Newbie 682 - Mayhem in Umore - Game Over, Scum Win!

[nureins]

Just in case you want to know my answers too...

Dej, let me try reframing my question. You think I am scum because of my supposed connection to Chuck, yes? Namely early coaching and my reaction to his claim. This is correct, yes?

Probably NOT. Once Chucky is revealed scum, an important factor is also how Chucky treated you all along the game .

but do you think that poor play from both of them is enough to connect them as partners? Do you see any other links, like you see with me and Chuck, that makes you think they're scum together?

He already answered that Seb is not his target, but you. Your attempt to find allies or deviate attention is soooo desperate...
And the answer is NO. All links point out to you. Chucky put seb at L-1 even at the cost of being suspicious, and with very good excuses not to do (couple of players remaining to comment). This makes their connection, especially considering they are very noobs, almost impossible.

[seb456zig]

lets say we kill off Chuck, and hez mafia.
then rand dies
then we kill Mirth, innocent
rand death
I die (innocent)
rand death

3ppl left
now i realy hope Mirth is mafia
my theory can only be stuffed up one way (not telling how just in case)

We r left with 3 people, and town votes town, mafia hammers, that townie dies.
This last unlucky Umorian dies and this random mafia member wins.
NOW! try to tell me to look on the bright side of life. Remember, if what I say is true, WE ALL LOSE! We need a better game plan. This is all riding on Mirth's role. Sorta like flipping a coin, except its more likely to be town. 1 in 8 (i think, coz we dont count Chuck). If anyone has a better idea for a game plan I'll be very happy to hear it.

NOW ASK YOURSELVES THIS, WOULD A TOWNIE POST THIS?

[seb456zig]

proof of chucks scummieness, no hammers for ages, even if some (chuck) are waiting for one.

[seb456zig]

disregard last post. coz every time i read page 13 mirth seems more and more scummie, and no this isnt an emotional post. im just wondering who else feels it when they read it.

[seb456zig]

ebwop disregard 326, not last.

and sorry for the quadruple-post(yes that's what it's called)

[Mirth]

Nur, why don't you let Dej answer for himself. I am completely disliking how you're making stuff up out of air now. I have said multiple times now that I DO NOT THINK CHUCK AND SEB ARE PARTNERS. I think you are partners with Chuck, especially considering how you're just making up totally false accusations against me.

Did I coach Chuck? yes
Did I overreact? I don't think so, but you may disagree with this.
Did Chuck buddy up to me? Yes
Have I been trying to forge a link between Chuck and Seb? No, and you'd know that if you actually read my posts.

I am saying that when you lynch me, the next logical step is *not* Seb, as Dej suggests. It is you.

[nureins]

Nur, why don't you let Dej answer for himself.

Why should I ? My task as a town is discover scum. I point out what I consider relevant for this task.

Did I coach Chuck? yes

Now you admit it ?

I am saying that when you lynch me, the next logical step is *not* Seb, as Dej suggests. It is you.

If you think so...but according to your argument, you will not be around to comment or to lynch me in day 3. So better if you discuss your case against me, as currently nobody seems to see it. Go go and build the case. I want to laugh a little bit.

[ChuckNorris]

Yawn. I played a bad game. Hey anyone, can you tell me what I need to do better at being Mafia? Also how to play better as a townie?

[nureins]

Yawn. I played a bad game. Hey anyone, can you tell me what I need to do better at being Mafia? Also how to play better as a townie?

Read how Mirth played. She did it much better than you. For a townie, read caf, he played very well too.

[dejkha]

Dej, let me try reframing my question. You think I am scum because of my supposed connection to Chuck, yes? Namely early coaching and my reaction to his claim. This is correct, yes? Thus you think that Chuck and I are partners because of this.

Not "because of" that, but yes that help in making the decision quite a bit.

Would you think I was definately scum if Chuck had not admitted himself to be? Probably not.

