you can just follow behind him, which is what you're doing.

Now you think we are using secret code? Talk about a stretch.

As it is, I think you will get your wish, Charter and Cephrir are going to be lynched and if they flip town I am going to drop on you like a ton of bricks if they do.

Well, why don't you speed up the process and vote him then? Even though charter is the deadline lynch, you won't because you want to keep him alive.

You are right, I don't want them lynched. The problem here is the numbers, I think you figured it out but no one else has. If we lose two more townies, we are going to be hard pressed to win the vote counts. If you do the math, without their vote, we more then likely will not be able to win this game. This next lynch is extremely important.

I might consider voting for them if you agreed to vote yourself if they flip town.

[Raging Rabbit]

While I disagree with Walt's case, I'm starting to dislike how Panda keeps using a patronizing tone that's goading him on. This back and forth stopped being informative a long time ago and is now just an absurd lash out.

[ThAdmiral]

This is actually quite sad. Opinions are extremely important, so what if we throw our opinions out there? That's how mafia is played.

This seems like something scum would say so they can form a case on nothing but opinions. This is only my opinion, but hopefully if I repeat it enough, it will eventually convince everyone else. Let's all vote charter because of this.

Opinions alone do nothing. Opinions supported by facts, combined to form a case is different.

I had a feeling that nek/sekinj were scum. Is that alone enough to vote them? If you say yes here, that is sad.

This is a weak argument, and frankly sounds a bit desperate.

[SleepyPanda]

He's my best suspect as well, by far, and I'd really like to finally see him lynched. That does not mean I'm sure enough to auto-assume he's scum before I see the results, being 100% sure of anything in a setup with no power roles is never the right move.

I never called him confirmed scum. I never called you confirmed scum either. I was making an educated guess.

Emperical evidenve or absolute truth is based on fact, in otherwords something tangible that can be proved such as a "Telephone record". It can be proved someone lied about calling someone else if a telephone record is produced. There is little such luck here with the exception of the TIMESTAMPS. That is FACT and the only FACT that has been introduced this entire game. I agree it can be argued and there are certain things that could make it not indicative of scum, however very few. So my OPINION based on this FACT and the other evidence collected against you is that you are scum!

What exactly are you talking about here? How are a player's actions not considered a "record"? I'm voting charter right now. Is that not fact? Are you going to argue that I'm not voting him? This one and only FACT you are basing your opinions on, it is the same FACT that the mod DISPROVED?

I didn't think you would agree your town right? Wink

Go wiki logical fallacy. It has your name all over it.

Now you think we are using secret code? Talk about a stretch.

It was sarcasm. Notice the sentences immediately after saying the complete opposite?

While I disagree with Walt's case, I'm starting to dislike how Panda keeps using a patronizing tone that's goading him on. This back and forth stopped being informative a long time ago and is now just an absurd lash out.

I disagree that it is not informative. Some bits might be irrelavent, but I'm able to get a better read than I would if he stopped talking.

You seem to just want him to stop talking altogether. What for? What else is on the table now that needs discussion? Do we all have such a one-track mind that we can only have one discussion going at a time?

This is a weak argument, and frankly sounds a bit desperate.

Desparate how? To get charter lynched? When he is already majority lynch at deadline?

Basing a case solely on opinion is weak. You seem to disagree. So is basing a case on opinion alone perfectly fine?

[Raging Rabbit]

I never called him confirmed scum. I never called you confirmed scum either. I was making an educated guess.

The way you seem to be looking for the

other

scum pair now implies

knowing

who one scumpair is, imo.

I disagree that it is not informative. Some bits might be irrelavent, but I'm able to get a better read than I would if he stopped talking.

You seem to just want him to stop talking altogether. What for? What else is on the table now that needs discussion? Do we all have such a one-track mind that we can only have one discussion going at a time?

I'd rather go back to discuss things that have any sort of value rather than watch you two have a pissing contest. None of your responses to Walt in this post go anywhere near anything actually relevant.

[WaltWishbone]

Emperical evidenve or absolute truth is based on fact, in otherwords something tangible that can be proved such as a "Telephone record". It can be proved someone lied about calling someone else if a telephone record is produced. There is little such luck here with the exception of the TIMESTAMPS. That is FACT and the only FACT that has been introduced this entire game. I agree it can be argued and there are certain things that could make it not indicative of scum, however very few. So my OPINION based on this FACT and the other evidence collected against you is that you are scum!

What exactly are you talking about here? How are a player's actions not considered a "record"? I'm voting charter right now. Is that not fact? Are you going to argue that I'm not voting him? This one and only FACT you are basing your opinions on, it is the same FACT that the mod DISPROVED?

It is fact you are voting for Charter. It is also fact you voted for Cerebus a townie. The timestamp theory was not disproved it was cautioned, to ignore it completely is handing the game to the scum.

Basing a case solely on opinion is weak. You seem to disagree. So is basing a case on opinion alone perfectly fine?

Why don't you tell us? You partner Armix voted for Kloud & Harvey Pew, both Townies. You voted for Cerebus a townie, so obviously it was not a FACT that they were scum, it was an OPINION. Your opinions were wrong.

[sekinj]

I think maybe walt and SP were meant to be lovers... a love/hate relationship...

[Crazy]

SCUM ARMLX/SLEEPYPANDA

Just make sure you lynch them after me, I'm not going to make a huge case because no one will listen to me anyway, pretty much the whole reason I haven't said anything of merit for a while now, but rest assured that they are, in fact, scum.

Neither of you is a good lynch, btw. Armlx, maybe later. You, you're looking much better now.

[charter]

Actually, I kind of want to be lynched. I can't see any way that armlx/SP can weasel their way out trouble when the obvious is confirmed. I feel that a one for one trade with scum here would be quite good, and once armlx/SP are lynched, I honestly don't have much of a clue who the last scum are, and I'm really not looking forward to a 95 page reread to figure it out.

[Crazy]

Actually, I kind of want to be lynched. I can't see any way that armlx/SP can weasel their way out trouble when the obvious is confirmed. I feel that a one for one trade with scum here would be quite good, and once armlx/SP are lynched, I honestly don't have much of a clue who the last scum are, and I'm really not looking forward to a 95 page reread to figure it out.

Umm, how exactly will proving that you're innocent prove them guilty. Townies are uninformed as far as I know. o_o

Sekinj is scum. It's proven. Lynch him. Now.