Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[VisMaior]

vote: Mana_Ku

just because.

[VisMaior]

I dont think second guessing the mod, or trying to figure out the setup is productive.
That said, forbiddan seems very keen on people FOSing a lot.

[VisMaior]

Unvote

FoS: Darox

I don't like how you're accusing someone of something that he does every single game.

I dont like how you defend someone seemingly unconnected to you.

unvote, vote: hp[leaves]

[VisMaior]

In my experience, pointing out illegitimate attacks is something townies tend to not do so early. Lets see wether FOSes really do anything here.

FOS: armlx

[VisMaior]

This thread fails at beeing interesting so far.

[VisMaior]

Me? What for?

[VisMaior]

Also, the whole Kinetix-armlx interaction bothers me for some reason.

[VisMaior]

Its more of a gut feling, really. I have the impression of unsincerity.

"SSK lurks a lot"
"Let him lurk first in THIS game, before lynching him"
"I realize, I was more commenting on how you said he would be scummy if he active lurked, rather then just worthless and null."
"Oh Im so sorry I unintentionally shed bad light on lyou! You are an honest man indeed! May I lick your private parts?"
"No worries, I intentionally did so, so you are not scummy at all. Go ahead. Lets lynch Cybele, Btw"
"Yessire, indeed!"


On second tought, maybe I`m reading too much into it.

[VisMaior]

Vis: I'm glad on second thought you don't find the conversation as scummy, but did you really need to phrase it the way you did? Manners please.

No offense meant in the first place. I was just trying to convert my reading of teh whole thing.

game. I want them to come forward and tell me why I shouldn't kill them right now

"Come forward so I can kill you!"
Err... Do I have to point out ... Nah.

[VisMaior]

I think Nat is neutral at best. Dont think it would fit to be a town role.

Also, Im with whomever noticed the "bus" slip.

unvote, vote Kinetic

[VisMaior]

Kinetic, your failure to understand the difference between a wincondition claim and a fraction/race name does not bode well for you. And of corse, the guy you wanted to bus.

[VisMaior]

Ehh? I dont think its necesary for everyone to claim the faction name. BUt it would be enlightening if you would do it.

[VisMaior]

Or both. Enlighten me again.
1 So you say: wincondition name=faction name
2 We say: tell us faction name
3 You say: ok if everyone does
4 We mixup wincondioon with faction name, we tell you: we wont claim winconditions, and you tell us the town faction name plz.
5 Goto 1.

6 I say: ok we dont want to massclaim, we want you to claim tough.

Where did I miss the point?

[VisMaior]

I find the timing of RandomGems posts very suspicious. I can imagein a role along the lines of "ill post your fakeclaim in thread if $condition".

[VisMaior]

Does he think the mod is faking

Well, I dont think this was the action of the mod at all. There are 2 options:

1. someone has the ability to make the mod post someone elses PM
2. RandomGen has the ability to make the mod post a fake pm

And the timing suggests, it could very easily be Nr. 2

[VisMaior]

Hm. I kinda can see where Nat is coming from.
Can we say "Army of light" is town?

[VisMaior]

OMG! I go for two days, and you guys fill 5PAGES with stuff!
Let me catch up...

[VisMaior]

It is just a big circle guys. We're all hunting each other and in the end the scum will win. We must ignore these win conditions and work toward the Army of Light win condition.

This. This is exactly my toughts.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!

I propose a race claim. I want to know exactly who everyone's race is. I cannot tell you exactly why I want this. Not yet. But I will tell you this: I have no intention of hunting people specifically of their race. I realize this is similar to my WC claim from earlier, but now that I have all the facts, I'm figured out this game and I'm pretty sure I've broken it, I just need a little more information to put my plan into action.

I PROMISE to reveal my entire plan immediately after the race claim, but I need to have the claim before I reveal this final part.

Er, what? That final part better be good.

Kinetic, a full and unfettered claim from you would help people decide whether they want to follow your plan.

This.

If this plan is accepted, and this is required from the majority of the other players, I will provide a full claim and not just a race claim.

Fine.

The claim requires participation from everyone to work dybeck. If the majority of the town agrees to claim, will you claim?

If he doesnt, we simply lynch him. Its that easy.
[quote="dybeck]I don't think it will work whether I claim or not. Scum will just fake claim now that we've made it so easy for them.

I don't see the point of the claim other than the fact that you think you've broken the game, despite the fact you know nothing of scum's abilities that could be aided by a mass claim and the fact that the mod is experienced and highly unlikely to have made it so easy.