Correct. It would have only been evidence that you could be scum. Since Chuck is supposedly scum, I'm taking your behavior as... communication between partners (not sure how I would phrase what I was trying to say). If Chuck is not scum, then I will reconsider and just keep an eye on you for any other scummy behavior.

My question here is this: yes, Seb is scummy and his play has been poor, but do you think that poor play from both of them is enough to connect them as partners? Do you see any other links, like you see with me and Chuck, that makes you think they're scum together?

The thing with Seb is that he was one of the first ones I suspected, so I'm not linking him to Chuck based on their interactions with each other (like I am doing more of with you), but rather his individual scummy behavior earlier. The only thing I can see linking them as partners is their similar reaction when under pressure. If Chuck didn't claim he was scum, I still would have suspected Seb, but I would yet to have any real idea of who his partner would be.

I hope that answered your question. If not, sorry. I know what you mean I just wasn't able to word it properly.

NOW ASK YOURSELVES THIS, WOULD A TOWNIE POST THIS?

I would suggest not making statements like that, since it doesn't help you at all

I am saying that when you lynch me, the next logical step is *not* Seb, as Dej suggests. It is you.

That's what I don't understand. Why nureins? Maybe I'm just missing why you suspect him. The only thing I could find myself suspecting him for is when Chuck said nureins was his partner, but I already said why that's unlikely. If you'd like to make a post explaining to me (or tell me where you said it) why you suspect him, please do.

[caf19]

For a townie, read caf, he played very well too.

Did I?

Of course, game's not over just yet so we can't make final judgments with total confidence. I'm eager to get on with things, though.

Hey anyone, can you tell me what I need to do better at being Mafia?

Honestly, your over-reaction to suspicion is what did for you. You drew attention to yourself with unnecessary aggression towards nureins and his cases, and you still weren't exactly done for until you decided to tell us all you're scum. People are going to suspect you in any game of mafia you play, and you have to deal with it.

[nureins]

For a townie, read caf, he played very well too.

Did I?

Of course, game's not over just yet so we can't make final judgments with total confidence. I'm eager to get on with things, though.

Yes, you did. You had eyes open and made reasoned comments that help other townies to conform good views.

Of course, maybe we are wrong. Not today, almost sure. Not tomorrow, with high confidence. But even being like that, before any lynching in day 2 ill revise the game densely.

[Mirth]

Nur your job is not to intimidate other people into not speaking. As for coaching, I've admitted it all along. I'm playing as an IC coaching newbies.

As to why Nur, let me try to spell it out a bit more clearly.

First and foremost, Chuck's claim. He claimed Nur and then backtracked. While it is possible he claimed this because Nur was on his back, and not just because he gave up and tried to ruin the game (some people have outted their scum partners without reservations), it is very possible that he is telling the truth that Nur is in fact his partner. Additionally, look at Nur's early attacks on him. Nur's attacks on Chuck at the beginning are trying to link him to me. I fully admit I am coaching, but I am coaching with IC advice. While this may link me to Chuck, the way Nur attempts to forge this link is very bothersome. He won't commit to fullout suspicion yet will make passive aggressive remarks at me. Furthermore, Nur's early "case" against me never sat well. He said it was to start discussion, but I don't think I buy this. He admitted not getting a complete mod-voting meta on me after I questioned him about it, but he also said even if he had, he wouldn't have used all of it, just the parts he cited. The fact that he admitted to not reading the whole thing is what bothers me most, looking back at him. The "trap" he set was incomplete, and he, since he has games under his belt, should have known that. His general misrepresentations of what I have been saying throughout the game also bother me. As is his current attempt to buddy up to Caf, who, to be honest, isn't putting forth an obvtownie game. He is not being scummy, yes, but my no means obv.townie.

Lastly, look at the way that he has been responding to me since Chuck's claim. He is twisting my words around. Even though you clearly understood what I meant by my questions about Seb and Chuck (especially since I spelled it out that I highly doubt they are partners before questioning you), he is trying to assert that I am trying to get Seb lynched instead of myself. This is out and out lying. I have stated time and again that it's between me and him for day 2, not Seb. So I ask you to read over his play again.

While there may be a connection between me and Chuck, regardless of the sort or reason, look at Nur's behavior toward me and toward Chuck.

[The Fancy Mr Fancy]

Well I've read up and here's my analysis. While I admit it would be foolish not to rid ourselves of chuck after his scumclaim, my FOS is currently on Nur. I don't like his tactics at all. From the start of the game he has been twisting words, asking unneccesary questions and generally creating an atmosphere of confusion. Recently he also seems to be a little too sure of the guilt of mirth and chuck. As a fairly experienced player he should know that after day 1 theres no way he can know for sure of someones guilt yet he's talking as if he does. While I admire Nur's analysis and his commitment I wish he were doing something more useful with it. Regardless of whether he is mafia or not I find his input counter-intuitive and definitely not pro-town.

Nur and Chuck are by no means the only targets of my suspicion but I felt that these were the only pressing points worth raising at the moment.

Still, Chuck is the main candidate for my vote, although i'll refrain from hammering until we get another replacement or hear from some inactive players.

[nureins]

Since Mirth is quite scummy, I will answer your post first.

Well I've read up and here's my analysis. While I admit it would be foolish not to rid ourselves of chuck after his scumclaim, my FOS is currently on Nur.

Can you describe which of my attacks to chucky is a scumtell ?
Can you describe which of my attacks to Mirth is a scumtell?
Thanks.

I don't like his tactics at all. From the start of the game he has been twisting words, asking unneccesary questions and generally creating an atmosphere of confusion.

Chuck and Mirth were using the fact that Seb was a very inexperienced player. Especially the second. Please tell me which of my questions are unnecessary and where is the confusion. I drove my own wagon to Chuck. Chuck is scum. CONFUSION ? ha

Recently he also seems to be a little too sure of the guilt of mirth and chuck. As a fairly experienced player he should know that after day 1 theres no way he can know for sure of someones guilt yet he's talking as if he does.

My confidence on Chuck is 99 per cent. And I guess that for everybody around is above 90 per cent. If you have a different opinion, please share it with us. Comment my case, defend chucky and so on and so forth.

Second, my confidence on Mirth is 95 per cent. And I guess that for most people around is quite high. Maybe not as much as mine. But it was me, remember, who built the major part of the case against chucky, and directed my attack. My attack was based in weakening him separating him from Mirth, since chucky acted as if Mirth was his master. Master and doggie. First you take the doggie and you separate it from the master. You lynch the doggie. Then you lynch the master as the doggie has left enough information to recognize who the master is.

I will write my view at the very moment of starting day 2. Just in case I die, my suspicions are open and clear. And the basics of my case have been also commented. Mirth reaction panicking with how Chucky was giving information is more information.

The fact that I have a fair confidence in this case is because I analyzed deeply the case and found lot of symptoms. I am not SURE. I am just pretty confident, with very very very high probability. If you are not, please share with us WHY, and in WHICH POINTS of my analysis I am wrong. Ill be delighted to discuss them.

While I admire Nur's analysis and his commitment I wish he were doing something more useful with it.

Such as what ?? Again, you have not given any point to support this view.

Regardless of whether he is mafia or not I find his input counter-intuitive and definitely not pro-town.

Now, it is you who is not waiting for day 1. Lets see if chucky is scum. Then tell me about. Again, I did a clear case. Go and answer it if you want to defend chucky, instead of "attacking the attacker", which is clearly not pro-town.

[Mirth]

I love how you ignore my comments and the fact that I caught you in a lie and blatant attempt at buddying, Nur.

[nureins]

I told clearly that I would ask first the townie. Now the scum

First and foremost, Chuck's claim. He claimed Nur and then backtracked.

Ridiculous. He included a smile when putting my name. He was just avoiding to provide info about his partner, which is typical when you are pressured. However, he is giving info in any case with his attitude...