And we have no way of knowing whether you're right or wrong, since you won't tell us the plan.

Furthermore, one of my win conditions is an anti-faction win condition, so declaring which one it is just makes me a target for nightkill. Which doesn't help me or my faction.

So no, overall, I'm not going to go along with your mysterious, inadequately-informed plan. On Day 1.

Does anyone have a reason to support the plan other than blind faith that Kinetic has actually broken the game? [/quote]
Good point, but didnt he say he has extra bits? What harm can it do to claim races, if we are willing to abandon racial WCs?

blablastuff

I am tending to believe Nats claim.

I personally lose nothing by this. (Although town may get screwed...)

So you arent town then?

.9999999 does not equal 1

oh, but 0.99999... does!

stubborn stuff

My guess is dybeck is either scum, or is loosing a lot by raceclaiming.

As people die we'll learn their race. What will happen when Centauri find that, its true that the town is losing, but if they find ONE MORE NARN they can win? What will happen when any race does that? What if this boils down to a race war? Keeping the races secret, that is what this will become. Doing a race claim when there is an imbalance of power is what this will become. While the races are all balanced is the ONLY time a race claim can have any effect. Once there is a death, everything goes out the window unless we stop it, here and now.

QFT. This is just logical.

If we ignore the race stuff until late in the game, we will focus back on scumhunting, not in racehunting.

No. People dont work like that. If a race gets thin, people will start hunting. We need a consensus that we kill of those who do that, if caught.
Its like: "Why did you hammer X? He wasnt scum!" "Oh, race WC. Not scum here." All too easy.

Moderator Note: Your moderator made an error when sending Darox his role PM (due to sending an older version of the PM). I apologize for the confusion. - Tar

BAD SHIT! LOL!
To recap:
Pacman says scummy stuff. Im still worried about RandomGem, he is still my best bet. Dybeck is stuborn to he point of scummyness. Nat is almost surely neutral.
Kinetic sounds very town to me now. Im all for his plan.

unvote

I think Dybeck should start.

[VisMaior]

Also, I agree with pretty much with everything in VisMaior's post except for the part where he says that RandomGem seems scummy. Why is he scummy?

2 things: 1. timing of his post after his role revealed, suggesting he sent the reveal order 2.

[quote="VisMaior

I personally lose nothing by this. (Although town may get screwed...)

So you arent town then?[/quote]

also.

UNVOTE Kinetic

And noch:

Kinetic is receiving an Official Warning for Jackassery (trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage) due to his questions about the exact wording of win conditions. He's extremely lucky that I'm not modkilling him on the spot. - Tar

Ehh?Does this confirms Kinetics townness or what?

[VisMaior]

I think pacman is neutral. He is acting protown, but his reluctance to do the plan suggests to me he has problems with raceclaiming.

[VisMaior]

Antiprod. When do we do the raceclaim thing?

[VisMaior]

Also, dont do "next is bla OR bla" as that gives an excuse for both to not do it.
and

vote dybeck

[VisMaior]

B5 here

[VisMaior]

dybeck and randomgem

[VisMaior]

Hi!

Kinetics theory has too many assumtions for my taste. Where do you take your numbers? Outguessing the mod are you? That is often counterproductive.

[VisMaior]

Hi! This is an automated antiprod message. Please do not reply. The author of this message shall read the thread. LATER. Fisrt, he has to read the other game he is in, wich will need his full atention (and computer time) for today. Expet a more sensible message LATER. In two days.

[VisMaior]

OK I need to reread.

[VisMaior]

What I dont see is why the perfect balnce theory should stick. I have seen very feew (if any) games where each player had thhesekind of similarities.

[VisMaior]

I think its safer to lynch the claimed gunsmith than the claimed cop tough.

[VisMaior]

I`m still suspicious of RandomGem even over TheInternet. I like lynching a claimed scum better.

vote MacavityLock

[VisMaior]

YESS!

[VisMaior]

I disagree with the setup beeing overly good. I think it sucked for the following reasons:

It was near-impossible to get to non-racial win by virtue of survivors.

Let me explain: I tought, and still think, that the first of my WCs was near impossible.
Therefore I went with the survivor WC. Which meant I had to use my kills to bring ANY race WC closer. Im sure the other survivors tought the same. With 2 killing survivors it was a race to not let any WC close enough to 2 surviving memnbers. Not really feasible.