Now he is avoiding you. After we signalled how he was your doggie, now he is avoiding to mention you. More signals. I am more and more confident with my observation.

While it is possible he claimed this because Nur was on his back, and not just because he gave up and tried to ruin the game (some people have outted their scum partners without reservations), it is very possible that he is telling the truth that Nur is in fact his partner.

hahaha really ? If you want to convince us of this idea, explain first why I outed him so openly. Second, why his reaction is as it is. Notice how HE CHANGED HIS WAY. He told us he felt unable to defend more and told us he was scum due to MY PRESSURE. Later, he is again "playing", trying to confound us and giving hints and blabla, you know, that is called WIFOM.

Additionally, look at Nur's early attacks on him. Nur's attacks on Chuck at the beginning are trying to link him to me.

False, I was not trying to link you. He was playing behind you. He was a very noob scum being protected by his master. And we are gonna see it soon.

Furthermore, Nur's early "case" against me never sat well. He said it was to start discussion, but I don't think I buy this. He admitted not getting a complete mod-voting meta on me after I questioned him about it, but he also said even if he had, he wouldn't have used all of it, just the parts he cited.

Of course, because it was not a case against you but a way to start discussion and generate vote movement and scum shaking. NOTICE HOW MY CASE ON YOU IS TOTALLY UNRELATED TO THIS POINT, BECAUSE THIS WAS NOT A CASE ON YOU. And how my random vote immediately moved to a dej vote for his easy-wagon on you.

As is his current attempt to buddy up to Caf, who, to be honest, isn't putting forth an obvtownie game. He is not being scummy, yes, but my no means obv.townie.

No buddying. I already said you are 95 per cent scum. I am very confident and do not need extra scumhunting. If anyone else provides something significantly different that make me change my opinion, do not worry, I will do and start my scumhunting again. Who did start the wagon on Chuck ? who has pressured him ? you ? no hehe...not you....but me. So do not worry, I will hunt if needed. But i am so convinced now that no need...

Lastly, look at the way that he has been responding to me since Chuck's claim. He is twisting my words around. Even though you clearly understood what I meant by my questions about Seb and Chuck (especially since I spelled it out that I highly doubt they are partners before questioning you), he is trying to assert that I am trying to get Seb lynched instead of myself. This is out and out lying. I have stated time and again that it's between me and him for day 2, not Seb. So I ask you to read over his play again.

False. You were just ambiguously discussing on other players to try to make pressure out of you in day 2.

It is gonna be very easy if the decision is between you and me. You helped mafia, I outed mafia. Not a bit. I was aggressive and clearly against mafia. Say whatever you want. I have also a case against you if chuck is mafia. You have no connection of chuck with me...oh yes, you have one connection, I outed him !

[ChuckNorris]

For a townie, read caf, he played very well too.

Did I?

Of course, game's not over just yet so we can't make final judgments with total confidence. I'm eager to get on with things, though.

Hey anyone, can you tell me what I need to do better at being Mafia?

Honestly, your over-reaction to suspicion is what did for you. You drew attention to yourself with unnecessary aggression towards nureins and his cases, and you still weren't exactly done for until you decided to tell us all you're scum. People are going to suspect you in any game of mafia you play, and you have to deal with it.

Ok thanks. But untill then you didn't really suspect me?

[nureins]

Ok thanks. But untill then you didn't really suspect me?

I have to think about it. I am not sure if Mirth hide you well, or you played better at the beginning. But of course, you started to rush with time, and you were too close to your mafia mate...

[The Fancy Mr Fancy]

Can you describe which of my attacks to chucky is a scumtell ?
Can you describe which of my attacks to Mirth is a scumtell?
Thanks.

i said nothing about your attacks being scumtells, can you please explain from where in my post you drew such conclusions

Chuck and Mirth were using the fact that Seb was a very inexperienced player. Especially the second. Please tell me which of my questions are unnecessary and where is the confusion. I drove my own wagon to Chuck. Chuck is scum. CONFUSION ? ha

you provided your own examples of unneccesary questions (see first quote in this post)

My confidence on Chuck is 99 per cent. And I guess that for everybody around is above 90 per cent. If you have a different opinion, please share it with us. Comment my case, defend chucky and so on and so forth.

Second, my confidence on Mirth is 95 per cent.

Do you really need to express your confidence to the percentage?

The fact that I have a fair confidence in this case is because I analyzed deeply the case and found lot of symptoms. I am not SURE. I am just pretty confident, with very very very high probability. If you are not, please share with us WHY, and in WHICH POINTS of my analysis I am wrong. Ill be delighted to discuss them.

No matter how much you "analyze deeply" and "find symptoms" such high levels of suspicion at this stage are still frankly ridiculous in my opinion.

fancy wrote:

While I admire Nur's analysis and his commitment I wish he were doing something more useful with it.


Such as what ?? Again, you have not given any point to support this view.

Such as keeping your analysis concise, to-the-point and impersonal rather than dresssing it up with laughable metaphors like "master" and "doggy".

Now, it is you who is not waiting for day 1. Lets see if chucky is scum. Then tell me about. Again, I did a clear case. Go and answer it if you want to defend chucky, instead of "attacking the attacker", which is clearly not pro-town.

I don't understand this comment, this is not so much twisting words as inventing them. As far as I'm aware at no point in my post did I suggest that you deserved to be voted for at this early stage and I definitely didn't defend Chuck. In fact, the only reason I didn't hammer Chuck was that I felt it would be unfair when we don't have a full game, regardless of how confident I am of his guilt.

[seb456zig]

hmm,

FoS:Nureins

You seem to be completely sure (regardless on what you said on your persentage post) of Mirth being scum, and you've even convinced people to vote for me if Mirth is innocent.(Caf19). If you're so sure on Mirths guiltyness, why do you need me as a bounceback?

Unvote:Chuck

because he still has valuable information that we need. If you want to kill our only scorce of actual knowledge, go ahead. But I don't want to be part of it.

@Chuck: Why did you claim Nureins as your Scumbuddy? Why did you claim scum?

HoS:Chuck

(Obviously)

[nureins]

\ If you're so sure on Mirths guiltyness, why do you need me as a bounceback?

In this game you have never certainties. By scumtells received:

Chuck 99
Mirth 95 if chuck scum.

But then there is a 5-10 per cent of probability that we fail somehow...if this is the case, that I consider very rare...from scummiest to less...

Seb
Dej
(the other player)
mr. A
fancy
caf

This does not mean that I consider you scummy. And I dont think there is a need of day 3, as I am mostly convinced of mirth. But I share my opinions to people. Think a bit, imagine Chuck and I are scum. Then I would know that you are townie. Mirth was wagoning you and I could just let her convince Mr. A and others that you were scum and lynch you. And I decided to drive the wagon to chuck ??? what for ?? to kill my mate and try to resist 2 or 3 more rounds alone with the possibility of a cop investigating or a doc saving my victims ?? Do you really think so ?? Think about it...

[caf19]

and you've even convinced people to vote for me if Mirth is innocent.(Caf19).

Eh, does this mean that I've been convinced to lynch you after Mirth? I don't remember agreeing to vote for you or Mirth on subsequent days, actually. Can you explain?

Unvote:Chuck

because he still has valuable information that we need. If you want to kill our only scorce of actual knowledge, go ahead. But I don't want to be part of it.

You do still want to lynch him today, right?

[Mirth]

Hi, sorry for disappearing for 2 days. Life stuff came up. Will read/respond later. Caught up on the easier backlog games first.

[Mirth]

Bah, totally wasnt expecting this weekend to eat up all my free time. Have a bunch of stuff I need to take care of. Apologies to you all

I'll be V/LA until Tuesday

sorry about this. Posting this in all my games